Statement from Harman Technology regarding recent sale to Pemberstone Ventures Ltd.

[Tom Kershaw]

Hasn't 'ILFORD' in whatever coporate form been owned by a private equity company in the past?

Tom

 

[Xmas]

I'm always suspicious of VC companies as they have the unenviable reputation of 'get in, make cash, get out' often to the detriment of the original company. On the other hand, let's be optimistic. They can smell money, which is why they got in in the first place. If there was no viable business model they wouldn't be in it. They can also bring investment. If they think that investing can bring greater returns, they will do it, which is perhaps what is needed. Ilford is a very strong brand. What other film manufacturer still has two emulsions in two formats still in the high street (my local small town has XP2 and HP5 in 35mm, sometimes FP4 too, and HP5 in 120 in the Boots shop)? My worry is that some unprofitable niche products would go because they are kept on despite making losses 'just for the love of it' by a committed board who use the products too. If the VC board members are sensible they will look at the community that uses Ilford products, which let's face it, are wonderful, and understand what we use, why we use it, and also understand that on the whole we are a grumpy lot who feel threatened and alienated due to an ever shrinking pool of increasingly expensive products. On the other hand, we are a dedicated bunch who love what we do and will carry on doing it until the last emulsion rolls off the production line. Then we'll start making our own. In our sheds. Let's hope they start some dialogue with the community, which Simon was so good at doing, but let's also hope they have a thick skin and can take it on the chin.

Good shot but not in bull.
Ilford's lease is to a site the site may not be good houseing for noise, but is excellent for light industry like film or other things...

PV may have no interest in Ilford by itself... Apart from current profits.

They may want to get a good price for an eventual sale, by selling things at greater profit, but that is only a small % of their gambit.

 

[Xmas]

I'm always suspicious of VC companies as they have the unenviable reputation of 'get in, make cash, get out' often to the detriment of the original company. On the other hand, let's be optimistic. They can smell money, which is why they got in in the first place. If there was no viable business model they wouldn't be in it. They can also bring investment. If they think that investing can bring greater returns, they will do it, which is perhaps what is needed. Ilford is a very strong brand. What other film manufacturer still has two emulsions in two formats still in the high street (my local small town has XP2 and HP5 in 35mm, sometimes FP4 too, and HP5 in 120 in the Boots shop)? My worry is that some unprofitable niche products would go because they are kept on despite making losses 'just for the love of it' by a committed board who use the products too. If the VC board members are sensible they will look at the community that uses Ilford products, which let's face it, are wonderful, and understand what we use, why we use it, and also understand that on the whole we are a grumpy lot who feel threatened and alienated due to an ever shrinking pool of increasingly expensive products. On the other hand, we are a dedicated bunch who love what we do and will carry on doing it until the last emulsion rolls off the production line. Then we'll start making our own. In our sheds. Let's hope they start some dialogue with the community, which Simon was so good at doing, but let's also hope they have a thick skin and can take it on the chin.

My local boots (~0.5 statute mile) in addition carries a lomo triple pack 'earl gray' (?) which is repackaged Tmax400 - I am advised by Lomo sales person in Carnaby street shop, he detected from oldy world Fed I that I might be home processing, lomo sales are good.

So Kokak has c41 and Tmax in my local shop.

 

[RobC]

My local boots (~0.5 statute mile) in addition carries a lomo triple pack 'earl gray' (?) which is repackaged Tmax400 - I am advised by Lomo sales person in Carnaby street shop, he detected from oldy world Fed I that I might be home processing, lomo sales are good.

So Kokak has c41 and Tmax in my local shop.

http://www.johnlewis.com/browse/ele...09cfa84&s_kwcid=124x279090&tmad=c&tmcampid=52

films cameras are on the up even if they are lomo.

 

[Xmas]

http://www.johnlewis.com/browse/ele...09cfa84&s_kwcid=124x279090&tmad=c&tmcampid=52

films cameras are on the up even if they are lomo.

On open carriage in the street:-

Lomo, pola, instax 30%
Oldy non plastic SLRs, TLRs, etc., 60%

But females tend to conceal cameras in sling bags so there may be a large sampling bias.

 

[BrianShaw]

You must live in a very enlightened locale. On a recent visit to the Los Angeles County Fair I saw 2 cameras: mine and a guy from China's digital SLR. The other 10,000 people were taking plenty of pictures but with their phones.

 

[alanrockwood]

I seem vaguely to recall, didn't Forte end their business, in part to order to make way for a real estate development? If so, this could be a deje vue all over again.

