Snowy Alpine Scenes: General Thoughts

[Alan Edward Klein]

Incident light meters are really the way to go in the snow. Unfortunately outside of places like APUG Photrio, most people never heard of them.

Well you could use a gray card and reflective meter.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

pretty much every Sekonic meter (what the OP is using) i've seen has the option for taking incident readings.

But he didn't say if his Sekonic also took reflective readings.

 

[GregY]

Alan, pretty much any Sekonic will..... even the 398 if you use the lumigrid

 

[GregY]

Alan....it doesn't matter what camera he's using....

 

[Paul Howell]

As noted without knowing what film, camera, metering or if OP has a hand held meter it is only possible to give very general answers. So in general, if a older camera with an average meter, as already recommended use palm of free hand as a gray card, second assume that with lots of snow figure that the scene will be underexposed by 1 stop. If camera has a spot meter meter the main subject, such as hiker, skier, building, tree ect. If newer camera with matrix metering assume that the meter will correctly read the scene. If a hand held meter with incident mode, meter the scene with meter at the subject facing the camera. If OP think he/she thinks she/he has a very important shot, bracket.

 

[GregY]

As noted without knowing what film, camera, metering or if OP has a hand held meter it is only possible to give very general answers. So in general, if a older camera with an average meter, as already recommended use palm of free hand as a gray card, second assume that with lots of snow figure that the scene will be underexposed by 1 stop. If camera has a spot meter meter the main subject, such as hiker, skier, building, tree ect. If newer camera with matrix metering assume that the meter will correctly read the scene. If a hand held meter with incident mode, meter the scene with meter at the subject facing the camera. If OP think he/she thinks she/he has a very important shot, bracket.

" (I’m taking a sekonic)"......

 

[Vaughn]

Yes he did...something you don't have in New Jersey....

I believe Alan meant what, not where...

Some good advice all around. This image was found while wandering around in the snow in the upper Mono Lake basin a bit snow-blind -- I ended up with the darkcloth over my head, peering thru a slit. Almost stepped on the skull -- I had to get at least this close to exclude my bootprint.

Pentax Digital Spot readings: snow 18, skull in sun 17, darkest on skull 14. Given one extra stop exposure for bellows extention (as insurance, and certainly did not hurt). So exposed at 16 plus 100% for bellows (f64 @ 1/4 sec), 150mm lens, TMax100. Developed normally in HC-110.

The photo is a decent reproduction of the 16x20 print (from 4x5 negative, 1991) printed on Grade 3 Ilford Gallerie.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Alan....it doesn't matter what camera he's using....

Correct, most cameras do not have incident meters.

 

[GregY]

I believe Alan meant what, not where...

Some good advice all around. This image was found while wandering around in the snow in the upper Mono Lake basin a bit snow-blind -- I ended up with the darkcloth over my head, peering thru a slit. Almost stepped on the skull -- I had to get at least this close to exclude my bootprint.

Pentax Digital Spot readings: snow 18, skull in sun 17, darkest on skull 14. Given one extra stop exposure for bellows extention (as insurance, and certainly did not hurt). So exposed at 16 plus 100% for bellows (f64 @ 1/4 sec, TMax100). Developed normally in HC-110.

The photo is a decent reproduction of the 16x20 print (from 4x5 negative, 1991) printed on Grade 3 Ilford Gallerie.

Nice photo Vaughn.... I thought it was pretty clear the OP was going to the Alps and was seeking " advice for metering in high glare snow scenes." & he was taking a Sekonic meter along....

 

[Sirius Glass]

Well you could use a gray card and reflective meter.

Most people do not walk around with an 18% gray card in their pocket, but they usually have the palm of their hand available, even if it is in a glove.

 

[Tylaar]

In bright, snowy mountainous conditions most light meters will tend to underexpose, unless you're using a spot meter and placing the snow on Zone VII - Zone VIII. If you're not using a spot meter, I would advise giving a bit more exposure (in the range of a stop or two) over your meter reading. I don't use incident meters so, maybe, someone with specific experience will jump in here.

Good luck and enjoy your trip!

Many thanks from a snowy london!

 

[Tylaar]

Take the light readings off the palm of your hand and that will be close enough for most exposures. Sometimes you may need to have your palm in the shade if the subject is in the shade. If you use a general light meter reading, you will only get the contours of the snow and everything else will be silhouetted.

Really useful tip. Thanks!

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks, Greg. Has the 'what' question been answered yet? (metering for transparency film vs B&W neg would require different approaches).

