Splitting 1000' of 65mm film into 100' spools

[El Barouf]

Hello,

I have been looking for resources on how to effectively split 1000' reels into 100' reels. Namely a process and hardware.
Nonprofit photo club. Group orders of different film stock, and split among members.
A good source on reel cores that fit bulk loaders. (I know, I know... not many bulk loaders for 65mm/70mm out there).
Secure way to package them. Light tight bags? Cans?
Precise measurements so no-one is at a loss. How?

Some will use it as-is, others will slit to roll 120/220 rolls.
Any good source of new backing paper (120) / lead paper (220) ?

Any other tips and tools in splitting 1000' to 100' of 65mm/70mm film?

Thanks,

 

[loccdor]

One way to measure 100 ft would be to wrap the film around a barrel or large cylindrical container of known circumference. You would want to attach upper and lower guides on it so the film remains level. Then count the number of revolutions.

 

[El Barouf]

Thanks @loccdor Aren't revolutions going to change though? The outer edge of the core vs the inner part?

 

[El Barouf]

The center core technically fits this description. on the long run, that could be a method if I can cut that 1st 100'. Then each new core should have the right length.

 

[MCB18]

Hello,

I have been looking for resources on how to effectively split 1000' reels into 100' reels. Namely a process and hardware.
Nonprofit photo club. Group orders of different film stock, and split among members.
A good source on reel cores that fit bulk loaders. (I know, I know... not many bulk loaders for 65mm/70mm out there).
Secure way to package them. Light tight bags? Cans?
Precise measurements so no-one is at a loss. How?

Some will use it as-is, others will slit to roll 120/220 rolls.
Any good source of new backing paper (120) / lead paper (220) ?

Any other tips and tools in splitting 1000' to 100' of 65mm/70mm film?

Thanks,

I use a loader that came with my giant 70mm reels for the process. I’ve calculated how many turns of film I need on a 70mm spool for 50/100 ft.

I bought like 20 70mm spools and cans online and use those, but freestyle sells black bags and you can buy 4x4x3” boxes on eBay. You can 3D print the core, it’s not complex, 25mm diameter with a 8.5-ish mm square hole.

Shanghai in China does offer 120 paper but I’ve used it before and it is not good, better and cheaper to reuse it.

Also slitting 65mm is actually a pretty large pain in the ass so keep that in mind. The last time I slit 100’ 65 mm into 120/220, I ended up with something like 20 feet of waste film from where the slitter jammed and created rough edges and/or film that would be too wide to fit in spools.

Good luck getting the film though, Kodak won’t even talk to me about ordering anything bigger than 16mm unless I can prove that I’m with a production company.

I bought mine for a very steep price from someone on Reddit selling short ends.

 

[loccdor]

Thanks @loccdor Aren't revolutions going to change though? The outer edge of the core vs the inner part?

If you use a cylinder of large enough circumference the addition of each layer of film will become negligible. The cylinder circumference will be 1-2 meters while the film thickness will be a fraction of a millimeter.

 

[MCB18]

If you use a cylinder of large enough circumference the addition of each layer of film will become negligible. The cylinder circumference will be 1-2 meters while the film thickness will be a fraction of a millimeter.

This is an extremely impractical way of doing it. Especially considering that this is a solved problem already. You can find roll length calculators online that give you the number of turns needed given the core diameter, film thickness, and roll length pretty easily. Here’s the one I use.

 

[Kino]

Split reels and rewinds for motion picture editing; but that will be expensive. A footage counter be used to measure the footage, but in the total dark, it would be rather hard to read the counter! I guess you could rig-up a click-wheel that would make a noise on every revolution of the sprocket and count those as you wind; that might work.
65mm gear is hard to find and expensive, but that's the optimal way to handle it...

Split reel - Sprocket School

Neumade Film Measuring Machine - Sprocket School

 

[loccdor]

extremely impractical way of doing it

Maybe slightly impractical. It's a mathematics problem that was solved several thousand years ago (Pi), so no great mysteries here. Unless you really need millimeter precision... but you're cutting up the 100 ft into individual rolls, some gets wasted regardless. I wouldn't stress.

