Supporting Dedicated Brands

[Ces1um]

but I do think we should support companies that seem like they have a future in film.

Oh- and also those that support photrio as well!

 

[wyofilm]

If I could reasonably predict which company will be around the longest, suit my photographic needs, etc., I might pick film based on loyalty, in part. However, with the exception of Fuji, I do not have a crystal ball to tell me which to buy. Therefore, I buy based on personal preference. Regarding Fuji, I just can't believe they will stay in the film business, which of course will be a tremendous loss to lose their remaining films.

I was looking at roll film on the BandH site and noticed that the default sort is by 'best sellers' (which I hadn't noticed before). It was surprising to me. Here are the top five ... plus the top Fuji (1-16 are mainly Kodak with some Ilford).

1. Kodak Portra 400/ five pack in 135
2. Kodak Portra 400/ five pack in 120
3. Kodak Ektar 100/ single roll in 135
4. Ilford HP5+/ single roll in 135
5. Kodak Tri-X/ single roll in 135
...
17. Fuji 400H/ single roll in 135

Questions/observations:
1. Who is shooting all that portra 400? Whoever you are keep it up!
2. High speed film (400 and above) is king.
3. Color ranks higher than b&w.
4. See 2. and 3., then why is Fuji 400H so low in the rankings?
5. As much as I want Ferrania to succeed, they have picked a difficult market for themselves.
6. 120 isn't dead. Yippie!
7. Kodak is selling some damn film - too bad both Kodaks are run by imbeciles.

 

[David T T]

Questions/observations:
1. Who is shooting all that portra 400? Whoever you are keep it up!

Me! Portra 400 and color grade in post is it for me shooting people, and it is by far my favorite for night landscapes. I'm not a Kodak fanboy, though, its just that Portra 400 is the most capable film technically... it's easy to make it work.

I don't pick based on the supposed "dedication" of the company. It's totally the look or potential look of the film. Recent favs also include hp5+, T-Max 400, Neopan Acros, and Fomapan Classic 100, not to mention my stockpiles of discontinued fp-100c and Ektachrome 100VS. I do my best to support as many current films as possible but it's all about the look.

 

[Ces1um]

I was looking at roll film on the BandH site and noticed that the default sort is by 'best sellers' (which I hadn't noticed before). It was surprising to me. Here are the top five ... plus the top Fuji (1-16 are mainly Kodak with some Ilford).

.

The tinfoil hat I wear sometimes makes me think that this "sort by popularity/best sellers" could be a marketing device. The film they want people to buy more of could be placed at the top of the list. The only reason I say this, and I fully acknowledge that I'm probably wrong, but there have been times I've sorted items based on popularity only to see the strangest, least attractive options placed first on the list. Items so out of place that I'm sure nobody buys them. Again, likely I'm just being delusional but I wouldn't put it past some websites at least.

 

[RattyMouse]

That P30 is a beautiful film though...

I've shot a roll but havent developed it yet.

 

[RattyMouse]

Isn't the more fundamental question.... how many manufacturers and film types do we need? I think that there are today still too many manufacturers and too many film types to make good business and thereby sustain analog photography towards the future.
I tend to agree with the OP that we should support manufacturers that are committed to analog photography. But... how many? And which ones? And which film types and formats?

I used to think Fujifilm was the one company that would end up standing alone and keep film alive. Then they started cutting bone instead of fat from their film line. It's a shame because Fujifilm is a well run company that is 100% financially stable. Kodak, as another poster already wrote, is run by imbeciles who are very clear in showing everyone that film is not a core product for them and that they'd rather be out of the market entirely. Kodak is on very shaky ground and so they go and re-launch a film that is part of the fastest declining part of the film market (E6). Brilliant.

 

[sepiareverb]

I typically don't shop for film based on price. I shoot the films that deliver the output I desire...

+1 from me. I have a range of films I like and use for particular situations/times of year. I do try out new films that come along, but have not added one to my palette for a while now, even as a few have vanished from production.

 

[Cholentpot]

I shoot what is cheapest. Don't care about the companies really. Expired? Short ends? Something from China? I'm on it, I don't care. I don't feel loyalty to any company, I doubt they feel any to me.

In a perfect world I would choose Kodak because they are of the some national origin as me and they do make some fine films. However Ilford has shown their dedication to film over the years, I just have not liked their films.

 

[Jim Jones]

For many decades I relied on Kodak film and enjoyed their product information and general guides. They had three of the all-time great films: Kodachrome, Kodak High Speed Infrared, and Tech Pan. They also made good lenses and shutters. Alas, even the mighty can fall. Volume users may benefit from researching alternate brands. We who try to make every shot count can afford the best film available, whoever makes it.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Supporting Ilford is good, as they have proven to provide first rate materials on demand.

