Simplest developing solution

[Craig75]

Sounds easier just to use xp2 and get it c41 processed in Ops circumstances. I've been in similar situations and that's the optimum solution imo.

 

[George Mann]

Well, I guess that puts an end to my plans before they even began.

Anyone want a vintage day tank?

 

[Donald Qualls]

If you haven't got room for a pair of quart bottles (one working, one in reserve) on top of your developing tank, how do you have room for a camera and film?

 

[Don_ih]

You can always do what
@Donald Qualls suggested - namely let the fixer evaporate. It is only 200ml. You will fix 25 rolls of film from a 1 litre bottle of rapid fixer. It would take a couple of days for 200ml of fixer to evaporate if poured into a tray - much shorter if boiled outside. Save up the powder and toss it into a forge - after 75 rolls of film, you might get a silver dime.

 

[George Mann]

If you haven't got room for a pair of quart bottles (one working, one in reserve) on top of your developing tank, how do you have room for a camera and film?

I do have room for 2 quart bottles. But I would need more bottles to take the used developing agents somewhere for disposal.

I have too many cameras currently. I can't find any new film at a sane price however.

 

[George Mann]

You can always do what
@Donald Qualls suggested - namely let the fixer evaporate. It is only 200ml. You will fix 25 rolls of film from a 1 litre bottle of rapid fixer. It would take a couple of days for 200ml of fixer to evaporate if poured into a tray - much shorter if boiled outside. Save up the powder and toss it into a forge - after 75 rolls of film, you might get a silver dime.

Yes, that is doable. Which fixer stays good the longest.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes, that is doable. Which fixer stays good the longest.

Unopened bottle of Ilford Rapid fix should last a couple of years according to Ilford...I've got bottles at the school I teach at that I bought in 2013, and they are fine. Once you make a working solution, they're good for up to about six months.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I do have room for 2 quart bottles. But I would need more bottles to take the used developing agents somewhere for disposal.

With Df96, you don't. You reuse it, with time adjustment for each roll after the first, and once it's exhausted, you pour the final tankful back into the bottle, mark it as "used up" in some manner (duct tape the cap shut?), and put it in a special corner to be disposed of in (at least) landfill or preferably household hazardous waste at your next town. Or boil it down like fixer -- the developing agents will denature from heat pretty quickly at boiling temp, and you'll get crystals made up of sulfite and thiosulfate (like you would with commercial fixer, but higher sulfite content), contaminated with silver.

As for rapid fixer, the current working solution in my darkroom is Kodak Rapid Fixer that I got, expired, for free in 2007, stored in a shed for five years (temperatures ranging from 100+ to near zero F) and mixed last year. The 2L bottle of working solution has had close to twenty rolls through it, and still clears Foma 400 in just about a minute. As concentrate, it's well nigh immortal. Keep it long enough, you might have to put it through a coffee filter to avoid having sulfur specks on your emulsion, but it'll still fix the film. The cheapest fixer you can buy is Kodak Flexicolor LORR Fixer/Replenisher (for C-41). Dilute 1+4 just like Rapid Fixer, but it's quite a bit less money for the same capacity.

 

[FotoD]

How about Tetenals new tablets for developer and fixer?

 

[Donald Qualls]

How about Tetenals new tablets for developer and fixer?

Still gives the disposal issue, though evaporating the liquid is a good solution there.

 

[snusmumriken]

I thought it might be worth mentioning Tetenal's Parvofin developer and Superfine fixer in tablet form, which is obviously very space-saving. I have no experience of these myself. The Ilford single-use sachets of chemicals would not be helpful because they are designed for a 2-reel tank; in this environmentally-conscious time they also seem horribly over-packaged.

The capacity of the Rondinax 35 tank is said to be small, but I'm not clear how small? You need to be sure you put enough molecules in it to complete development / fixing, and that may dictate more concentrated solutions than in a normal-sized tank perhaps?

Other than the fact that you own a Rondinax 35 and it's fun, I'm not clear why you want to develop on the hoof, since you presumably can't print while travelling?

PS - Sorry, just saw PhotoD's post, made while I was writing mine.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I'm not clear why you want to develop on the hoof, since you presumably can't print while travelling?

I'd hazard a guess that it's because negatives are much more resilient to a hot environment than exposed film. Washed/dried/sleeved negatives can be stored in a binder or similar and use limited space more efficiently than cassettes, and if you bulk load, a loader and 3-4 cassettes take up less space than the same film in preloaded cassettes (about 17).

 

[snusmumriken]

Sure -- from deep hard rock mines for the most part. If found on the surface it'll be as an impurity in gold flakes and nuggets, and very little of it.

I'm always willing to be surprised about environmental issues, but intuitively I can't see the dissolved silver from fixing a few films as a major pollutant, compared with the silver in widespread use as an anti-bacterial coating in clothing and household goods, or the silver on the film leaders and out-of-date film chucked into landfill sites. Presumably the OP will be moving his camper van from place to place, thus spreading the load. He could even dribble it out on the road as he drives.

