Shanghai GP3 100 220 - still an unfinished product?

[Tomro]

oh, thanks, got it. So your go-to developer for most films is DF96? I have the DF96 thread watched, so I see your great pictures there as well

 

[MattKing]

the results you guys are getting are awful similar in quality to what the shanghai website shows for its products.

on an end note here is a question.

is it better to get this 220 roll film and use it on existing 220 format mamiya spools , versus getting the camera and 220 spools, and converting them to use standard 120 spools and have the inherent issue of the altered focal plane due to backing paper moving the film off of the backing plate in the film spool?

i can get a mamiya 645 camera on ebay with 4 or 5 220 spools, for LESS then it would take to get 4 120 spools on ebay for the camera. those 120 spools can hit 100 to 150 before shipping.

I don't think you mean "spools".
For the Mamiya 645 series, you probably mean 120 vs. 220 inserts.
The two types of Mamiya 645 inserts work essentially the same - except they trigger the frame counters differently. In that series it isn't the backing plate that determines the focal plane, it is the film rails.
Where there is concern in that series, outside the frame counter issue, is that the thicker sandwich of 120 film and backing paper puts more strain on the winding mechanism of the 220 inserts and camera/back than it is designed for, and therefore high volume use may induce premature wear.
For me, the frame counter issue is determinative.

 

[Huss]

When I had a Mam 645 Pro Tl, I could see the physical difference between the 120 and 220 inserts. The pressure plate was closer to the camera back on the 220 inserts. The difference of course was very small and you could only tell if you compared the 120 and 220 directly. But it makes sense as there is no backing paper with the 220.
Which begs the question… why does 120 have backing paper if 220 doesnt need it?

 

[Huss]

oh, thanks, got it. So your go-to developer for most films is DF96? I have the DF96 thread watched, so I see your great pictures there as well

Thanks and yes, but because of the space issue. Df96 expires after a few months of being opened - whether you use it or not. But I shoot a lot so that has not been an issue for me, I exhaust it from film use.

 

[MattKing]

Which begs the question… why does 120 have backing paper if 220 doesnt need it?

Because 220 is a modern phenomena that came into being after cameras stopped depending on a red window at the back and frame numbers printed on the backing paper to track which frame you are on.
120 film first came into being over 100 years ago. It came into being before 135 film!
And I will repeat - the pressure plate doesn't establish the film plane, the camera rails do. If you and the camera can cope with more friction and wear on the gears, you can run 120 through a 220 insert - just don't blame me when you get your film back from the lab and frames 16 - 30 aren't there!

 

[Cholentpot]

A couple from my roll of GP3 220 I shot this summer. Used the Mamiya M645 and 80mm lens. @100ISO and developed in HC110B for 8min.

No issues with the film. Looks good to me. Would I buy in 220? Not sure. Scanning is a pain especially in 6x4.5 but it is nice shooting 120 film like you would 35mm.

 

[Huss]

A couple from my roll of GP3 220 I shot this summer. Used the Mamiya M645 and 80mm lens. @100ISO and developed in HC110B for 8min.

No issues with the film. Looks good to me. Would I buy in 220? Not sure. Scanning is a pain especially in 6x4.5 but it is nice shooting 120 film like you would 35mm.

Excellent!

 

[Cholentpot]

Excellent!

People hate shooting under the midday sun. I think I quite like it. Look at the detail on this.

 

[Huss]

People hate shooting under the midday sun. I think I quite like it. Look at the detail on this.

Helmut Newton loved it, and look where it got him.

 

[Cholentpot]

Helmut Newton loved it, and look where it got him.

Time to look into my next educational step I guess. Can't know everyone right?

 

[redbandit]

when you consider 5 rolls of shanghai 220 is only 65.99$ on the amazon etone store.... and ilford would mean a minimum of 90$ for th eequivalent 10 rolls... and t max is 45.00 a 5 pack...

its a draw yes. it is a draw. As mush as using old cameras is. Espescially plastic ones.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I don't shoot 220 now for the same reason I don't shoot 36exp 35mm. The reason is I don't want film sitting too long in my camera backs or bodies. The other problem I have is too many cameras to use. If I had just one camera, I could probably use 220. When I shot weddings, that was different and 220 was a blessing. One thing that 220 has going for it is there is no backing paper bleeding of numbers. Modern backing paper issues seem to have smoothed themselves out, but they are still there. As for the GP3 100 film itself? When I did use it, I thought it to be a very good film, but I've come to like Delta 100 and Foma 100 for now.

 

[relistan]

when you consider 5 rolls of shanghai 220 is only 65.99$ on the amazon etone store.... and ilford would mean a minimum of 90$ for th eequivalent 10 rolls... and t max is 45.00 a 5 pack...

its a draw yes. it is a draw. As mush as using old cameras is. Espescially plastic ones.

10 rolls of Kentmere 100 in 120 is €60. If you don't need (or want) the longer roll, it's IMO a better deal. But I'm glad GP3 is available in 220 for those who do need it.

 

[Donald Qualls]

10 rolls of Kentmere 100 in 120 is €60. If you don't need (or want) the longer roll, it's IMO a better deal.

However, until (literally) last week, the only comparably priced 120 was Fomapan or the rebranded .EDU Ultra. At least GP3 adds another option in the lower priced film category. That it comes in 220 is just a bonus for those who might want to shoot 32/24/20/16 on a roll instead of 16/12/10/8. If I'm carrying my RB67 or Century Graphic on a day hike, reducing my reloads is a good thing (those film backs are somewhat annoying and slightly hazardous -- in terms of dropping the exposed roll -- to reload without a flat, steady surface).

