Stop Bath.. How important?

[fotch]

I was hoping that my inclusion of an exclamation mark would show my comment to be in jest. I don't use those silly smiley face thingies. Perhaps I should.


Steve.

My bad:confused:

 

[ZorkiKat]

Stop bath is easy to make. It may be perhaps the easiest photo processing chemical to make with home-found ingredients. Next to water of course. Kitchen or table vinegar (plain, none of the types with herbs or spices added) added 1 part to 4 parts water will make an excellent, reuseable stop bath.

I second Fotch in using stopbath. Quickly and positively arresting development (by neutralisation) is better than just slowing it down or weakening it by just rinsing the developer-laden film with water. No worries of getting more development after the film has left the developer. And the fixer lives longer too.

 

[Niall Bell]

I've used water only as stop bath for film for years with no ill effects. The massive dilution curtails development just as effectively. I use 3-4 changes of water in Paterson tanks.

Niall

 

[Steve Smith]

My bad:confused:

I hate that phrase. Bad is an adjective - you can't own it. :rolleyes::confused:

There, I used them!


Steve.

 

[steven_e007]

I usually use a stop bath.

Last night I developed three 120 roll films together. Usually I only do two at the most. So.... when I come to put the stop in, it eventually dawns on me that my ready mixed 1 litre of stop won't cover the films. Duh! So I used water instead. After very careful comparison of these films against ones where I did use a stop - I can detect no different at all...

The films were Delta 400 in dilute Rodinal, it takes a while. Maybe with a film / developer combination that develops very quickly it might have been different.

 

[ZorkiKat]

I usually use a stop bath.

Last night I developed three 120 roll films together. Usually I only do two at the most. So.... when I come to put the stop in, it eventually dawns on me that my ready mixed 1 litre of stop won't cover the films.

You could have added water to the stop bath solution to increase its volume enough to cover the rolls you developed. It appears that the exact concentration is not too critical. The usual stopbath contains about 25 to 30ml acetic acid per litre. The concentration will be lowered if more water is added, but nonetheless the solution will still be acidic enough to neutralise the developer carry over.

 

[Rick A]

I use my stop at half the recommended dilution for film. This is not being cheap, rather a means of arresting development quickly, and at the same time, attempting to avoid pinholes or other supposed reactions and imperfections attributed to stop bath.I also give a single rinse between stop and fix, to lessen contamination of my fixer(TF-4). The use of stop for printing does have proven benefits,( unless using a running water bath in place of stop) as the water in a tray becomes laden with developer and turns into a weak developer itself, and carries over to the fixer tray. IMO, this could be more of a problem with FB paper than with RC, but still a problem none the less.

If I were using a rented DR, I would definitly supply my own chems, pre-mixed (as much as feasable)and shun their supplied chems.

 

[Ian Grant]

I've used both water, citric acid (smells less) or a weak solution of fixer as stop.
Birger A.

The one thing likely to cause a problem is using weak fixer as a stop bath, you run a very high risk of dichroic fog & staining.

I haven't used a stop-bath for years with film, but always use one for prints.

Ian

 

[dancqu]

I've Dropped Stop

I use film and paper fixer Very dilute one-shot.
The Fresh little loaded with silver very dilute fix
washes out quickly and with little water.
No stop needed. Dan

 

[Dan Henderson]

I hate that phrase. Bad is an adjective - you can't own it. :rolleyes::confused:

There, I used them!


Steve.

Steve, I could not agree more. Why would anyone deliberately use poor grammar and risk being compared with Sarah Palin, who recently used the word "refudiate," an apparent combination of repudiate and refute. She then defended herself by saying that Shakespeare liked to make up words also.

 

[5stringdeath]

I only use stop with prints. Have only used water with film since the introduction of modern "rapid" fixers. Also if you ever get pinholes in your film due to stop bath, you'll stop using it too Hasn't ever happened to me, but I've seen it happen.

 

[srs5694]

FWIW, I've used both water rinses and stop baths, with no obvious differences; however, I've also never done a scientific side-by-side comparison.

One point that's come up a few times here but deserves clarification is the claim that stop bath can extend the life of fixer. This is true of acid fixers, but not all fixers are acid. Some, such as TF-3, are alkaline rather than acidic, and an acid stop bath will, if anything, shorten their working lives. (Of course, you could use an acid stop bath and then rinse with water to avoid contaminating the fixer.) If the rental darkroom in question is providing chemicals, you may want to find out what it's using for a fixer, and research its needs, before you bring in your own stop bath.