I also take this a bit further, as a lab I can purchase from my distributer cheaper than lets say Downtown Camera.. But I now purchase from Downtown and local suppliers of product to give them
business , show them that I care, also this allow them to purchase more inventory and always have on hand which saves me from stocking inventory on the multitude of products I use. This may sound silly to the accountants out there
who need to win each time, but without your local camera stores things will get much tougher to get what you need...

Penny wise Pound foolish, support your local businesses , I am willing to take a bit of a $$ hit to make sure product is in my town and it does indeed give part time and full time jobs locally.
As a small business owner I see us getting kicked around by the big operations on line , I say shop local if you can, it may be your neighbour you help.

I should point out I mention Downtown Camera but there are many fine small operations serving the photographic community.. with out them you will be dealing with Best Buy and Costco.

 

[Ces1um]

Supporting Ilford is good, as they have proven to provide first rate materials on demand.

I also take this a bit further, as a lab I can purchase from my distributer cheaper than lets say Downtown Camera.. But I now purchase from Downtown and local suppliers of product to give them
business , show them that I care, also this allow them to purchase more inventory and always have on hand which saves me from stocking inventory on the multitude of products I use. This may sound silly to the accountants out there
who need to win each time, but without your local camera stores things will get much tougher to get what you need...

Penny wise Pound foolish, support your local businesses , I am willing to take a bit of a $$ hit to make sure product is in my town and it does indeed give part time and full time jobs locally.
As a small business owner I see us getting kicked around by the big operations on line , I say shop local if you can, it may be your neighbour you help.

I should point out I mention Downtown Camera but there are many fine small operations serving the photographic community.. with out them you will be dealing with Best Buy and Costco.

I totally agree here- and it's what I usually do. However, my local store doesn't stock 4x5 so I have to order it online no matter what.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I totally agree here- and it's what I usually do. However, my local store doesn't stock 4x5 so I have to order it online no matter what.

I have absolutely no problem as I do order from B&H when the locals cannot keep up . I just found that going to the smaller guys, in person is actually quite fun these days as most of them know me and make
me really feel welcome , before hitting the mastercard... with B&H though quite polite hitting the mastercard is pretty much the extent of the relationship

Though Melody at B&Sullivan will gab with me for as long a we can, they really get to know their long distant clients.

 

[RattyMouse]

I buy only from B & H. The local store is 30% or more higher in cost. I'm not paying that.

 

[Craig]

I buy only from B & H. The local store is 30% or more higher in cost. I'm not paying that.

Interesting how markets differ. I can buy local at or slightly cheaper than B&H's price and they have 4x5 and 8x10 Ilford in stock.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Interesting how markets differ. I can buy local at or slightly cheaper than B&H's price and they have 4x5 and 8x10 Ilford in stock.

I agree 30 % is not what I see from the stores I use.

 

[faberryman]

My local store charges about the same as B&H. They just rarely have what I need in stock.

 

[twelvetone12]

Prices in my nearby stores can be as much as 3-fold what I find online. I got ripped just once...

 

[RattyMouse]

Interesting how markets differ. I can buy local at or slightly cheaper than B&H's price and they have 4x5 and 8x10 Ilford in stock.

A local store that can beat B & H's prices? What is the name of this store?

 

[Craig]

A local store that can beat B & H's prices? What is the name of this store?

The Camera Store in Calgary. Remember also that for me to buy from B&H I have to convert from USD to CAD, add in shipping (unless I buy over $100 USD) plus customs duties etc.

An example: Ilford HP5, 4x5, 25 sheets. The Camera Store: $48.71, B&H $37.50USD, which using XE.com's mid market rate and adding 2.5% for my credit card forex fee comes to $47.71. So a dollar cheaper, but I also have to buy more to qualify for the free shipping. It's also not a 10 min drive away!

Delta 100 in 120: TCS $7.52, B&H $7.57 (on a straight currency conversion basis)

Ilford Rapid Fix (500ml): TCS $8.89, B&H $9.54

For the things I use, it's close enough that I wouldn't bother ordering from B&H. Liquid chemistry also adds enormous cost to ship cross border.
Plus the owners of the local store are friends, it's always nice to drop in for a chat and pick up the supplies I need.

 

[wyofilm]

The Camera Store in Calgary

You are fortunate to have such a store close by.

 

[Craig]

I think so too. Check out their youtube channel, it's always interesting; although mostly digital now.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqpOf_Nl5F4tjwlxOVS6h8A

 

[RattyMouse]

The Camera Store in Calgary. Remember also that for me to buy from B&H I have to convert from USD to CAD, add in shipping (unless I buy over $100 USD) plus customs duties etc.

An example: Ilford HP5, 4x5, 25 sheets. The Camera Store: $48.71, B&H $37.50USD, which using XE.com's mid market rate and adding 2.5% for my credit card forex fee comes to $47.71. So a dollar cheaper, but I also have to buy more to qualify for the free shipping. It's also not a 10 min drive away!

