Snowy Alpine Scenes: General Thoughts

Alex Benjamin · Dec 11, 2022

Tylaar said:
I was packing ID-11….. I’ll do some digging on comp developers…

ID-11 is fine. Stock solution will tend to blow highlights, so not recommended if you want texture in your snow and if you have a high contrast range. You can go 1+1 or, even better, 1+3, depending on the film. At 1+3 dilution it becomes a compensating developer. I've used its close cousin, D-23, at 1+3 with snowy landscapes and liked the results.

guangong · Dec 11, 2022

We do have mountains In NJ. I live on one.
The New England prong extends into NW NJ. And often a lot of snow. However, this year no snow so far, but we haven’t entered winter yet.

Sirius Glass · Dec 11, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Sirius - yep. Hassies work great on the streets of Austria, cause nobody can trust em in the mountains. Real climbers need to know which direction is up, and which down, and how can you do that without a view camera where everything you look at is properly upside down to begin with?

Those who use a view camera have an inverted view of the earth. Without a prism Hasselblad users cannot tell right from left.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 11, 2022

GregY said:
Alan....it doesn't matter what camera he's using....

Sure it does. It's cheap and easy to bracket 35mm; not so with 4x5.

GregY · Dec 11, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Sure it does. It's cheap and easy to bracket 35mm; not so with 4x5.

These days people are complaining about the cost of 35mm film. With 4x5.....you take a few images...you process one.....if it prints well you're good. If it needs adjustment you process the next sheet accordingly. I don't know about you, but if i'm working in LF i take less images than if i'm working in MF or 35mm. Bracketing wildly gets you more negatives....not more great images.

Vaughn · Dec 11, 2022

Cost of film is the last thing I worry about when traveling...it is one of the cheapest items when on the road/boat/plane/train.

I am more concerned with the time at home developing all that film. Encourages me to do a lot of heavy editing in the field. I spent a month in Chile (2018) with the 5x7. Roughly averaged one sheet of film per day (30 sheets in a month). Spent 6 months traveling with the 4x5 (NZ and Australia, 1986) and exposed 70 sheets.

GregY · Dec 11, 2022

Vaughn said:
Cost of film is the last thing I worry about when traveling...it is one of the cheapest items when on the road/boat/plane/train.

I am more concerned with the time at home developing all that film. Encourages me to do a lot of heavy editing in the field. I spent a month in Chile (2018) with the 5x7. Roughly averaged one sheet of film per day (30 sheets in a month). Spent 6 months traveling with the 4x5 (NZ and Australia, 1986) and exposed 70 sheets.

Agreed Vaughn. Just from reading the various forums, i'd guess most people don't have just one expensive camera.....but the discussion of the cheapest LF xray film, or questionable bulk loads in 35mm baffles me. As long as there's Kodak and ilford i'm 100% using them on trips. I'm happy to test a camera in my home town w Foma or Arista....to see if the shutter speeds are on.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 11, 2022

GregY said:
These days people are complaining about the cost of 35mm film. With 4x5.....you take a few images...you process one.....if it prints well you're good. If it needs adjustment you process the next sheet accordingly. I don't know about you, but if i'm working in LF i take less images than if i'm working in MF or 35mm. Bracketing wildly gets you more negatives....not more great images.

I don't have a darkroom. So bracketing medium format 120 film makes sense to me, especially with chromes where a 1/2 stop can make a big difference. With 4x5 I rarely bracket but I can be wrong in my exposures.

There are tradeoffs especially when you're shooting during magic hour when the light is changing quickly.

Huss · Dec 12, 2022

I just climbed Mt Baldy two weeks ago, which is one of the tallest mountains in southern california. Lots of snow and bright sunshine. I just dialed in an extra 1.5 stops exposure on my Fuji Klasse W.
Don’t over think it.

Tylaar · Dec 12, 2022

Huss said:
I just climbed Mt Baldy two weeks ago, which is one of the tallest mountains in southern california. Lots of snow and bright sunshine. I just dialed in an extra 1.5 stops exposure on my Fuji Klasse W.
Don’t over think it.

Those are some beautiful images!

Vaughn · Dec 12, 2022

Great images! It's been over a half century since I stood on top of Mt Baldy...late 60s.

Greg...Arista 100 use to be FP4+ back when I was first using 8x10 (~1996). A great deal, no issues with the film at all. I experimented with xray film (free) that had emulsion on both sides. Not bad and for those using ULF cameras (>11x14), a viable alternative. I found the images too soft, due to having emulsion of both sides. The local hospital actually developed the film for me...the Techs loved it. But like you said, best to stick with what you know for trips.

But then, I went off backpacking this past summer with holders all loaded with out-of-date Kodak Copy Film. By my third (and last) backpack trip of that summer, I had the film nailed.