 

[MCB18]

Honestly, guys, you’re way overthinking this. You don’t need anything fancy, you don’t need split reels, you don’t need rewinds. Really, you can do this with a 3D printed jig (or a wooden board and some nails or screws), and a 3D printed handle and cores. On a 25 mm core, with color negative movie film, 110 turns is slightly more than 50 feet, 175 turns is slightly more than 100 feet. Is it exactly 100 feet? no, but unless you’re willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a 65 mm footage counter, or spend a lot of time to DIY something with an Arduino and a Hall effect sensor, you aren’t gonna get any better (and that won’t be perfect either).

 

[Kino]

Just giving options.

You don't need a Leica to take a picture but...

 

[Cholentpot]

Just wind until you think it's enough. That's what I do with 35mm. I wish I had this problem with 65mm.

 

[MCB18]

I wish I had this problem with 65mm.

I do lol. I still have 200 ft of the stuff… thinking about just keeping the rest and selling some of it off as 120, even though that’s more of a PITA

 

[koraks]

You don’t need anything fancy, you don’t need split reels, you don’t need rewinds. Really, you can do this with a 3D printed jig (or a wooden board and some nails or screws), and a 3D printed handle and cores.

Yup.

This is what I use for 35mm. I count turns like @MCB18 using a similar calculator.

@El Barouf welcome aboard!
Sorry, no answers as to the backing paper other than 'scavenging old film rolls'. Ask your camera club members to save the backing paper of the film they shoot, then reuse that. Spindles/cores etc. can be 3D printed.

 

[MCB18]

FWIW I do actually make my own 220 paper, but that’s only because I want it to look nice since I sell it. It’s a bit of work, but I made a template that prints on a single page and cut that into 63-ish mm strips, and the ink doesn’t come into contact with the film so no worries about wrapper offset. You absolutely don’t need to do this, you can just cut up 120 paper to the right lengths.

The red paper is from a giant roll from Astrum. I don’t make my own 120 paper.

 

[El Barouf]

I use a loader that came with my giant 70mm reels for the process. I’ve calculated how many turns of film I need on a 70mm spool for 50/100 ft.

I bought like 20 70mm spools and cans online and use those, but freestyle sells black bags and you can buy 4x4x3” boxes on eBay. You can 3D print the core, it’s not complex, 25mm diameter with a 8.5-ish mm square hole.

Shanghai in China does offer 120 paper but I’ve used it before and it is not good, better and cheaper to reuse it.

Also slitting 65mm is actually a pretty large pain in the ass so keep that in mind. The last time I slit 100’ 65 mm into 120/220, I ended up with something like 20 feet of waste film from where the slitter jammed and created rough edges and/or film that would be too wide to fit in spools.

Good luck getting the film though, Kodak won’t even talk to me about ordering anything bigger than 16mm unless I can prove that I’m with a production company.

I bought mine for a very steep price from someone on Reddit selling short ends.

Thank you. I would not plan on slitting, but I know other members would likely consider it. It may mean only those using 65mm/70mm directly may order though. That sucks if that's the case. If I can order from them, maybe other folks here would be interested in splitting I guess. I'll cross that bridge if I get there.

Just wind until you think it's enough. That's what I do with 35mm. I wish I had this problem with 65mm.

I would do that if I was filling 70mm cassettes. But I prefer winding the core into a 100' reel instead. I suspect everyone would prefer a 100' reel. Or am I in the left field here?

This is an extremely impractical way of doing it. Especially considering that this is a solved problem already. You can find roll length calculators online that give you the number of turns needed given the core diameter, film thickness, and roll length pretty easily. Here’s the one I use.

Great link, thanks!

 

[El Barouf]

I do lol. I still have 200 ft of the stuff… thinking about just keeping the rest and selling some of it off as 120, even though that’s more of a PITA

Depending on what film stock it is, I may be interested.

 

[El Barouf]

Yup.

This is what I use for 35mm. I count turns like @MCB18 using a similar calculator.