Delta 100 in 120: TCS $7.52, B&H $7.57 (on a straight currency conversion basis)

Ilford Rapid Fix (500ml): TCS $8.89, B&H $9.54

For the things I use, it's close enough that I wouldn't bother ordering from B&H. Liquid chemistry also adds enormous cost to ship cross border.
Plus the owners of the local store are friends, it's always nice to drop in for a chat and pick up the supplies I need.

You have to pay for Forex? Wow....most US cards cover that cost. I lived in China for 6 years and didn't pay 1 penny of currency conversion costs, despite charging thousands upon thousands of dollars. B & H also pays all shipping costs in the US at a much lower price point, $25 or $30 which I hit easily.

 

[wyofilm]

their youtube channel,

Great Channel. One of my favorites, by far.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Well, it seems like fuji will be gone soon.

Possibly. I have my own very reliable means of keeping tabs on what Fujifilm is doing.

I think that there are today still too many manufacturers and too many film types to make good business and thereby sustain analog photography towards the future.

Partially right, but a bigger problem is being ignored. There are actually too few "photographers" using film in all formats, and this decline has been active since 2000-2001. Manufacturers are still tugging at the forelocks of the halcyon years of photography prior to 2000 (count them!). So they produce all these varieties of film for a market that is nowhere near as strong as it once was. No, a bunch of amateurs using 20 rolls a year does not constitute a market. But there are probably professionals out there spending $20,000 or more annually on film — they are the real movers and shakers that have the influence. There might just be 3 of those here on Photrio...

Then there are formats. Why do you think Fujifilm discontinued large format Velvia 50? Because large format is a miniscule section of the market and declining more each year. What was large format like 15 years ago? Boom time, that's what. And magazines paid serious money to have the best of LF photographers' works produced on front covers of magazines. Then...along came digital, and things got so much easier for both the photographers and the magazines. You cannot begrudge publishers from looking at ways of trimming costs, and swapping out analogue for digital brought with it levels of quality and efficiency that were undreamed of just 20 years ago. Anyway, LF isn't alone is losing sex appeal. Both 35mm and 120 have waned very substantially, but again, both those formats are doing better than LF, which is why we still do have reasonably good variety.

Cost is no object to me in procuring and using transparency film, nor to a great many active photographers who make money from their work. But if people here are going to whinge and whine and want Fujichrome products to be priced around $10, then maybe photography is too expensive for them and they should return to playing with their Crayola and butcher's paper.

 

[Arklatexian]

Possibly. I have my own very reliable means of keeping tabs on what Fujifilm is doing.



Partially right, but a bigger problem is being ignored. There are actually too few "photographers" using film in all formats, and this decline has been active since 2000-2001. Manufacturers are still tugging at the forelocks of the halcyon years of photography prior to 2000 (count them!). So they produce all these varieties of film for a market that is nowhere near as strong as it once was. No, a bunch of amateurs using 20 rolls a year does not constitute a market. But there are probably professionals out there spending $20,000 or more annually on film — they are the real movers and shakers that have the influence. There might just be 3 of those here on Photrio...

Then there are formats. Why do you think Fujifilm discontinued large format Velvia 50? Because large format is a miniscule section of the market and declining more each year. What was large format like 15 years ago? Boom time, that's what. And magazines paid serious money to have the best of LF photographers' works produced on front covers of magazines. Then...along came digital, and things got so much easier for both the photographers and the magazines. You cannot begrudge publishers from looking at ways of trimming costs, and swapping out analogue for digital brought with it levels of quality and efficiency that were undreamed of just 20 years ago. Anyway, LF isn't alone is losing sex appeal. Both 35mm and 120 have waned very substantially, but again, both those formats are doing better than LF, which is why we still do have reasonably good variety.

Cost is no object to me in percuring and using transparency film, nor to a great many active photographers who make money from their work. But if people here are going to whinge and whine and want Fujichrome products to be priced around $10, then maybe photography is too expensive for them and they should return to their Crayola and cardboard.

Photographic equipment and supply manufacturers are like any other business, large or small. They offer a product or products fully expecting to make enough PROFIT to continue offering their products. Having worked in retail camera stores in my earlier years, I can tell all of you that the profit margins on cameras, film, chemicals and paper are no where near as high as jewelry, furniture, women's make-up, and other retail items. Either many members of this group don't know this or believe it, but it is true. So don't ever believe. that any manufacturer is making the products we use to help promote "film". They are gambling that enough people will buy enough of their products for them to make a PROFIT. So if you want Fuji or anyone else to keep making something you like, purchase enough for your needs and encourage others to do so, and hoarding large quantities of a particular film might just speed up it's demise.........Regards!