Should I get a really old roll of film?

[Bill Burk]

I've been experimenting with some old film and found one that gives me a film speed of 2 (4 if I push) and the grain is somewhere between Tri-X and Plus-X... There's a bulk roll of it out there that I have permission from my wife to buy.

But I was wondering... Should I? What good would it be? Best I can imagine is that I could get waves and flowing water wide open, and with prominent grain. It might be fun.

Or should I buy a fresh 200 speed film and get the benefit of the higher film speed?

 

[wiltw]

Given the fact that nothing photosensitive can avoid the effects of cosmic radiation (even when buried deeply in the ground, the cosmic rays pass THRU the Earth) I would hesititate to spend much money only to find it significantly fogged by cosmic rays.

 

[Bill Burk]

I've already established the fog on a single roll of similar age of the same stock. That's why I come up with a speed of 2.

Base is 0.32, B+F is 0.67

 

[Peltigera]

Yes, you should buy it. Life is much too short to be grown-up about stuff.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Meh, I'd pass and buy some fresh film. Nothing exciting about it. A ND filter is much more interesting if you don't have one already.

 

[pentaxuser]

The very fact you have asked the question on a forum tells me what you really want to do, Bill so I'd do it. Peltigera sums it up well

pentaxuser

 

[BradS]

Why buy garbage?
Buy fresh film and enjoy life.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The risk here is that the bulk roll may have (likely has) different storage history from the single cassette you've tested, unless that cassette came from this self-same bulk roll.

Weigh that against the risk that you'll miss out on the fun of shooting long exposure in bright sun without ND filter, and still getting "press photo" grain -- resulting in some interesting prints.

Worst case, if it's got much more fog, you can apply the cold developer/BZT technique and likely still salvage the film. If it's not at collector prices, I'd say go for it.

 

[NB23]

Nothing beats fresh film and fresh paper. Deep blacks. I often wonder why Have I spent even a second on salvaging fogged papers when I see what fresh paper and film can do.

 

[Kino]

Life is the journey, not the destination. Failures teach you more than successes. Have fun!

 

[Pentode]

Yes, you should buy it. Life is much too short to be grown-up about stuff.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

We're not talking about buying a car here, or even a bicycle. A bulk roll of film, even if it's not bargain-priced, is not a huge investment. Why not have some fun and see what it yields? There are ways to deal with fog, all well documented.

 

[NB23]

You seem to forget that there is a wife in the picture...

We're not talking about buying a car here, or even a bicycle. A bulk roll of film, even if it's not bargain-priced, is not a huge investment. Why not have some fun and see what it yields? There are ways to deal with fog, all well documented.

 

[Pentode]

You seem to forget that there is a wife in the picture...

Do I?

There's a bulk roll of it out there that I have permission from my wife to buy.

 

[NB23]

Do I?

She ideed okayed the purchase of the film, but that okay never comes without collateral damage. Now she may well be asking for that car, or bicycle in question.

 

[Bill Burk]

Nothing beats fresh film and fresh paper. Deep blacks. I often wonder why Have I spent even a second on salvaging fogged papers when I see what fresh paper and film can do.

Paper right.

But with a negative you can print through fog.

I do enjoy fresh fast film and this is basically 5222 that I could order fresh.

So I am also interested in that too.

Are there advantages to be had shooting 5222 over TMAX-400?

TMAX-400 has been my multi purpose film for a few years but I want better enlargements.

So far I use Panatomic-X or TMAX-100 for the “better enlargements”.

 

[Bill Burk]

She ideed okayed the purchase of the film, but that okay never comes without collateral damage. Now she may well be asking for that car, or bicycle in question.

She gets the yellow Christmas tree I put the kebash on when she first brought it up.

 

[Donald Qualls]

She ideed okayed the purchase of the film, but that okay never comes without collateral damage. Now she may well be asking for that car, or bicycle in question.

In my experience, there is often even more collateral damage if you get the okay, and then don't do what you were okayed for. You still have to pay the quid pro quo and then get the "don't you appreciate my support of your (silly) hobby?" speech, perhaps including "perhaps you don't really need to spend so much on it, after all."

I do enjoy fresh fast film and this is basically 5222 that I could order fresh.

So I am also interested in that too.

Are there advantages to be had shooting 5222 over TMAX-400?

