Simplest developing solution

George Mann · Oct 17, 2021

Does rapid fixer have any limitations I need to be aware of?

MattKing · Oct 17, 2021

George Mann said:
Does rapid fixer have any limitations I need to be aware of?

Even unused, it can still deteriorate with time.
It will also deteriorate more quickly in a half filled bottle than in an unopened bottle.
It is designed to be re-used. One shot use is expensive and relatively wasteful. I mix mine up at the recommended film strength, mark the bottle with the manufacturer's recommended capacity (in rolls) for the volume of the mixed solution, and do clip tests regularly to check its status.
Like all used fixers, it isn't a good idea to dump it down the drain because of the silver in it.

mohmad khatab · Oct 17, 2021

pentaxuser said:
George, have a look at this video: It is part of the set of Pictorial Planet videos by a man called John Finch I find his instructions particularly clear

I hope this helps

pentaxuser

+1

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 18, 2021

Use D-23. Then dilute it 1+1 for more economy and slightly more sharpness. It's wonderful with Delta 100. Brian suggested a liquid developer. That's another excellent option that takes up no more space than D-23 would.

koraks · Oct 18, 2021

George Mann said:
Because the liquids take up too much room.

Not necessarily. Highly concentrated developers are quite space-efficient. Think rodinal, pyrocat, HC110 (although you'd have to decant it as it comes in fairly big bottles and it's not DIY). For a DIY solution, I'd consider a pyro developer like pyrocat, 510 pyro etc. (there's dozens of them, mostly variations on the "pyrogallol or pyrocatechol staining developer" theme). Takes up *very* little space indeed. For fixer, simply carry some ammonium thiosulfate around - either as a powder (but it tends to lump a bit, store very dry!) or as a 60% concentrate. A monobath has only a marginal benefit in terms of space savings and several drawbacks that make it a poor choice IMO.

Down Under · Oct 18, 2021

Koraks (#31) has it about right. Let's apply Common Sense 101 (aka 'KISS')...

Mixing your own D-23 will involve two containers of raw chemicals and a scale. Not exactly space savers.

Go for a bottle of HC-110. One of fixer (no hardener needed, although I personally would use it). Water for your stop bath. Dish detergent as a PhotoFlo replacement.

I used this in the 1970s and 1980s when I did a lot of photography on the road, back then most motels in rural Australia didn't offer much by way of modern conveniences. It worked for me. My negatives from the '70s are still pristine and haven't faded.

Now to tackle printing...

removed account4 · Oct 18, 2021

what exactly is the dimension you need, can everything be about the size of a shoebox or do you need smaller?
you might end up ditching the Agfa tank after you use it a couple of times. rumor has it that they leak and the knob well, be prepared to burn a few rolls to get the hang of things and see if it is suitable for your needs. I've seen your work for years and it doesn't seem that it won't be up to task, maybe I'm wrong. personally if I was developing 1 roll of film at a time I'd ditch the daylight tank altogether and get a single reel 35mm developing tank** - it is barely bigger than a film reel, no Bakelite or brittle plastic to crack, no knob to hope agitates your film the way you like it, no mess ... the small hand tank and changing bag, scissors, bottle opener, and 1L bottles of sprint chemistry can all fit in a shoe box. AND has an 1-800# and website, they answer the phone when you have issues, so you don't have to post questions online and hope some random person can help you. dev is mixed 1:9 and works with every film made, and won't blow out your highlights. fixer is 2:8 and lasts a long time.

** I have your Agfa tank in my basement gifted to me 40 years ago, I never used it and opted for a 35mm tank

good luck with your processing!
John

Donald Qualls · Oct 18, 2021

ozmoose said:
Dish detergent as a PhotoFlo replacement.

I've been warned against this substitution, and PhotoFlo comes in a tiny bottle (one or two ounces?) so is the least of your space worries.

You could use almost any liquid concentrate developer, by breaking it down into vials sized for one-shot use with no air inside. Same for fixer. Yes, it can deteriorate over time, but that's with months or years of storage, not the kind of time most people will spend on a camping trip.

You can carry dry chemicals for D-23 easily enough, mix with water from your drinking water source (a stream?), doesn't need to be boiled for film. Fixer can be carried as dry crystals, too, for plain hypo -- which works fine for cubic grain films, but needs two-bath use for tabular grain. Obviously, you should be carrying out your chemicals from any wilderness area, however, which (to me) would put a hard stop on all this -- you'll be hauling more out (due to water for mixing and washing) than you haul in.

Alan9940 · Oct 18, 2021

ozmoose said:
Mixing your own D-23 will involve two containers of raw chemicals and a scale. Not exactly space savers.

The most "room" required for the raw chemicals would be the sodium sulfite; and that would only be an issue if one ordered enough at one time to save on shipping cost. No scale necessary...it can be mixed with a teaspoon.

Donald Qualls · Oct 18, 2021

Or each of the chemicals can be pre-weighed and stored in airtight packets of some kind (drug dealer size zipper bags for the metol, larger ones or film cans for the sulfite). A drug dealer's scale can be tiny, too -- my partner had one for measuring chemicals to go into an aquarium, it was the size of four coasters stacked and weighed a couple ounces.

George Mann · Oct 18, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Obviously, you should be carrying out your chemicals from any wilderness area, however, which (to me) would put a hard stop on all this -- you'll be hauling more out (due to water for mixing and washing) than you haul in.

