Speed vs Crown Graphic in 2 1/4 by 3 1/4

[Paul Howell]

Just got a 2 1/4 by 3 1/4 Speed Graphic, labeled Speed, but no focal plan shutter, always thought the Speed models came with a focal plan shutter and Crowns were without? No rangefinder, will use as a MF view camera. I bought a Busch Pressman but too difficult to change the lens, the Busch has much more movements, the Speed has just rise.

 

[Sirius Glass]

2 1/4 by 3 1/4 film availability is very limited. Look at 4"x5" cameras which are only a bit larger and heavier.

 

[Digger Odell]

Depending on the back, almost all graflex, horstman, mamiya rb backs should fit. No need for cut film. Speed should have a focal plane shutter. AFAIK

Here is a way to convert any 2x3 press back into a graflock type back. http://www.buggrit.com/pressman.html

 

[Sirius Glass]

Depending on the back, almost all graflex, horstman, mamiya rb backs should fit. No need for cut film. Speed should have a focal plane shutter. AFAIK

Using roll film in a press camera or view camera makes no sense. That is just dragging around a heavier than necessary camera to shoot a roll of film.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Paul, how deep is the body, front to rear? I just measured a 2x3 Crown and a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. Approximately 2 1/2" and 3", respectively.

People have sometimes removed Speed Graphics' shutters.

If y'r new sort-of-treasure has a spring back instead of a Graflok, you can use an insertion type roll holder. I use 2x3 size (they were also made to fit 3x4 and 4x5 cameras, the larger ones won't fit a 2x3 camera) Adapt-A-Roll 620s.

 

[Paul Howell]

I have both a 4X5 Crown and Speed, got my Speed in 1966, bought it a Navy surplus auction. I have a couple boxes of Foma 400, have an order in for HP5, intent is shoot Zanyish, want a small camera that I can pack along with a few lens, maybe 6 film holders, fit in cargo pants. May strip the leather off and refinish the teak for a topical look, or just leave alone. Next is a Topcon Super 90, 65, and 150 or 210, Kodak or Wollensak will not cover any movements. The Speed will weigh about 1/2 or less than what Mamiya Universal but more flexible than my Kodak Tourist.

 

[Paul Howell]

Paul, how deep is the body, front to rear? I just measured a 2x3 Crown and a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. Approximately 2 1/2" and 3", respectively.

People have sometimes removed Speed Graphics' shutters.

If y'r new sort-of-treasure has a spring back instead of a Graflok, you can use an insertion type roll holder. I use 2x3 size (they were also made to fit 3x4 and 4x5 cameras, the larger ones won't fit a 2x3 camera) Adapt-A-Roll 620s.

Mine is 2 1/4 so its a Crown? W hich is what really wanted, did not want the extra weight of the focal plan shutter.

 

[shutterfinger]

Sometimes the trim gets damaged and replaced and the lens board slide locks get swapped out without regard to the name stamped on them.
https://graflex.org/manuals/23-Pacemaker-Speed-and-Crown-Graphic.pdf
https://graflex.org/manuals/45-Pacemaker-Speed-and-Crown-Graphic.pdf

 

[mgb74]

2 1/4 by 3 1/4 film availability is very limited. Look at 4"x5" cameras which are only a bit larger and heavier.

You're right about the sheet film availability. And what is available is only about 10-20% cheaper than 4x5. But you're wrong about "only a bit" larger and heavier. Here's my 2x3 century graphic in a hip pack.

 

[ic-racer]

Yes, I'd consider getting a rollfilm back. Rollfillm back with a medium format view camera is a near ideal situation. The main film I use in my 2x3 film holders is Instax instant film.

I used to have a 4x5 Crown. I did not want the FP shutter.

 

[Paul Howell]

I have 2 Mamiya Universals and a Press 4 lens and 4 backs, 6X9 and 6X7, the intent of the baby speed or Busch was to make a poor's man's MF field camera with some movement so I can shoot sheet film using a Zoneish approach. The Busch has a lot of movement sadly the lens board is screwed in, difficult to change in the field. The Baby Graphic seems to be a Crown body with a Speed front standard, only front rise, no tilt or swing. Next steps are to get a Horseman 90mm super and looking into a brighter glass focusing screen.

 

[Dan Fromm]

The Baby Graphic seems to be a Crown body with a Speed front standard, only front rise, no tilt or swing.

All 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics, including the Century, have the same front standard. They all have backwards tilt plus rise. The two are intended together to be used to center a w/a lens' optical axis in the gate and make it perpendicular to the film when the front standard is on the outer bed rails and the bed is dropped. They all have minimal shift, limited by the outer bed's struts when the front standard is between them, and dangerous to use because of the chance of introducing unintended swing when the standard is shifted.

If you want what a 2x3 view camera does, just get one. Used ones are around and so are very expensive new ones.