DREW WILEY · Dec 12, 2022

C'mon, Sirius - distinctions between left and right are things politicians argue about, and all that kind of discussion is banned here. Besides, Austria is on the other side of the International Date Line, and according to Einstein, that implies a space-time warp an ordinary prism can't correct. Maybe aspheric mirrors - dunno.

Sirius Glass · Dec 12, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
C'mon, Sirius - distinctions between left and right are things politicians argue about, and all that kind of discussion is banned here. Besides, Austria is on the other side of the International Date Line, and according to Einstein, that implies a space-time warp an ordinary prism can't correct. Maybe aspheric mirrors - dunno.

Still tracking a moving subject with a left right [UL: right left] reversal is not on my list of fun things to do.

wiltw · Dec 12, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Most people do not walk around with an 18% gray card in their pocket, but they usually have the palm of their hand available, even if it is in a glove.

And most palms are about 1EV brighter than an 18% gray card. Just checking my own again with a Minolta Spotmeter F moments ago reveals that my palm is 1.0EV brighter than a 18% gray card. The the brightness difference (about 1EV) applies regardless of the ethnic background of the palm in question.

guangong · Dec 12, 2022

Not still photography, but examples of the stunning effects in snowy Alpine photography are the several movies by Frank staring Leni Riefenstahl. Worth a look.

GregY · Dec 12, 2022

That would be Arnold Frank....not Robert Frank

gone · Dec 12, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Take the light readings off the palm of your hand

That's what I did too when I used a handheld meter. Snow can be tricky I understand (heat and warmth are more to my liking, so wherever snow is, I usually ain't) due to the reflectivity issue. Same w/ photographing a blackish person,cat, etc, then things have to be adjusted to account for that.

Sirius Glass · Dec 12, 2022

wiltw said:
And most palms are about 1EV brighter than an 18% gray card. Just checking my own again with a Minolta Spotmeter F moments ago reveals that my palm is 1.0EV brighter than a 18% gray card. The the brightness difference (about 1EV) applies regardless of the ethnic background of the palm in question.

It is easier to adjust 1 f/stop off the palm than drag around a 18% gray card in your back pocket.

Sirius Glass · Dec 12, 2022

Ever try to carry around an a 18% gray card while skiing.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 13, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Most people do not walk around with an 18% gray card in their pocket, but they usually have the palm of their hand available, even if it is in a glove.

The back of my exposure note book when I;m shooting large format has a gray card. They have exposure books for 35mm and medium format as well which also have gray cards on the back of the book. They all fit in your shirt pocket.

exposure notes | B&H Photo Video

Shop B&H's in stock, large inventory for fast shipping, great service and everyday low prices on exposure notes. For more info, please call 800-947-4415

www.bhphotovideo.com

guangong · Dec 13, 2022

GregY said:
That would be Arnold Frank....not Robert Frank

Thanks! While writing my comment, I couldn’t recall his first name. Great films in stunning BW.
When AF made these films RF was not even a gleam in his father’s eye.

wiltw · Dec 13, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
It is easier to adjust 1 f/stop off the palm than drag around a 18% gray card in your back pocket.

Sirius Glass · Dec 13, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
The back of my exposure note book when I;m shooting large format has a gray card. They have exposure books for 35mm and medium format as well which also have gray cards on the back of the book. They all fit in your shirt pocket.

exposure notes | B&H Photo Video

Shop B&H's in stock, large inventory for fast shipping, great service and everyday low prices on exposure notes. For more info, please call 800-947-4415

www.bhphotovideo.com

Turtle neck ski shirts do not have pockets. Falling on a notebook would not feel like much fun.

DREW WILEY · Dec 13, 2022

Taking light readings off palms makes the assumption that everyone has the same skin color as back in the TV days of Leave it to Beaver and Andy Griffiths; and even then there were those with deeper tans. Makes no difference, a midpoint reading isn't likely to give you an accurate estimate of bright snow tonality and sparkle itself, unless you have a lot of practice with that very scenario. Gray cards, if you can find a decent one, can be helpful in moderate contrast color scenes, because color film saturation is based on a midpoint. But differentiating life and sparkle versus general highlights in fresh snow or gleaming ice using b&w film can vary quite a bit from midpoint depending on circumstances. In Zone lingo, if mid gray is Zone V, those highlight gradations might be anywhere from Z 7 to Z12 or more, hardly something you want to guess about. Open sun can pose a much greater contrast range than the soft light of falling snow. And what looks OK on the web might look as flat as a soggy pancake as an enlargement in print.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 13, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
It is easier to adjust 1 f/stop off the palm than drag around a 18% gray card in your back pocket.

What if you're wearing gloves?

Snowy Alpine Scenes: General Thoughts

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