 

[George Mann]

Other than the fact that you own a Rondinax 35 and it's fun, I'm not clear why you want to develop on the hoof, since you presumably can't print while travelling?

I am going to "photograph" the film for casual viewing. It will be cheaper to develope these casual shots myself.

 

[George Mann]

I'm always willing to be surprised about environmental issues, but intuitively I can't see the dissolved silver from fixing a few films as a major pollutant, compared with the silver in widespread use as an anti-bacterial coating in clothing and household goods, or the silver on the film leaders and out-of-date film chucked into landfill sites. Presumably the OP will be moving his camper van from place to place, thus spreading the load. He could even dribble it out on the road as he drives.

Correct. And if I use a caffenol developer, then the only toxic part to worry about would be the used fixer, right?

 

[snusmumriken]

I'd hazard a guess that it's because negatives are much more resilient to a hot environment than exposed film. Washed/dried/sleeved negatives can be stored in a binder or similar and use limited space more efficiently than cassettes, and if you bulk load, a loader and 3-4 cassettes take up less space than the same film in preloaded cassettes (about 17).

Good point. I was thinking of the cold humid winters of the UK, and in that context I was also going to mention Tetenal's Mirasol wetting agent, which contains an anti-fungal agent. I swear by that stuff. But maybe not necessary in Arizona.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I do have room for 2 quart bottles. But I would need more bottles to take the used developing agents somewhere for disposal.

I have too many cameras currently. I can't find any new film at a sane price however.

Just let them evaporate. Sounds like you are going to use small quantities, so it wouldn't take long. I did this in Japan, outside on my balcony. Small screen overtop so the birds don't take a bath or drink...

 

[BrianShaw]

If I were George I think I’d finally admit that non-chemical photography is worth considering.

 

[George Mann]

If I were George I think I’d finally admit that non-chemical photography is worth considering.

What type of photography would you be referring to?

 

[koraks]

I can't see the dissolved silver from fixing a few films as a major pollutant, compared with the silver in widespread use as an anti-bacterial coating in clothing and household goods, or the silver on the film leaders and out-of-date film chucked into landfill sites

1000 wrongs don't make a right.
The fact that we mess up many things doesn't make it right to add yet another to the list.
Dumping dissolved silver just about anywhere is bad practice. It's similar to throwing candy wrappers out of the window - only assholes do that sort of thing.

At the very least precipitate out the silver so it's no longer organically bound. It's ridiculously easy to do anyway. I liked the earlier suggestion of evaporating most of the volume and disposing of the residue in a responsible way.

 

[FotoD]

1000 wrongs don't make a right.
The fact that we mess up many things doesn't make it right to add yet another to the list.
Dumping dissolved silver just about anywhere is bad practice. It's similar to throwing candy wrappers out of the window - only assholes do that sort of thing.

And it's not just silver getting thrown out. It's a really bad and inconsiderate idea.

 

[Don_ih]

Dumping dissolved silver just about anywhere is bad practice. It's similar to throwing candy wrappers out of the window - only assholes do that sort of thing.

It might be a good idea to not be so hyperbolic. Dump 200ml of used fixer on the ground - pretty much anywhere - and it will have zero impact on anything. Silver is not particularly volatile. Silver nitrate is, but that's not what you get in fixer. The silver in fixer will just sit on the ground until it gets washed down into the ground - and impact nothing. And it's maybe 80mg of silver.

 

[Down Under]

I've been warned against this substitution, and PhotoFlo comes in a tiny bottle (one or two ounces?) so is the least of your space worries.

A good point, however, I have "detergented" B&W films in my archives from the 1980s and none have deteriorated. I used only one or two drops in a final rinse to ensure my negatives were clean, and it worked well. I did discuss this in the 1980s with a customer service officer at Kodak Australasia, who went to the company's chemists with my query, and later told me they said they couldn't see it was a problem.

One can rewash and treat negatives with PhotoFlo at a future date, as I've done since retiring in 2012 with film strips I want to leave behind for posterity (or for my executor to throw into a dumper after I've "passed").

Yes, a small bottle of PhotoFlo won't take up much room even in a campervan, but the OP seems determined to save whatever small space he can and this being the case, eliminating this bottle will make sense to him.

Horses for courses, as they say.

 

[john_s]

50 years ago I got to know a German backpacker here in Australia and he travelled very light. In his backpack was a single roll Jobo inversion tank, Rodinal and I don't remember what fixer he used, probably powder that he would use one shot.
Now that airport Xrays are making carrying film problematic, I was intrigued to see the Tetenal developer and fixer in the form of dissolvable tablets. Not cheap, but could be handy.

 

[john_s]

.... I did discuss this in the 1980s with a customer service officer at Kodak Australasia, who went to the company's chemists with my query, and later told me they said they couldn't see it was a problem......

Those were the days. Kodak's storefront in Collins Street Melbourne was where all questions were taken seriously by the erudite staff. I experienced outstanding service there.

At least these days we have the internet where lots of wisdom and experience is shared (along with other stuff, unfortunately).