 

[Grif]

Fotch and Steve: It's not you guys,,, I'm on several lists and so far today about 1/4 of them have gone in the ditch at some level. I didn't start the day off at work real well either ;-) Must be some rays from the yet to be discovered ufo's in orbit upsetting the natural order of things. (or the fact that the days are now quite a bit shorter and summer's on the way out) ;-)

 

[JBrunner]

I have used water as a stop bath almost my entire career. I have also used alkaline fixers since PMK. Works fine for me. I use a two tray procedure, one as the "stop" and one as a rinse. All kinds of people make all kinds of arguments for and against. I like having one less chemical to deal with, and I make some pretty nice negs, so what ain't broke I don't fix.

 

[Jeff Kubach]

I have use both over the years, of course water is cheaper with no ill effects.

Jeff

 

[bdial]

I use water for stop bath with film, have been for many years, works good. I agree with Jason, one less chemical to manage and mix makes life easier.

Way back when, some people argued that the dilute developer that results increases shadow detail. I doubt that it does to any practical degree, but I've never done a test.

 

[photoncatcher]

I've been shooting, and processing my B&W film for more years than some of you have been alive. I've never used any thing but water between the developer, and fix. I usually do 2 to 3 fast rinses, and have never seen a problem. My years as a USAF photographer, and lab tech, a watwer rinse was the norm fpr all films.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thats odd, my Handbook for Photo Lab Processing, AFM 95-11 suggests a Stop Bath or Hardening Stop for processing in section 3.

In my years as a USAF photographer, we followed that.

PE

 

[MattKing]

I use stop bath for both film and paper (mostly RC).

I re-use fixer with film. For paper, I rely on the indicator in the stop bath to tell me when it is time to replace the stop bath, and to either replace the fixer or at least check its remaining capacity.

I acknowledge that a running water rinse will work with both film and RC prints, but I don't believe that it works quite as well (due to extension of development times). I also value stop bath's ability to extend the useful life of my fixer.

If and when I print on FB paper, I insist on using stop bath.

By the way, I am currently using Ilford Hypam fixer. In the past I've used Ilford Rapid Fixer and Kodak Rapid Fixer. My developers are HC-110 for film, and Kodak Polymax for paper.

 

[Ian Grant]

By the way, I am currently using Ilford Hypam fixer. In the past I've used Ilford Rapid Fixer and Kodak Rapid Fixer. My developers are HC-110 for film, and Kodak Polymax for paper.

Ilford Rapid Fixer & Hypam are essentially almost the same, Hypam has additional buffering for use with a Hardener. Aside from that they are to all intents and purposes inter changeable.

Ian

 

[MattKing]

Ilford Rapid Fixer & Hypam are essentially almost the same, Hypam has additional buffering for use with a Hardener. Aside from that they are to all intents and purposes inter changeable.

Ian

Understood. I've always considered the three (Hypam and the two Rapid Fixers) as acidic fixers essentially interchangeable for my purposes. I'm currently using Hypam because it is easily found here in the 5 liter container that I like. I probably would have stayed with the Kodak Rapid fixer if it was possible to buy it in the medium size quantity I like without the accompanying hardener.

 

[Reinhold]

A bit more (a lot more) on stop bath...

http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/003T9c

Reinhold

www.classicBWphoto.com

 

[L Gebhardt]

I like the alkaline fixers for faster washing, so no stop bath for me. I get just as much "consistency, repeatability, and control" as when I used stop bath. Plus I haven't had a pinhole in years from mixing it up too strong.

 

[Steve Smith]

I can't believe all this anti-stop bath nonsense lately. Please use a mild acid stop bath. If you are after consistency, repeatability, and control, remove as many unnecessary variables as possible. Stop bath is the most precise way to immediately arrest development.

If someone wants to use water as a stop for their film then that is their choice. If they always use the same technique and take the same time to empty the developer and pour in the water then they will have the consistency, repeatability and control which you imply is lacking.

I'm not sure that a few seconds variance in arresting development is that big an issue especially when you have development times approaching ten minutes or so.


Steve.

 

[lynettemax]

Thanks so much everyone for the fast responses!
I really appreciate everyones input. I guess besides water being a good replacement for stop bath its cheaper on my college loans!