 

[winger]

As for new film users, one of the guys who designed the Wanderlust Travelwide 4x5 said that many of the backers of the project are new to film entirely, not just new to 4x5. That's got to mean something, too.

 

[analoguey]

Actually a very good idea.. Deverre (Odessey Sales) make a digital enlarger that would accept silver paper which btw is compatible with digital exposure. Combine that expertise and now we have something of note for young users who have never used a film camera.

This type of acquisition by Pemberton would be an outstanding signal to the marketplace.

Here's an idea -Pemberton could add clarity to this themselves. Go out and buy Devere and possibly make a few new affordable enlargers series. :-D

Sent from Tap-a-talk

Thanks, I was thinking it would be a 'vertical integration' kind of acquisition(which the pink papers seem to like), if they did do it - utilise strengths/weaknesses of each other. (esply introduction to darkroom processes/enlargement).

Does not seem practical, enlargers are still free to take away here, I even got a free NOS 75mm lens, trying to get into a glut market seems incautious.

/Snip
The PV company are very small there only interest need be real estate.
The Harman factory existence on the large site an advantage of local employer.
Harman have just lost three directors after buy out, pretty normal.

I was putting up an idea, but I was also referring to conditions here(in India).
Enlargers aren't so easily available here! When new students for visual arts are being told to pick up enlargers, apparently their choices are meoptas that have have been in distr. storage (I checked them up, I was better of buying a rustbucket of a focomat - I didn't but that's another story). I know of people within the 20-35 age who would like to have an enlarger but don't want to run around digging everywhere for it - established name backed with service wouldn't be something they'd shy away from.

/Yes admittedly India-specific story but given that Ilford did start distributing here, they know they've a market here.

Still, long shot idea.


Sent from Tap-a-talk

 

[miha]

They used to, it did not sell...

That was the other company, in anoter time.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

As for new film users, one of the guys who designed the Wanderlust Travelwide 4x5 said that many of the backers of the project are new to film entirely, not just new to 4x5. That's got to mean something, too.

Not exactly a good first film experience for them. Yikes!

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Considering some of the time and resources I've spent keeping older gear going, I can see the value of new darkroom kit with proper support back-up.

Tom

 

[winger]

Not exactly a good first film experience for them. Yikes!

It may not have been a great experience for the time table of manufacturing, but early reports on the camera itself are pretty good. There are photos of and by them on LFPF.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Statement from Harman Technology regarding recent sale to Pemberstone Venture...

It may not have been a great experience for the time table of manufacturing, but early reports on the camera itself are pretty good. There are photos of and by them on LFPF.

The issue is resilience of interest in film cameras. I have more than a handful of friends, who having viewed some hip Tumblr site with Lomo, Holga or Diana photos think how neat they are and buy one. Typical is one friend who bought her Diana from Restoration Hardware. After she told me I even gave her a few rolls of film to start her off. Its now three years later. She never shot a single roll in the camera. And other friends I know who shot 2-3 rolls in their Holga, got them developed, and the cameras have sat ever since. Having bought into that Travelwide fervor (and it seemed it almost went viral there at one point) and then all the delays, unfortunately many probably moved on...

 

[xo-whiplock]

Thanks, I was thinking it would be a 'vertical integration' kind of acquisition(which the pink papers seem to like), if they did do it - utilise strengths/weaknesses of each other. (esply introduction to darkroom processes/enlargement).




I was putting up an idea, but I was also referring to conditions here(in India).
Enlargers aren't so easily available here! When new students for visual arts are being told to pick up enlargers, apparently their choices are meoptas that have have been in distr. storage (I checked them up, I was better of buying a rustbucket of a focomat - I didn't but that's another story). I know of people within the 20-35 age who would like to have an enlarger but don't want to run around digging everywhere for it - established name backed with service wouldn't be something they'd shy away from.

/Yes admittedly India-specific story but given that Ilford did start distributing here, they know they've a market here.

Still, long shot idea.


Sent from Tap-a-talk

I can appreciate the difficulty to affording an enlarger. Keep in mind that a good wood worker can make a great enlarger. Bellows can be hand made as well. Any metal parts can be sourced like negative holders, rails, lens, and so on. The first step is to find someone that can make up the blueprints/design with the idea of home assembly kit and list of additional parts to order.

 

[Ian Grant]

Considering some of the time and resources I've spent keeping older gear going, I can see the value of new darkroom kit with proper support back-up.

Tom

Which is why Ilford/Harman distribute Paterson products to export markets.

