Some RA-4 Reversal success today...

[dE fENDER]

Just checking your method. As for me it seems adding bromide will not help after 10 g/l, but I found some improvement with traditional method - adding 0.12 g /L sodium thiosufate (and 12 g/L of bromide).

 

[Photo Engineer]

Try chloride. The paper is basically an AgCl emulsion.

PE

 

[dE fENDER]

PE, how do you think - will the first developer temperature have some effects on color balance (I'm using it at room temperature)? Cause after adding thio I received a great colour shift - lights are too yellow, darks are too blue...

 

[Photo Engineer]

The yellow layer is on the bottom so hypo affects the top first shifting color to become yellow. This is not a given. Solvents are not good in AgCl emulsions and cause a lot of side effects. Temperature is not very significant IMHO. I've run it from 20C to 40C with small change.

PE

 

[dE fENDER]

My results - e100vs / endura metallic
paper scan (not too much representative - scaner couldn't correctly scan gloss metallic, the lights are almost here in reality)

film scan


Thanks bvy for method and PE for answers.

 

[jtk]

The prints must have been on FB paper then to eliminate mottle. All the prints on RC that I saw were mottled in uniform color areas.

As for flashing, it may fix some contrast problems but not color error and that is only one problem.

PE

Flashing easily adjusted "color error" for routinely disciplined home laboratory, or better professional labs.

Mottle was a demonstration of carelessness.

 

[jtk]

[QUOTE="Photo Engineer, post: 2042463, member: 6399" Temperature is not very significant IMHO. I've run it from 20C to 40C with small change.

PE[/QUOTE]

Careless temp control may be the reason for "mottle" experienced by several here.

Drum processors and shallow chem in trays are two sources of temp control problems.

 

[jtk]

Interesting idea, and I had considered it. But I think this takes me even further down the road of exhausting the developer in hard to reproduce ways (for reasons you mention). As far as oxidation, it's nothing that I'm interested per se -- except perhaps insofar as it contributes to (or contributed to) the final result. But it would be the hardest to reproduce consistently of all the variables described, so I'm happy to eliminate it from the equation if possible.

I seem to be getting desirable results from quickly exhausting fresh developer with fresh paper. I just need to figure out what additives and in what amounts take the place of fresh paper.

The above, especially the "consistency" problem can be explained by use of drum processor or parsimonious chems in drum or shallow tray.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have a 16x20 reversal RA4 print on my wall that shows little or no mottle. I have run hundreds of experiments and they show no correlation in level of mottle due to what is mentioned here such as tray chemical level or temp variations. I've used both tray and drum. It is more sensitive to FD time and type.

As for Cibachrome color and tone scale, there is an inherent problem with making reversal to reversal prints. The entire process is flawed and can be shown visually, spectrophotometrically and mathematically.

PE

 

[bvy]

Try chloride. The paper is basically an AgCl emulsion.

PE

Do you mean black and white or color paper? I'm trying to simulate a developer that has processed several sheets of black and white paper. I've added bromide alone, but it's still not quite the same as if I manually exhaust the developer with fresh paper. Is chloride perhaps the missing component?

 

[dE fENDER]

Not sure that it will take place in reality, but as Multigrade is PQ developer, so after processing some paper some of HQ will be converted to hq monosulfonate, which is quite soft developer compared to hq. So the answer could be a custom build developer from scratch with phenidone & hq monsulfonate instead PQ (like e-6 first dev).

 

[dE fENDER]

And I made some tests with sodium chloride - at 15 g/l the contrast is too high, compared with 15 g/l potassium bromide.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Both B&W and color paper emulsions are either high chloride or all chloride. During use, this goes into the developer, so I suggested using chloride salts to simulate seasoning. It may take a mix of chloride and bromide to do the trick. IDK. I'm just spinning out possible answers.

PE

 

[bvy]

Both B&W and color paper emulsions are either high chloride or all chloride. During use, this goes into the developer, so I suggested using chloride salts to simulate seasoning. It may take a mix of chloride and bromide to do the trick. IDK. I'm just spinning out possible answers.

PE

Thanks. Would you suggest starting with potassium chloride or sodium chloride?

 

[RPC]

Fuji CA II, (and perhaps all other Fuji CA papers), seems to have some fundamental design differences between it and Endura paper that make it more unsuitable for RA-4 reversal than Endura. I am believing more and more that these problems may not be solvable.

I have observed that the silver dmax of the CA II paper is lower than Endura paper. I don't know how much of a difference that makes with RA-4 reversal, but the Fuji paper acts as if it cannot handle the high contrast/saturation of a slide for this purpose, but easily handles the lower contrast of a negative, while Endura paper can handle both.

As far as the first developer goes, I have tried altering the pH, changing the levels of bromide/chloride, changing dilutions, using soft developer formulas with and without hydroquinone, but it seems impossible to get good contrast and low crossover in the reversed print with Fuji, unlike Endura.

I recommend any experiments be done with a color chart if possible, or at least a gray scale to help with minimizing crossover and lowering contrast. You may get one print of a given subject matter that appears to look good, but that one print may not show existing color, contrast or crossover problems that would show up in other prints and a gray scale.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thanks. Would you suggest starting with potassium chloride or sodium chloride?

It does not matter as long as you know the molar equivalents you are using if you decide to change.

As for CAII, it has been stated here that there may be problems with it in a reversal process, but others report great success. There is certainly evidence that something is going on and may be solvable.

PE

 

[RPC]

"Success" is a relative term. But kudos to anyone who has gotten results with it as good as I can get with Endura.

 

[Berri]

Sorry to bump up this old thread...I was reading it and somebody seems to suggest that mottling could be connected to the paper base.
I just saw an interesting video on YouTube of a guy that does reversal RA4 with Fujiflex which is PET base. Maybe Fujiflex is the answer?
I also noted that he uses id62 which i believe is similar to ilford PQ

I am currently looking to buy some fujiflFu for normal RA4, if I get hold of some I will definitely give a go at reversal printing to!

 

[RPC]

Please let us know of the results if you do it. I had great results with Endura paper but more mottling and poor dynamic range with Fuji CA II paper, possibly due to the fact that the silver dmax of the CA II was less than the silver dmax of the Endura paper, as indicated in post #65 above. Fujiflex may be designed differently.

 

[ludwighagelstein]

Very little in the US. The bleach bath tended to delaminate the RC support from the edges inward. In fact, we never saw the paper version.

PE

It still does. The paper that reacts the most to bleach is FUJI DPII lustre, followed by Crystal Archive Supreme and then Crystal Archive matte. DPII Velvet doesn´t react to bleach very much in a sense of solving the RC base from the paper. I experimented a lot with selectively bleaching prints with strong belaches of all sorts. Maybe try FUji Velvet for the solving and mottling issue.