Shooting moving objects with 4 x 5 field camera

[sperera]

Hi everyone. Shooting horses/riders on in the countryside: I'd like to do it with the 4 x 5. 35mm, 6 x 6 etc would be the way for normal people haha but I want to do it with 4 x 5.

My question is.....has anyone invented some kind of framing device that more or less shows you the frame once the film holder is in place.

I thought of mounting a GoPro with a back screen on the flash hot shoe mount to know when a subject is inside the frame......another idea is perhaps even a tooth pick mounted on the hot shoe that will show when the object is in the middle and then shoot....hahhahahah...anyone had any good or crazy ways to get action on 4 x 5 cameras. As I said its knowing when your subject is in frame is the concern.

Obviously one solution is not to frame in tight so if you go off centre you can crop in etc but other than that????

Look forward to great and crazy suggestions.....

 

[koraks]

Get a decent tripod head so you can pan along with the subject. Frame somewhat wide, landscape orientation. Make a simple viewfinder (two pieces of cardboard with a cutout). Bring many film holders.

Sounds like a fun project.

 

[sperera]

Get a decent tripod head so you can pan along with the subject. Frame somewhat wide, landscape orientation. Make a simple viewfinder (two pieces of cardboard with a cutout). Bring many film holders.

Sounds like a fun project.

thats the spirit!!!!! cardboard with a cut out! vamosssss

 

[P C Headland]

Something like this?

I've used this a couple of times with my MPP. Press cameras often had these wire frame finders.

 

[BobUK]

P C Headland you just beat me to it.
The one I was thinking of is the Graflex Crown Graphic Press Camera.
Another wire frame viewfinder.
Couldn't find a picture on the internet that looked fair game for including here.
Google Graflex Crown Graphic Press

 

[sperera]

Something like this?
View attachment 370719

I've used this a couple of times with my MPP. Press cameras often had these wire frame finders.

totally what I had in my head!!! does it exist???? my Chamonix has a flash hot shoe on the front element (they prob all do haha) so would have to be something for that.....

 

[P C Headland]

does it exist????

On a dead press camera ;-) I have seen some for smaller format folding cameras, it may be possible to modify one to fit.

 

[Ian Grant]

I shoot LF hand held, initially using a Crown Graphic (now sold) but then with a Super Graphic. The wire frame finders are built into these Graflex camera, unlike the MPP's where they are add on accessories.

Because the wire finder is part of the front standard it remains accurate enough with 90mm to 210mm lensesm and I can frame quite tight. I focus & compose on the GG screen, then close the shutter, stop down, and add the film holder, it's a quick process, less than 30 seconds.

You can either pan hand held, or use a good tripod head.

Ian

 

[sperera]

On a dead press camera ;-) I have seen some for smaller format folding cameras, it may be possible to modify one to fit.

I have great tripod heads as I also shoot 16mm motion picture film so just need some sort of framing device...doesnt have to be perfect just has to get my object in the frame nicely....obv not shooting a tight frame

 

[juan]

Fred Pickers Zone VI newsletters are online somewhere. In one of them he writes extensively about using his 4x5 view camera to photograph jumping horses. It was a paid, commercial shoot. I think he prefocused on an area.

 

[Chan Tran]

Framing isn't difficult I think focusing is a lot more difficult.

 

[sperera]

Framing isn't difficult I think focusing is a lot more difficult.

of course that's right...we shall see

 

[RalphLambrecht]

If you are trying 4x5 for image quality, don't. You are losing it all to imperfect focus!

 

[sperera]

If you are trying 4x5 for image quality, don't. You are losing it all to imperfect focus!

yes I know....but a challenge is a challenge.....thanks for all the comments. I will push T-Max 400 1 or 2 stops to get decent depth of field and hope for the best.

Kodak TMax 400 pushed 1 stop to EI 800
150mm lens, shoot at least 5 metres away
In bright, Andalucian (southern Spain) sun that's 1/500 sec at f22
= 7.73 metres plus of depth of field

Kodak TMax 400 pushed 2 stops to EI 1600
150mm lens, shoot at least 5 metres away
In bright, Andalucian (southern Spain) sun that's 1/500 sec at f32
= 18.38 metres plus of depth of field

Thanks pCam app haha

 

[Ian Grant]

If you are trying 4x5 for image quality, don't. You are losing it all to imperfect focus!

It's very easy to accurately pre-focus, plenty of DOF, and the OP shouldn't need to push process. 1/500 maybe a little too fast, a touch of movement in horse's legs at 1/250, or even 1/125 might add to an image.