 

[takilmaboxer]

Using roll film in a press camera or view camera makes no sense. That is just dragging around a heavier than necessary camera to shoot a roll of film.

On the contrary, roll film backs offer great flexibility and can be changed quickly in the field. That's why I love my 2X3 Graphic!

 

[Paul Howell]

All 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics, including the Century, have the same front standard. They all have backwards tilt plus rise. The two are intended together to be used to center a w/a lens' optical axis in the gate and make it perpendicular to the film when the front standard is on the outer bed rails and the bed is dropped. They all have minimal shift, limited by the outer bed's struts when the front standard is between them, and dangerous to use because of the chance of introducing unintended swing when the standard is shifted.

If you want what a 2x3 view camera does, just get one. Used ones are around and so are very expensive new ones.

I like the compactness of the Speed, here are a couple of images, maybe you can help with ID. I don't see any way to tilt the from standard, the rails are channels, cant be moved forward or back. It seems to be a speed design with the focal plane shutter.

 

[Dan Fromm]

I like the compactness of the Speed, here are a couple of images, maybe you can help with ID. I don't see any way to tilt the from standard, the rails are channels, cant be moved forward or back. It seems to be a speed design with the focal plane shutter.

Paul, your Speed is a Miniature Speed Graphic (that's the official name), not a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphics.

 

[btaylor]

Odd, my Baby Speed Graphic has the focal plane shutter. Did someone swap out the front standard from another camera? Is there a Miniature and a Baby? I assumed they were the same thing. I think my manual refers to the Baby Speed.

 

[shutterfinger]

The Crown Graphic did not come into existence until the Pacemaker series of Graphics in 1947. Prior to that only the Miniature Speed Graphic based on the Anniversary Speed Graphic was made. Someone has likely removed the FPS from Paul's camera to lighten it.
https://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/miniature-speed-graphic.html
https://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/pacemaker-crown-graphic.html

 

[Paul Howell]

Mine is also 2 1/2 inches deep, the same a crown. I don't see drill holes that would indicate that a focal plane or rangefinder had ever been installed.

Found this image of a miniature speed with the focal plane shutter. Not that it matters, it is light, not as much movement as I would like, otherwise will make a nice filed camera.

 

[shutterfinger]

Paul, the photo you fond has the back on upside down.

A lot can happen to a camera body since a 1939 to 1946 production run. And Graflex would custom make a body for you for $$$.

 

[Paul Howell]

Did not notice, upside down as well. I think your right, my version has scale focus for a 90mm, on the miniature speeds and crowns that are listed in the Montgomery Ward's 1952 Photography Cat have 101 lens. So a striped down body with somewhat wide angle for a 6X9, interesting.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Mine is also 2 1/2 inches deep, the same a crown. I don't see drill holes that would indicate that a focal plane or rangefinder had ever been installed.

Found this image of a miniature speed with the focal plane shutter. Not that it matters, it is light, not as much movement as I would like, otherwise will make a nice filed camera.

For the second and I hope last time, you have a Miniature Speed Graphic. The camera in the picture in the post I quote here has the shutter winding key, slit width selector and shutter release of a Miniature Speed Graphic. It is a Miniature Speed Graphic, not a Pacemaker Century Graphic.

 

[Paul Howell]

The last picture is an image I picked up from the web, my first images I took are of my camera, no winding key, no selector, I've owned a 4X5 speed for over 50 years, I know a focal plane shutter. I might be just confused, did Graphic ever make a sell a Speed model without a focal plan shutter? All the examples of miniature speeds I found have had focal plane shutters. The body looks like the picture of a 2 1/4 X 3 1/4 Crown I found in my 1952 Montgomery Wards Catalog, but the front standard is a Speed.

 

[Dan Fromm]

The last Graphic model introduced was sold as the Super Graphic and Super Speed Graphic. 4x5 only. The difference between the two was the SSG's normal lens, which was mounted in a Graphex shutter than went to 1/1000.

All other Speed Graphics have focal plane shutter. The Pacemaker Crown Graphic is the only Graphic without a focal plane shutter.

The name "Speed Graphic" on the camera whose picture you showed us in post #1 above is on the upper lens board slider. It is as it should be. That camera is a Miniature Speed Graphic (official name). If it has no focal plane shutter (not focal plan), the shutter has been removed. I'm out of this discussion, there's no point wrangling with a person whose mind is firmly made up.

 

[shutterfinger]

Dan, somewhere in the Speed Graphic section of Graflex.org helpboard is a post stating that a Pacemaker Speed Graphic 4x5 with a Graphic 1000 shutter and no focal plane shutter was available late in the game before the Speed was discontinued and was called Speed 1000. Very few were made. Its serial numbers might be in book 2 of the numbers.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Charles, thanks for the correction.