Separating old negatives stuck together

[Romanko]

I have 6x9 cm negatives from probably 1930s that were stored in an envelope for decades and stuck/glued together, see pictures. What would you try to separate them? I was going to try soaking in distilled water, photoflo solution or ethanol (stock or diluted). Any other ideas?

 

[Don_ih]

Probably the only thing you can do is soak them in distilled water with some photoflo. Looks like there's nothing to lose at this point. Let the water work at it, though. My bet is they'll split all to pieces if you try to pry them apart.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Certainly what @Don Heisz said. Not sure if I would bother with distilled water, but can't hurt either. I would add a bit more Photoflo than for normal film soak after processing and then wash each separately in water with final standard Photoflo soak before drying.

In the end it all depends how they got stuck to begin with. You may get lucky and see them all mostly intact.

 

[Don_ih]

Not sure if I would bother with distilled water

Not a whole lot of reason to use distilled water, except it doesn't already have anything dissolved in it. Maybe a little alkalinity would help.

 

[removed account4]

Hi Romanko,
Sorry to see that messed up film, it does look like it could be fun as it is though. ..
Years ago Aaron Siskind and Harry Callahan were traveling together and they stoped at some somewhere and photographed a wrecked hospital. AS was taking photographs of the paint and stuff he was photographing and HC picked up a bunch of X-rays that were melted and fused together. He made contact prints of them. If you can't separate the films ( I don't think you will be able to and when you do they will kind of be ruined ) I'd just put paper underneath and make contact prints of your fused negatives.

Good luck!

John

 

[Romanko]

I'd just put paper underneath and make contact prints of your fused negatives

Hi John,
Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, the negatives are too dense/opaque.

You are probably right, I will be surprised if I could restore any images from them but it's worth a try.

The negatives have been soaking in Photo Flo solution for almost half an hour now. There's some visible change in them but it is too early to tell. I might leave them overnight.
If that does not work I'll try film-compatible solvents: ethanol, isopropyl and maybe hydrocarbon (shellite/naphta). All technical grade ~100% concentration.

Regards,
Romanko

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Hi John,
Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, the negatives are too dense/opaque.

You are probably right, I will be surprised if I could restore any images from them but it's worth a try.

The negatives have been soaking in Photo Flo solution for almost half an hour now. There's some visible change in them but it is too early to tell. I might leave them overnight.
If that does not work I'll try film-compatible solvents: ethanol, isopropyl and maybe hydrocarbon (shellite/naphta). All technical grade ~100% concentration.

Regards,
Romanko

Overnight is the least before you could expect a reaction to dried up emulsions. Unless they visibly float away before, I would not touch before then.

Naphtha might help if this does not.

I'd be interested to know how this works out in the end.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Probably the only thing you can do is soak them in distilled water with some photoflo. Looks like there's nothing to lose at this point. Let the water work at it, though. My bet is they'll split all to pieces if you try to pry them apart.

There's no hope for these; sorry about your loss.

 

[Romanko]

Surprisingly, I had some success separating the negatives. I lost some emulsion at the edges of each frame but the rest was preserved. I did exactly what you suggested: left the stuck negatives in a photo flo solution for several days. We are heading into the summer in Australia with the daily temperatures above 30 oC so I put the negatives in a jar and kept it in the fridge for a couple of days agitating gently once or twice a day. (Disclaimer: My wife is a former chemist. Your mileage can differ significantly when you decide to put photographic chemicals in a family fridge). I left the negatives in the solution (still cold) and letting it slowly come to room temperature before hanging the negatives to dry. I'll post the pictures once they are dry and safe to scan.

Is there anything I can do at this stage to further preserve them? Would you harden them? I personally don't think it is necessary but I would like to hear your opinions.

Thanks a lot for your replies. Even the most pessimistic comments were strangely encouraging, sort of "go ahead, there's nothing to lose".

Regards,
Romanko

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Encouraging to know things at least partially worked out. Personally I'm not an expert on preservations methods, but I doubt there is much else you can do except keep them in archival sleeves/boxes and not in high humidity conditions if possible.