5222 is Double-X Negative cine film, right? If it's fresh, it does everything Tri-X did forty years ago. It pushes well when needed, makes no apologies for grain, and has exceptional tonality (as one might expect from a Cine film). It works great in Df96 monobath; I haven't shot and processed my second (fresh) roll yet, so can't tell you how it is in Xtol, but my expectation is it'll be very good. Relative to T-Max 400, it's a whole different animal. T-Max 400 is the finest grained, sharpest 400 speed you can buy. Double-X hasn't changed since it was released in 1959. Especially if you push it to 400, it'll look like first generation Tri-X, where T-Max 400 is fine enough you can look at an 8x10 and think it was shot with Tri-X -- in 4x5.

If you have some that's age fogged and desensitized enough to have single-digit speed, you've got something interesting. Shooting wide open, or even long exposures wide open, in full sun, with a film that has the other characteristics of Double-X is a unique experience. Seems like a no-brainer if the funding has already been approved. And a yellow Christmas tree doesn't seem a high exchange cost...

 

[Bill Burk]

Got it! Seller even reduced the price. Thanks for the encouragement. Indeed I use Benzotriazole. It will be fun learning the ins and outs of fog reducing techniques. One of my meters only goes down to 3. I have seen 2 and 4 with the old roll I am shooting now so I will try to find the magic bullet that gets me to 3

I will also ask my camera store to get a few 24-exp rolls of fresh 5222

 

[Donald Qualls]

Nice. You may be surprised on what the effective speed is. That's only a little over 50 years old, by rule of thumb it ought to be closer to EI 16, and if it's been well stored it might be a stop or more faster than that.

If you don't have an ice maker in your fridge, make sure you have clean ice trays...

 

[Bill Burk]

Expires 1954 so near 70 years. Guess that makes EI of 4 to be expected.

Still it looks like this was frozen or otherwise well cared for. So I will welcome a little surprise.

So, you just drop cubes in the developer? Nice. I always used baggies.

 

[wiltw]

I've already established the fog on a single roll of similar age of the same stock. That's why I come up with a speed of 2.

Base is 0.32, B+F is 0.67

OK, you have used a sample, you know what the base fog is like, and it sounds as if you have sufficient understanding about the sensitometry to go in with eyes open. Now you can assess the lowered price vs. the understanding of the limitations of the old film, so you can make the purchase with eyes open! Have fun with it.

 

[Donald Qualls]

So, you just drop cubes in the developer? Nice. I always used baggies.

The article I read about cold developing mentioned using ice cubes as part of the dilution water. One way I could see doing this is to make up your volume as usual, with half the added water in the form of ice, and stir vigorously to melt the ice quickly. Another option would be to keep a container of (filtered/distilled?) water in the fridge (around 40F) and combine that with room temperature or tap temperature water (finally, a use for high school or college freshman math!) to get a final developer temperature of 50-55F. Eliminate most of the fog, you can probably pick up at couple stops (you'll still be in single digit EI, but 8 is a much nicer single digit than 2 for this purpose).

 

[peter k.]

70 year old film shooting and developing, with perhaps, even using a cold developing process ...
Fascinating.. Hopefully will be seeing some updates and results.

 

[Pentode]

The article I read about cold developing mentioned using ice cubes as part of the dilution water. One way I could see doing this is to make up your volume as usual, with half the added water in the form of ice, and stir vigorously to melt the ice quickly. Another option would be to keep a container of (filtered/distilled?) water in the fridge (around 40F) and combine that with room temperature or tap temperature water (finally, a use for high school or college freshman math!) to get a final developer temperature of 50-55F. Eliminate most of the fog, you can probably pick up at couple stops (you'll still be in single digit EI, but 8 is a much nicer single digit than 2 for this purpose).

My method for expired Tri-X has been to keep a couple of bottles of water in the film fridge, which keeps them right about 55deg F. I use either Rodinal or HC-110 for expired film so I just mix that 55deg water with the developer concentrate and if it raises the temperature a degree or two I don't lose sleep. I add three drops of 2% benzo (drops are really technical, huh?) to a two-reel tank and I just about double the developing time. Actually just a little more. That has worked well for me but I've never gotten the fog to clear completely as it does for the author of that article. I guess I just haven't found the perfect recipe yet.

 

[Paul Howell]

In the 90s I got a sealed box of 4X5 Tri X that came with odd ends from a couple of enlarging len from the 50s, don't recall the exact year, early TriX, ASA was 200, shot at 25, and developed one negative, used HC110, not only was the film fogged the emulsion came off in the fix. As you shot and developed a roll of the same stock and think it's worth the money then go for it.