Yes, I have been thinking about this dilemma. So I have been heavily leaning on using a non-toxic caffenol concoction.

removed account4 · Oct 18, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Or each of the chemicals can be pre-weighed and stored in airtight packets of some kind (drug dealer size zipper bags for the metol, larger ones or film cans for the sulfite). A drug dealer's scale can be tiny, too -- my partner had one for measuring chemicals to go into an aquarium, it was the size of four coasters stacked and weighed a couple ounces.

I would not do this if my life depended on it...
the problem with a drug dealer's scale and small bags of chemistry is that if stopped by officer blue and they want to be a PITA for any reason they want probable cause is just I don't like the way that guy is looking at me, then they see small baggies of powders lying around, I know I'd be detained, whether I was in a camper van, or anything else. unless of course the police person is an avid analogue photographer they see cool cameras forget they pulled you over because your previously unbroken tail lamp is broken and always use D23 to process their film. but the chances of that is slim to nil. OP don't forget to make a donation to the FOP so you can put a decal that you are a "booster"

Donald Qualls · Oct 18, 2021

If you pre-weigh the component chemicals, you can avoid even carrying the scale, and if you keep the film cans and cameras together, and stored out of obvious sight, you're just a guy on a camping trip. If police where you're going are pulling random people, making up violations, and violating the 4th Amendment on a routine basis, you need to be worrying about where to move to, not how to develop your film away from civilization.

George Mann · Oct 18, 2021

OK, so I have decided to use Labeauratoire's Caffenol Concoction. I still need a non-toxic fixer, and will use water for the stop bath.

Any ideas for the fixer?

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 18, 2021

Caffenol is excellent. Ascorbic acid, washing soda, and instant coffee.

Don_ih · Oct 18, 2021

George Mann said:
OK, so I have decided to use Labeauratoire's Caffenol Concoction. I still need a non-toxic fixer, and will use water for the stop bath.

Any ideas for the fixer?

No matter what you use for fixer, the used fix will have silver in it. Silver recovery is an option.

George Mann · Oct 18, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
Caffenol is excellent. Ascorbic acid, washing soda, and instant coffee.

Doesn't washing soda act as a fixer?

George Mann · Oct 18, 2021

Don Heisz said:
No matter what you use for fixer, the used fix will have silver in it. Silver recovery is an option.

So all fixers are non-toxic?

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 18, 2021

George Mann said:
Doesn't washing soda act as a fixer?

Washing Soda acts as an accelerator in the developer. Not used for fixing. If you can't get washing soda, you can make it at home by baking baking soda in the oven.

George Mann · Oct 18, 2021

michael_r said:
Fixer is fixer. No getting around it. And no, sodium carbonate is not a fixer.

What I’m not clear on here is if OP means to say he goes on camping trips during which he lives in a van, or if he lives full time in a van. If it’s the former, save the exposed film for later processing, which will give better results than any of this half-baked stuff. If it’s the latter, send the film to a lab.

Yes, I am a full-time camper in Arizona during the winter months.

I want to develope my casual daily shots myself. Absolute quality is unimportant.

I send my important/serious stuff to dr5.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Oct 18, 2021

An Instax camera is probably a simpler solution.

Donald Qualls · Oct 18, 2021

George Mann said:
So all fixers are non-toxic?

Thiosulfates as such are good fertilizers for plants that need sulfur (roses, for instance). The problem is with silver dissolved in used fixer: it's a toxic heavy metal (right next to cadmium on the periodic table). In sewer systems, it quickly reacts to form an insoluble and very stable sulfide, but the "quickly" part is likely to be lacking if you just dump used fixer on the ground. Instead, oxidation of the thiosulfate can deposit metallic silver, which is very bad for soil bacteria and not so good for other things that live in the soil. Used fixer is the substance you'd most want to haul back to civilization for disposal.

The good news is, a liter of working strength rapid fixer will fix 12-16 films (8x10 equivalent, so 135-36, 120, or four 4x5), and can then be evaporated down to crystals (over a campfire, for instance, to speed up the process) and the crystals stored in the evaporation pot for the next liter.

For myself, I'd strongly suggest using Df96 to its capacity of 16 films per liter. It's developer and fixer in a single bottle, requires only the ability to warm the working solution (needs to be 75-85 F to balance development and fixing rates), and keeps a long time before opening (or a couple months in the original bottle once opened). I've had very good results with it, though I never mixed another quart after the first because by then I was getting my darkroom set up and could store individual chemicals. It's sold in dry form, but you can mix it "in town" in a liter drink bottle with reasonably clean tap water, or you can buy it already mixed -- shipping is slower and costs more, but no mixing and it's already in a good storage bottle. Once capacity is used up, mark the bottle accordingly and dispose of it appropriately at your next town stop.

removed account4 · Oct 18, 2021

George Mann said:
So all fixers are non-toxic?

I hope you are not going to just dump your developer outdoors thinking it is non toxic.
it might be caffenol but after film goes swimming in it its USED caffenol and you shouldn't just dump it outdoors
you can use a super saturated salt solution to stabilize your negatives, and after you do it will have silver in it
and like your developer shouldn't just be tossed.

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
An Instax camera is probably a simpler solution.

+1

michael_r said:
send the film to a lab

+1

Don_ih · Oct 18, 2021

Meanwhile, you wouldn't be dumping a film-lab's worth of chemicals on the ground, so the impact would be negligible. Silver does come from the ground.

Donald Qualls · Oct 18, 2021

Don Heisz said:
Silver does come from the ground.

Sure -- from deep hard rock mines for the most part. If found on the surface it'll be as an impurity in gold flakes and nuggets, and very little of it.

Simplest developing solution

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