Can't wait to see what they look like.

 

[tokam]

Well done so far. The scans will probably show a lot of damage which can be fixed up in post with Photoshop / Gimp etc. Think healing brush and clone stamp and similar tools. It's unlikely that you will attempt to wet print from these negs and I would be focusing my efforts on a good quality scan and then hours of post processing to clean them up. Then make sure you have plenty of backups of your cleaned scans. I usually keep separate backups of (i) raw TIF file from the scanner, (ii) The TIF file after removing dust and scratches and (iii) the JPG final files after any Levels / Brightness / Contrast adjustments etc. At this point the negs are a historical artifact but not as important as the best images that you can extract from them.

 

[Don_ih]

It's good to know it worked well. The quality of the images at this point would not be as important as having them (which you didn't when they were a block of toffee). It can be interesting to make prints from damaged negatives (and sometimes repaired damage can make a photo look like a still from Gumby and Pokey). A print (even a digital one) is probably the best preservation. After you're dead, no one will be looking at your scans but they may find prints.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I am happy to see that you are having success with separating the negatives. When you have each negative cleaned up be sure to hang them to day out completely.

 

[Romanko]

Here are some of the images that I recovered. Thanks again for your help.
If you ever have to do something similar my advice is to be patient. It takes several days for water / photo flo to penetrate between the negatives. It might be a good idea to keep the negatives cool while they are soaking. I changed the solution several times as some of the emulsion was dissolvingand I did not want it to re-deposit on the film.

 

[Don_ih]

Looks like it was well worth the time and effort.

 

[john_s]

Well done!

 

[Kino]

Those are great images that were well worth the time and effort!

 

[Sirius Glass]

I am glad that we could help and that your well spent time and effort paid off.

 

[Pitotshock]

Incredible results given the age and condition shown above. Nicely done!

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Fantastic and an encouraging lesson for many who will have found themselves in similar position.

 

[LLF]

Hi Romanko - sorry to restart this old thread, but I have exactly the same problem, I have a block of 1930s negatives that looks exactly like your before pic... can I ask for more detailed instructions.. how much Photo Flo did you use for instance? When you kept them in the fridge, were they flat or upright? etc?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hi Romanko - sorry to restart this old thread, but I have exactly the same problem, I have a block of 1930s negatives that looks exactly like your before pic... can I ask for more detailed instructions.. how much Photo Flo did you use for instance? When you kept them in the fridge, were they flat or upright? etc?

Welcome to APUG Photrio!!​

 

[Romanko]

Hi Romanko - sorry to restart this old thread, but I have exactly the same problem,

No problem, this is what this thread is for.

I used standard Photo Flo solution (1 + 200). The negatives were placed in a jar with the solution in an upright position. I let them soak for 2 or 3 days in the fridge. I changed the solution once or twice. The goal is to soften the emulsion enough to separate the sheets but not too much to lose adhesion to the substrate. There is no guarantee that this is always possible, but it worked for me to some extend.

The best advice I can give you is to be patient and handle the negatives very gently. It is very tempting to start separating them before they have soaked enough. This is how I ruined the first frame. Good luck and please share you experience in this thread.

 

[Tim Stapp]

This process indicates why the local "Disaster Reclamation Company" get the BIG insurance dollars that they do for just what you did.

They have a team of 3-5 people that "Recover from fire/flood damage" photos and negatives. It's been a few years since I was there. They probably went out business because insurance companies quit paying for such restoration services.

 

[awty]

Here are some of the images that I recovered. Thanks again for your help.
If you ever have to do something similar my advice is to be patient. It takes several days for water / photo flo to penetrate between the negatives. It might be a good idea to keep the negatives cool while they are soaking. I changed the solution several times as some of the emulsion was dissolvingand I did not want it to re-deposit on the film.

View attachment 293802 View attachment 293803 View attachment 293804

Great work, looks like they were taken in Queensland, judging by the house on stilts and the clothes......like that Nanna put on her pearls for the photo.