Sharpest 120 Folder?

[Helge]

It looks noticeably better than both color skopars on my perkeo II ans E

The Voigtländer folders are notorious for bending fragile folding standards.
Could well be it. And it might very well be impercepticely little. All it takes I one second of rough handling in any of the some seventy years of existence.
Not that the Certo is much better with it’s pantograph mechanism. But it is better protected perhaps.

 

[Radost]

Build quality on both perkeos and CertoSix is great. If anything the Perkeos have less ways to fail.
The downside of the certo Six is when the rangefinder is out of alignment it is almost impossible to use

 

[Helge]

Build quality on both perkeos and CertoSix is great. If anything the Perkeos have less ways to fail.
The downside of the certo Six is when the rangefinder is out of alignment it is almost impossible to use

Trivial mechanical structures was patentable in the fifties. That meant that you either had to pay up to Agfa or Zeiss Ikon (if they even wanted your money) or fold (sic) your own.
Same reason for barn doors and lighthouse plunger on the Vitessa.
The weird focussing mechanism on the Certo Six was no doubt either a way of avoiding a patent or creating a new one.

 

[removed account4]

So hopefully you can all offer me some opinions! My criteria would be: 6x6 or preferably 6x9, under $500 (not set in stone), and with the sharpest possible lens, with corners that don't look obviously soft at small sizes. Coupled rangefinder is a plus, but not necessary.

hope you found what you were looking for cptrios .. just in case you haven't gotten it yet. you might look into anything that has coupled rangefinders zone focusing on folders is a real drag. I'm partial to the olde mamiya six folders (postwar). word of warning, the counter reset is tricky.

Could have been. Who knows what they were using for stills on the movie set.

no kidding, and that "Mansfield Industries" movie camera looks hilarious. the prop master was on the ball ...

 

[cptrios]

hope you found what you were looking for cptrios .. just in case you haven't gotten it yet. you might look into anything that has coupled rangefinders zone focusing on folders is a real drag. I'm partial to the olde mamiya six folders (postwar). word of warning, the counter reset is tricky.

I have a Super Fujica Six on the way from Japan right now. Fingers are heavily crossed.

 

[Dan Daniel]

I have a Super Fujica Six on the way from Japan right now. Fingers are heavily crossed.

(check bellows right away. Don't expect the 'double exposure prevention' interlock to work, and it's a hack mechanism anyway so you are better off with it not working. The rangefinder has a red- meaning RED- tint for some reason; you can replace the cover glass with clear glass for easier operation I found, maybe a piece of light yellow gel for tint if need be.)

 

[cptrios]

(check bellows right away. Don't expect the 'double exposure prevention' interlock to work, and it's a hack mechanism anyway so you are better off with it not working. The rangefinder has a red- meaning RED- tint for some reason; you can replace the cover glass with clear glass for easier operation I found, maybe a piece of light yellow gel for tint if need be.)

Your post earlier on in this thread was what originally piqued my interest in the camera! The seller claims the bellows are fine, but who knows. It was cheap enough (thought not cheap cheap) that including a CLA will still make it worth it if the images are good. My main hope is that it's working to an extent that I can actually judge said IQ.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

After going through a folder phase, I settled on the Voigtländer Perkeo II. The historic compact folders are ultimately tourist cameras, so not as rigid as a modern folding camera (like the Fuji GF670 or Plaubel Makina 67) or a heavier, bulkier professional camera (Linhof, Horseman, Graphic and other press/technical cameras, or rangefinders like Mamiya 7, Fujifilm “Texas Leicas,” etc.). The older 6x9 folders of this type are more prone to film flatness and lens alignment issues. I had a Bessa II with a Color Heliar, and had to stop down a fair bit to get the corners reliably sharp. 6x6 seems to be the sweet spot—compact enough to fit in a coat pocket or small pouch or in a briefcase when out and about or in the bag with another camera for a different purpose but the square format is easier to keep flat. I use a shoe mount rangefinder with mine.

 

[Helge]

After going through a folder phase, I settled on the Voigtländer Perkeo II. The historic compact folders are ultimately tourist cameras, so not as rigid as a modern folding camera (like the Fuji GF670 or Plaubel Makina 67) or a heavier, bulkier professional camera (Linhof, Horseman, Graphic and other press/technical cameras, or rangefinders like Mamiya 7, Fujifilm “Texas Leicas,” etc.). The older 6x9 folders of this type are more prone to film flatness and lens alignment issues. I had a Bessa II with a Color Heliar, and had to stop down a fair bit to get the corners reliably sharp. 6x6 seems to be the sweet spot—compact enough to fit in a coat pocket or small pouch or in a briefcase when out and about or in the bag with another camera for a different purpose but the square format is easier to keep flat. I use a shoe mount rangefinder with mine.