Ian

 

[sperera]

It's very easy to accurately pre-focus, plenty of DOF, and the OP shouldn't need to push process. 1/500 maybe a little too fast, a touch of movement in horse's legs at 1/250, or even 1/125 might add to an image.

Ian

Hey Ian good point.....movement in the legs would be super cool!!!!

 

[Ian Grant]

Even here in Sunny North Worcestershire I could currently shoot HP5 @ 400EI, 1/125 at f22 which is great for hand held work. When I lived in Turkey which is similar light to southern Spain that would more typically be 1/250 at f22

Ian

 

[Sean Mac]

If Eadweard Muybridge could manage in the late 19th century it should be possible now.

I wonder if optical beam breaking technology could replace wires...

 

[sperera]

Even here in Sunny North Worcestershire I could currently shoot HP5 @ 400EI, 1/125 at f22 which is great for hand held work. When I lived in Turkey which is similar light to southern Spain that would more typically be 1/250 at f22

Ian

Hahaha sunny UK is not normal is it Hahaha good one

 

[BrianShaw]

Use a fast grainy film. That takes the pressure offf somewhat.

 

[Ian Grant]

Use a fast grainy film. That takes the pressure offf somewhat.

It's 5x4 Brian, a 20x16 print off HP5 @ 400EI is such a small enlargement you won't see any grain

Ian

 

[David Lindquist]

Famously there's Paul Caponigro's "Running White Deer." https://www.artnet.com/artists/paul...nty-wicklow-ireland-a-DFIyEaN2c7aq-k9i6FH9fA2

No idea how he framed it or otherwise accomplished this tour de force.. Guessing he was using a 4x5 or 5x7 Deardorff.

David

 

[ic-racer]

Of course hand holding 4x5 is a very old idea. It is a challenge as there are not many fast 4x5 films available. Your DOF at the wide-open aperture of most 4x5" lenses (f5.6) will be like using an f2 lens on a 35mm camera. Focus will be crucial. Using a powerful flash mitigates some of the challenges while creating some new ones.

Graflex, Wista and Linhof and some others made cameras for this purpose with built-in rangefinders.

 

[Paul Howell]

In the 40s, 50s and 60s a many action shots were taken with 4X5 press cameras. In World War II Army and Marine Corps photographers shot with Speed Graphics without rangefinder. The wire frame is often referred to as a sports finder. Lens were often somewhat wide, 127 or 135 to provide room for a crop. The trick is use the rangefinder to pre focus on the spot you pick as the point of action. If far enough way just focus to infinity. If you have a Speed Graphic with focal plane shutter make sure the shutter speeds are accurate. With Tmax400, Trix, or Delta 400 or HP5 at box speed in good daylight lighting, 1/500th of a second at F 16, with focal plan shutter at 1/1000 F11. If you are shooting backlit then you will have to adjust by 2 stops or so. Tricker at dawn or dusk, just try to keep your shutter speed up as high as lighting will allow. Unless you are forced to shoot at 125th or lower handheld is best. press cameras were designed to be hand held. If shooting with a monorail, pick a 135mm lens, heavy duty tripod, shutter cable, use the ground glass to pre focus on the point of action, ,make sure you have enough room in the shot for a crop. You have time you can make a DYI sports finder, not sure how you install one ona monorail.

Both my Graphic and Bush press cameras have sports finders, the sports finder is comprised of a front wire frame that fold up or pops up from front lens standard and a back finder that fold out from the top of the camera. Both are use for better accurate framing.

 

[Ian Grant]

Of course hand holding 4x5 is a very old idea. It is a challenge as there are not many fast 4x5 films available. Your DOF at the wide-open aperture of most 4x5" lenses (f5.6) will be like using an f2 lens on a 35mm camera. Focus will be crucial. Using a powerful flash mitigates some of the challenges while creating some new ones.

The idea of using an SLR makes quite a lot of sense. I have two 5x4 Soho Reflex cameras and had 2 5x4 Thornton Pickard Ruby Reflex cameras (one went to anew home last month). Unlike Graflex focal plane shutters, these cameras use more modern style two curtain shutters, rather than one long shutter curtain with multiple slits, and tensions.

These 5x4 SLR's need new curtains, however they will have to wait as I have been given a Half plate Soho Reflex and plan to use it with a Dallmeyer 2B Quick Acting Portrait Petzval, nominally a f4 lens, but with no Waterhouse stop it's actually f3. The plan is to make a 7x5 back.

Ian