 

[Huss]

It's not a case of is it cheaper buying two rolls of 120 vs one roll of 220. It's case of do you want to use 220 film? When I am shooting out in the city I definitely want to use 220 as I get 32 shots per roll w/ my H1 vs 16. It is a huge deal as often it is not convenient for many reasons to have to reload - even if I carry spare backs/inserts. It takes up so much space.
That is the whole point of why 220 was created. It wasn't due to cost, it was due to convenience for those who used it.

 

[redbandit]

It's not a case of is it cheaper buying two rolls of 120 vs one roll of 220. It's case of do you want to use 220 film? When I am shooting out in the city I definitely want to use 220 as I get 32 shots per roll w/ my H1 vs 16. It is a huge deal as often it is not convenient for many reasons to have to reload - even if I carry spare backs/inserts. It takes up so much space.
That is the whole point of why 220 was created. It wasn't due to cost, it was due to convenience for those who used it.

and thats the problem in the debate.

MOST people who shoot medium format either have cameras that ONLY take 120 rolls, thus they will always vote NO on 220. Or they are in the camp like i am, with my mamiya and 120 inserts.

My camera came with ONE 120 insert, new inserts are expensive

KEH sells BRAND NEW condition 220 inserts for 12$ sans case, 14$ WITH case..
120 inserts without case in nearly unused go from 59 - 73$, 77$ WITH case.

I got a box of 6 220 inserts with cases, that need new foam pads, for 58$ plus shipping ... the use of 220 film IS worthwhile.

 

[relistan]

However, until (literally) last week, the only comparably priced 120 was Fomapan or the rebranded .EDU Ultra. At least GP3 adds another option in the lower priced film category. That it comes in 220 is just a bonus for those who might want to shoot 32/24/20/16 on a roll instead of 16/12/10/8. If I'm carrying my RB67 or Century Graphic on a day hike, reducing my reloads is a good thing (those film backs are somewhat annoying and slightly hazardous -- in terms of dropping the exposed roll -- to reload without a flat, steady surface).

It's not a case of is it cheaper buying two rolls of 120 vs one roll of 220. It's case of do you want to use 220 film? When I am shooting out in the city I definitely want to use 220 as I get 32 shots per roll w/ my H1 vs 16. It is a huge deal as often it is not convenient for many reasons to have to reload - even if I carry spare backs/inserts. It takes up so much space.
That is the whole point of why 220 was created. It wasn't due to cost, it was due to convenience for those who used it.

Agreed, I never thought it was about price. My point was that if it is about price for someone, it's not a slam dunk cheapest option. I, like @John Wiegerink, do not usually want to shoot a lot of frames on a roll, so 120 is good for me. As I said in the original post "But I'm glad GP3 is available in 220 for those who do need it."

 

[gone]

The other problem I have is too many cameras to use.

That's easy to remedy, give some of them to someone who can't afford them (hint, hint). Then you will free yourself from this awful problem.

 

[John Wiegerink]

That's easy to remedy, give some of them to someone who can't afford them (hint, hint). Then you will free yourself from this awful problem.

Yes, my wife keeps saying sell, sell, sell! She warns me that if I croak, she will either give them all away or give them to a dumpster. Maybe I should make out a camera Will? I'll put you first on the list. How's that?
I have nothing against 220 coming back to life, but I just can't see myself using much of it.

 

[redbandit]

A couple from my roll of GP3 220 I shot this summer. Used the Mamiya M645 and 80mm lens. @100ISO and developed in HC110B for 8min.

No issues with the film. Looks good to me. Would I buy in 220? Not sure. Scanning is a pain especially in 6x4.5 but it is nice shooting 120 film like you would 35mm.

it seems to handle a higher contrast different, massive brightness on one side, rather dark and shaded on other, better then ilford/kentmere, and even foma 100 in 35mm format.

 

[Cholentpot]

it seems to handle a higher contrast different, massive brightness on one side, rather dark and shaded on other, better then ilford/kentmere, and even foma 100 in 35mm format.

It's good stuff. I used loads of it back when you could get a brick of it in 120 for $10.

 

[John Wiegerink]

It's good stuff. I used loads of it back when you could get a brick of it in 120 for $10.

That's when I used it the most. When the price went way up I went to Ilford films since the cost was just a little more than GP3. I did buy a couple of boxes of GP3 4X5 since their sheet film is still pretty cheap.

 

[Cholentpot]

That's when I used it the most. When the price went way up I went to Ilford films since the cost was just a little more than GP3. I did buy a couple of boxes of GP3 4X5 since their sheet film is still pretty cheap.

I wrote to them and told them it was the only reason why people were shooting your film. Because it was cheap. It seems that it's still that price in China but they jacked it up everywhere else.

 

[ic-racer]

It's not a case of is it cheaper buying two rolls of 120 vs one roll of 220. It's case of do you want to use 220 film? When I am shooting out in the city I definitely want to use 220 as I get 32 shots per roll w/ my H1 vs 16. It is a huge deal as often it is not convenient for many reasons to have to reload - even if I carry spare backs/inserts. It takes up so much space.
That is the whole point of why 220 was created. It wasn't due to cost, it was due to convenience for those who used it.

^^ This

 

[John Wiegerink]

I wrote to them and told them it was the only reason why people were shooting your film. Because it was cheap. It seems that it's still that price in China but they jacked it up everywhere else.

The price rise coincided with the deal made with CatLabs. Obviously, CatLabs wouldn't make the deal unless Shanghai Film assured them that they wouldn't undercut CatLabs pricing structure. The thing that amazes me is that some private Chinese fellow isn't running "black market" GP3 film cheap on the big auction site. Well, I guess this isn't about pricing, but about GP3 220 film, so I'll leave it there.