I’m partial to 645 format for folders.
Little bit more DoF, the lens is often the same as the 6x6 model so less vignette and more corner sharpness.
Four extra frames is nice when out and about and it’s casual.
The camera is noticeably smaller than a 6x6.
And last but not least, the film stays flatter in the smaller gate, again often with a 6x6 pressure plate.

 

[pbromaghin]

... zone focusing on folders is a real drag....

John, I have to disagree with you here. Folders with a depth of field scale are really easy to use.

 

[Helge]

John, I have to disagree with you here. Folders with a depth of field scale are really easy to use.

Developing an accurate sense of short distances is invaluable in photography.
It comes in handy surprisingly often.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

One extra plus for the Perkeo II is that you can reliably get 13 frames per roll out of them, presuming that doesn't cause filing problems for you.

 

[xya]

I had probably more than a 100 folders, most of them rangefinders. I had the best, the finest, the expensive ones. and what am I left with? only 3:
1. the smallest, a konica pearl III 4.5x6, from the mid-50s
2. the most versatile, a certo super sport dolly 6x6 with a tessar from the late 30s and
3. finally, one with a reliable meter, an iskra 2 6x6, made around 1960.
that's it. the pearl fits into any small pocket. a kind of in case of. the iskra comes with me for street photography. and for the rest, it's the certo. all of them are sharp beyond doubt.

 

[Radost]

The Konika Pearl is smaller than Perkeo I and II ?

I had probably more than a 100 folders, most of them rangefinders. I had the best, the finest, the expensive ones. and what am I left with? only 3:
1. the smallest, a konica pearl III 4.5x6, from the mid-50s
2. the most versatile, a certo super sport dolly 6x6 with a tessar from the late 30s and
3. finally, one with a reliable meter, an iskra 2 6x6, made around 1960.
that's it. the pearl fits into any small pocket. a kind of in case of. the iskra comes with me for street photography. and for the rest, it's the certo. all of them are sharp beyond doubt.

 

[xya]

The Konika Pearl is smaller than Perkeo I and II ?

I was talking about rangefinders, the perkeo I + II aren't rangefinders. perkeo size is 12.7 x 8.9 x 4.3 cm, pearl is 12.0 x 9.8 x 4.9 cm. both are small.

 

[Radost]

I was talking about rangefinders, the perkeo I + II aren't rangefinders. perkeo size is 12.7 x 8.9 x 4.3 cm, pearl is 12.0 x 9.8 x 4.9 cm. both are small.

Certo super sport doly is a rangefinder?

 

[xya]

Certo super sport doly is a rangefinder?

yes, the late ones are rangefinders indeed. there is a black housing model, until 1937. and there is a beautiful silver streamlined model from 1937 onwards, which integrates an extiction meter. have a look at my website https://www.120folder.com/certo_ssd.htm the first is the black model and if you scroll down all the way to the bottom, there is a silver model...

 

[lobitar]

Another possibility is using a tabletop tripod and rest one leg pressed against your sternum and the other two against your clavicula.
With a cable, halted breathing and careful observation of your subject, you will be able to use one 10th and 15th of a second.

Thanks for mentioning, may look into it. Thanks.

 

[Alex Varas]

yes, the late ones are rangefinders indeed. there is a black housing model, until 1937. and there is a beautiful silver streamlined model from 1937 onwards, which integrates an extiction meter. have a look at my website https://www.120folder.com/certo_ssd.htm the first is the black model and if you scroll down all the way to the bottom, there is a silver model...

I have this camera with Xenar lens, rangefinder is not working, it needs serious adjustment I’m not able, the rest is perfect. I shot it once in guess metering, lovely glass this Xenar 5 elements.
Case included.
The camera lays somewhere without being used, pm if you are interested.

 

[xya]

I have this camera with Xenar lens, rangefinder is not working, it needs serious adjustment I’m not able, the rest is perfect. I shot it once in guess metering, lovely glass this Xenar 5 elements.
Case included.
The camera lays somewhere without being used, pm if you are interested.

this camera should not be lying around. I already have 6 of these, but maybe rodost could be interested...

 

[Alex Varas]

I wish I could fix the rangefinder, truly worthy camera.

 

[henryvk]

I wish I could fix the rangefinder, truly worthy camera.

What's the trouble with the rangefinder?

 

[Alex Varas]

The beam splitter or mirror was absolutely de-silvered.
If I’m not wrong that rangefinder was joining two images up and down, if anyone has this model, could you please confirm?
I have mirrors and beam splitters but not enough patience for rangefinder (weak point)

 

[xya]

I would not touch a rangefinder either. but I will open the rangefinders of my certo dollies maybe in september to see, if I could swap the different housings without touching the basic setup. you can pm me if I forget to post this here. I have a french serviceman whom I would ask in case of a problem. we will see...

 

[Alex Varas]

Thank you, Xya, I will.
Btw, your 120folder website has been a reference to me, thank you!!