@El Barouf welcome aboard!
Sorry, no answers as to the backing paper other than 'scavenging old film rolls'. Ask your camera club members to save the backing paper of the film they shoot, then reuse that. Spindles/cores etc. can be 3D printed.

I like the setup. I would need to figure the distance between the 1000' reel and the 100' one, load them, and a way to measure the length of film to confirm the number of turns are indeed accurate. 3D printed? If you have a link it would be great.

Thank you!

 

[El Barouf]

FWIW I do actually make my own 220 paper, but that’s only because I want it to look nice since I sell it. It’s a bit of work, but I made a template that prints on a single page and cut that into 63-ish mm strips, and the ink doesn’t come into contact with the film so no worries about wrapper offset. You absolutely don’t need to do this, you can just cut up 120 paper to the right lengths.

The red paper is from a giant roll from Astrum. I don’t make my own 120 paper.

Where would new members get the original paper though? Just thinking that someone may be new, and not have developed their own yet, so if the first thing they do is roll their own film, they may not have 120 paper to being with. Or, they could be coming from other formats, like LF or subminiature! (not sure how one goes from 16mm to... oh, I want to shoot medium format now).

 

[koraks]

to confirm the number of turns are indeed accurate

You could err to the side of safety and factor in one spare/short roll from your 1000' foot masters so that the 9 people who go for the full 100' never fall short.

Yes, 3D printed, but sorry, no link; this is local on my machine. Besides, this is for 400' to 100'; the larger wheel won't hold a 1000' reel. Moreover, this is for 35mm and not 65/70, so would be of little use to you. But feel free to steal the concept! It's based on 3 ball bearings I picked up at the local hardware store. I designed the plastic parts around those bearings. The bearings friction fit into the printed parts.

The Achilles' heel on my setup is the central shaft that holds the smaller reel. As you turn the wheel, there's always some lateral force. If you design something like this, make sure the design can withstand that pull force. I've had to redo that part at some point - or perhaps I reinforced it with glue or something. Can't remember; I'd have to dig it up. I only use it occasionally.

Another thing worthwhile considering is that a 1000' wheel is obviously fairly large and it'll wobble considerably unless your rig is either very sturdy, or somehow supported as it turns. It's these little things - a little wobble here, a snag there - that make the spooling process a breeze, or a big frustration. I never bothered to do several iterations on this design, but if I were to do it again, I'd make some improvements in the areas mentioned.

Be sure to support those 1000' wheels well as you take them out of the can. Once a reel like that starts to fall apart, you'll notice that getting 1000' of film back onto a spool in the dark is no fun - and damage to the image surface is virtually guaranteed. I always ensure to handle the reels only an inch or so above a table; never hover them over the floor. It takes just a little slip to turn hundreds of $$$ of film into interior decorations.

 

[MCB18]

Where would new members get the original paper though? Just thinking that someone may be new, and not have developed their own yet, so if the first thing they do is roll their own film, they may not have 120 paper to being with. Or, they could be coming from other formats, like LF or subminiature! (not sure how one goes from 16mm to... oh, I want to shoot medium format now).

I would highly advise people that have never shot medium format film before not to make their own medium format film. It is a much more complicated process than bulk rolling 35 mm, and it is a lot easier to screw up. Starting off in 120 is already hard enough, the gear is expensive and the film is unfamiliar. If you’re new to the format, you really don’t need to be adding the stress of trying to make sure that you did your film right. I made a big long post about how to do it on here, it’s in my signature, I would strongly advise anyone interested in doing this to read that fully.

Depending on what film stock it is, I may be interested.

It’s 250D, and I’m selling 50 foot chunks for $100. Feel free to send me a message. More information can be found here.

The Achilles' heel on my setup is the central shaft that holds the smaller reel. As you turn the wheel, there's always some lateral force. If you design something like this, make sure the design can withstand that pull force. I've had to redo that part at some point - or perhaps I reinforced it with glue or something. Can't remember; I'd have to dig it up. I only use it occasionally.

Lazy Suzan.

 

[koraks]

Yeah, good one