But my example does show that sunlit snow scenes are not necessarily high contrast, and minus development is not a given.

OP -- greetings from a rainy Humboldt! Great image!

 

[Tylaar]

You have time to do a quick test roll...bracket and pick the best neg.

Love the graghics on theback of my Rollei!

Lols……a reasonable excuse to look up the cost of Rollei’s in Austria!

 

[Tylaar]

What kind of Sekonic? Incident, spot, reflective?

It can do both …608

 

[Tylaar]

Sorry...I assumed the OP developed their own film. If not, my advice is still good, it was just was asked for weeks too late.

Totally my habit to take a new film or whatever on a unique trip and just wing it (with a few decades of background knowledge and experience).

Yep I’m taking a tank with me and my little light box so I will be scanning negs whilst away!

 

[Tylaar]

The OP neither said what camera he is shooting or what kind of meter nor what kind of pictures he's shooting. So the answers he gets will be non-specific as well.

My bad! I was non specific!

 

[Tylaar]

If the snow if close, I use my Sekonic both in incident and reflective mode with snow. In reflective mode, I get close to the snow, making sure that's all I'm getting (essentially making my meter equivalent to a spot meter reading). If there is texture in the snow, I put it in zone VIII (opening up three stops from the reading), if not, I go to zone IX (opening up four stops from the reading). I compare that to the incident mode reading, just to make sure.

If the snow is far, just part of the general scenery but not dominant, I just go with the incident reading. If you will do landscape, i.e., snowy mountains from afar, I would suggest a yellow filter. You'll get better tonal separation between the sky (slightly darken) and the snow. Snowy scenes with washed-out sky don't make for very appealing photos.

With high contrast snowy scenes, you also have to make sure you use the right developer. For example, stock D-76 or Xtol risk blowing your highlights, so best to use a compensating developer.

I was packing ID-11….. I’ll do some digging on comp developers…

 

[Tylaar]

It would have been more helpful if we knew his camera type, film, and type of meter.

And we do have snow in New Jersey, if not mountains. Beach too.

An old Canon New F1…..but I prefer to test my sekonic 608 …..

 

[Tylaar]

Thank you all so much for your replies on this! Some really helpful ideas!!!

 

[Vaughn]

Yep I’m taking a tank with me and my little light box so I will be scanning negs whilst away!

Great! And you will be able to try a different exposures and see how things scan! There use to be developing chemicals made in pill form. Dissolve a pill and developer! Another pill, fixer! I have been on months-long trips without feedback on how everything is working...makes one a little nervous...especially since it has bit me in the bum.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Lols……a reasonable excuse to look up the cost of Rollei’s in Austria!

The word on the street is that Hasselblad work in Austria too.

 

[Tylaar]

I believe Alan meant what, not where...

Some good advice all around. This image was found while wandering around in the snow in the upper Mono Lake basin a bit snow-blind -- I ended up with the darkcloth over my head, peering thru a slit. Almost stepped on the skull -- I had to get at least this close to exclude my bootprint.

Pentax Digital Spot readings: snow 18, skull in sun 17, darkest on skull 14. Given one extra stop exposure for bellows extention (as insurance, and certainly did not hurt). So exposed at 16 plus 100% for bellows (f64 @ 1/4 sec), 150mm lens, TMax100. Developed normally in HC-110.

The photo is a decent reproduction of the 16x20 print (from 4x5 negative, 1991) printed on Grade 3 Ilford Gallerie.

That’s really useful. Thankyou. It’s started snowing here in london this evening so I may yet get to practice before I head off!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Gray cards are basically useless in high contrast snow scenes where you need to know right where the highlight and shadows themselves need to land on the overall film curve. First of all, select a film with a long contrast range like TMax or perhaps Foma 200. Second, unless you've practiced with this film under similar lighting before, and have already learned to develop it properly, expect a rough learning curve with a lot of bellyflop shots. With roll film, you can experiment with bracketing, but that's no guarantee. Metering? Unless you have a real spot meter and know how to use it, then you really need some experience. I've shot extreme contrast mountain and ice scenes for decades in various formats up to 8x10. It's not all that hard once you get used to it. But expect to waste quite a bit of film until you do.

I can't address specifics unless I know exactly what kind of film and development you have in mind, and the actual manner of metering.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Sirius - yep. Hassies work great on the streets of Austria, cause nobody can trust em in the mountains. Real climbers need to know which direction is up, and which down, and how can you do that without a view camera where everything you look at is properly upside down to begin with?