This thread is just as negative as the one closed and for entirely the wrong reasons. I've been using Ilford films & papers, and chemistry as well, since the 1960's, I did start with Kodak Verichrome Pan first by chance.

When I ran a specialist photographic company in the 1970's/80's I visited Mobberley on a few occasions and met senior Managers, Directors, etc (all long gone), I later met some of the Directors who bought the company out of Voluntary Administration quite a few times.

I can't see anything will changed today as far as Iford's continued production of the materials we need. The new(ish) Managing Director Peter Elton was the key Operations Director at the time of the buy-out 10 years ago, and reality is that says it all, continued production of the Ilfor materials many of us rely on.

Ian

 

[Xmas]

That was the other company, in anoter time.

Well a different company stopped actually ~ as Agfa Gervert sold off their Leverkursen factory (2005-6) cheap cause it was not uber profitable maybe? The purchasers gave up and called in administrators.
They were selling APX before and after the exchange of ownership.

One of their finishings was 48m reloads of PET APX400s for survelliance cameras... History from bygone age but large volume.

Adox has just answered the suggestion that they make a 400 ISO film on their new coater that - the market was too competitive - on a concurrent thread.

It is not me you have to convince but the retail trade they have to risk their money.

Mini labs and film cam shops are still disappearing here.

 

[Xmas]

I can appreciate the difficulty to affording an enlarger. Keep in mind that a good wood worker can make a great enlarger. Bellows can be hand made as well. Any metal parts can be sourced like negative holders, rails, lens, and so on. The first step is to find someone that can make up the blueprints/design with the idea of home assembly kit and list of additional parts to order.

Try a kick start if you feel the venture might be profitable but note my last enlarger was free used I had to take it away, and I was given an enlarging lens, NOS by retail shop!
The scanner I use for proofing (it has a live view mode) was 10£ retail (remaindered).

 

[Bob Carnie]

I can't see anything will changed today as far as Iford's continued production of the materials we need. The new(ish) Managing Director Peter Elton was the key Operations Director at the time of the buy-out 10 years ago, and reality is that says it all, continued production of the Ilfor materials many of us rely on. from post 195 Ian.



or another way of saying this. Continued production of the Ilford materials many of us rely on . Rely's on US PURCHASING THE PRODUCT.

I have used their products for as long as I can remember, I still plan on using their products, and I hope the 80,000 members of APUG also support all the Manufacturers by purchasing photographic products, rather than just talking about it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yes, buy more film and shoot more film.

 

[bascom49]

Chill out

Yes, buy more film and shoot more film.

Exactly..

All of us here have a fair investment in film cameras, dark room gear, etc. and are far from dropping out of film photography. We all need to relax, enjoy our cameras and sustain the market by continuing to make images and support our vendors by purchasing their products. If we do our part they will do theirs.

 

[Sirius Glass]

[joking] What! You want us to quit bitchin'? Where is the fun in that? [/joking]

 

[pentaxuser]

I don't suppose your average film user( the few of us who have participated in this thread are not average ) has even registered the change. They buy their stock from stockist X and will continue to do so in what appears to be a steady if not upward trend.

Of course Pemberstone might tomorrow delete most of the range of film, paper, developers etc but having invested a lot of money why would they risk it unless they are not on release from an asylum for dumb and failed entrepreneurs?

The old Harman owners has all their eggs in one basket as the saying goes. This might have made them lean and mean and keen to survive(good) in the Darwinian sense but equally some new blood and new money might mean that the "new Harman" can take decisions on product change and expansion etc that would have been too risky for "Old Harman".

Wasn't it some American in one of his fireside chats who said: "We have nothing to fear except fear itself"

pentaxuser

 

[Xmas]

I don't suppose your average film user( the few of us who have participated in this thread are not average ) has even registered the change. They buy their stock from stockist X and will continue to do so in what appears to be a steady if not upward trend.

Of course Pemberstone might tomorrow delete most of the range of film, paper, developers etc but having invested a lot of money why would they risk it unless they are not on release from an asylum for dumb and failed entrepreneurs?

The old Harman owners has all their eggs in one basket as the saying goes. This might have made them lean and mean and keen to survive(good) in the Darwinian sense but equally some new blood and new money might mean that the "new Harman" can take decisions on product change and expansion etc that would have been too risky for "Old Harman".

Wasn't it some American in one of his fireside chats who said: "We have nothing to fear except fear itself"

pentaxuser

Franklin Delano Rosavelts inaugural address as president 1933...

 

[Sirius Glass]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHFTtz3uucY