Searching for a good concert 35mm Compact Camera

[RobbieMnemonic]

Something that hasn't been mentioned(yet) is the situation with spotlights on stage.
With an averaging meter which means most compacts. It is very possible to burn out the highlights entirely.
Ever seen a snapshot where the stage is dark and there's a white blob on someone's shoulders?

But with that the Olympus SP does have a spotmeter function.......http://www.kenrockwell.com/olympus/35-sp.htm

***Another thought is the size of the viewfinider. The SP and GIII 1,7 are decent sized. Compact cameras VF's can be pretty squinty.

Good point! I am actually looking at both of those as good options as well! Thanks!

The lens is only 35mm and the max aperture is f/2.8 for the XA and f/3.5 for the XA2. Film with speed higher than 800 is not really usable. No manual exposure control. For the kind of concert lighting it's better to have manual exposure control.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards a compact rangefinder or something like that now I think. Some of them are certainly small enough where I shouldn't have a problem I would think. (I hope! lol)

Most point and shoot zooms exposure and shutter speed is all auto, there is no read out, you dont know what your aperture or shutter speed is, a few of the more advanced models and brands give more information. So in this case, by turning on the flash you know that the shutter speed will be hand holdable, you tape over the flash so it does give away to the staff and the flash will not reach the stage anyway. All you can do is shoot , push, and pray. You can pick up any number for point and shoots for under $20, I get mine for a just few dollars. Pentax IQ zoom ranged as long as 180 and 200, the lens are quite good for a budget camera. You will need to send your film to a custom lab for push processing. I think Blue Moon will push film.

Taping over a flash is a good idea! Didn't think of that.

Best fit from what I have seen would be a compact fixed lens rangefinder. Faster lenses that can be a bit longer, some had 40-45mm f/1.7 which is a whole lot more light than the P&S which only ever had f/2.8 (except for the bulky Canon ML which was 40/1.9). AF in a concert setting is asking for trouble and any of the P&S compacts that had manual focus and more settings are going to run $2-600. There even is a Yashica Lynx 14E that has a 45/1.4 but that's basically as big as a small SLR so might get too much attention. A lot of the compacts were 35mm and that's a different scene than the 40mm.

Manual focus would be easy to set once and basically forget about it, unless you totally changed where you were shooting. Manual setting of aperture and shutter would allow you to underexpose as much as you like, and you could have the shop develop the film however you wanted.

Last suggestions would be to do a search or three on Flickr for the venue and see what other film shots look like, what a Stylus Epic can get you for results in low light and what some of the other options might do for you. I would not want to be trying to remember to shut off the Epic's flash...but that's why I don't have any of them any more after trying them several, several times.

Thanks!

There are two aspects to the question, what is ideal, and what will get past the bouncers. The answer to the first is easy, an SLR with a 50mm or 80mm f1.2 lens. The second is trickier, and means finding the most inoffensive camera available in the hope the bag search will conclude you don't have a clue what you're doing, and let you pass as a harmless idiot. Go for something pink with hello kitty stickers and you should be good.

LOL! Yeah, I don't think I'll have problem, provided its tiny and doesn't have a interchangeable lens. I'll should just sticker up a Mamiya 7 or something with hello kitty like you said. lol!

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

Does anyone know how loud stuff like the Olympus LC/SP, Canonet, and Yashica Electro are? Do you think it will bother anyone in the audience if I take a shot here and there?

 

[Paul Howell]

My pentax point and shoot are very quite, the Canon QL 1.7 is even quiter as there is no motor drive.

 

[MattKing]

Unless they have battery operated winders, the compact cameras are really quiet. You may find them so quiet that you will be unsure whether the shutter actually released.

 

[Fixcinater]

SP has a fairly distinctive "ting" or snap, Canonet is quieter and the Electro is pretty quiet as well but only works in auto exposure mode or 1/500th if there is no battery.

If you have a half case, it would make it even quieter. They are all really quiet compared to most 35mm SLRs.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

My pentax point and shoot are very quite, the Canon QL 1.7 is even quiter as there is no motor drive.

Unless they have battery operated winders, the compact cameras are really quiet. You may find them so quiet that you will be unsure whether the shutter actually released.

SP has a fairly distinctive "ting" or snap, Canonet is quieter and the Electro is pretty quiet as well but only works in auto exposure mode or 1/500th if there is no battery.

If you have a half case, it would make it even quieter. They are all really quiet compared to most 35mm SLRs.

Thanks all!!

 

[mynewcolour]

The argument for a 50mm 1.8 or a 35 2.8 is not everything.

Yes the 50 is a stop faster ... but it benefits from a stop more shutter speed to be sharp handheld. And whilst the angle of view may be preferable in this case, the shallow DoF may not. Just a thought.

More important is getting a camera that can expose enough for your film. So that means either it needs to be usable in full manual, or have high ISO settings. Whichever rangefinder you consider, check for that.

 

[dmr]

My pentax point and shoot are very quite, the Canon QL 1.7 is even quiter as there is no motor drive.

I do agree that the QL17 is very quiet, but at a concert, seriously, I would not worry about shutter noise at all.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

The argument for a 50mm 1.8 or a 35 2.8 is not everything.

Yes the 50 is a stop faster ... but it benefits from a stop more shutter speed to be sharp handheld. And whilst the angle of view may be preferable in this case, the shallow DoF may not. Just a thought.

More important is getting a camera that can expose enough for your film. So that means either it needs to be usable in full manual, or have high ISO settings. Whichever rangefinder you consider, check for that.

I do agree that the QL17 is very quiet, but at a concert, seriously, I would not worry about shutter noise at all.

Thanks again! I am still looking at options. So many things to consider and I'm trying to keep cost down best I can, so its a tough choice! lol!

 

[mynewcolour]

So long as you don't buy a lemon, you can usually get close to your money back on resale (when you want to try something different). It's not like d*g*tal.

 

[flavio81]

Does anyone know how loud stuff like the Olympus LC/SP, Canonet, and Yashica Electro are? Do you think it will bother anyone in the audience if I take a shot here and there?

Olympus SP is ugly loud.
Yashica Electro 35 has a quiet shutter but the film winding is loud.
Yashica Lynx cameras are quiet

But on a CONCERT nobody will hear any of these cameras, unless you are in a soft passage.

 

[flavio81]

PS -

I have shot many concerts in the past and I wouldn't choose any of those rangefinders you're considering. I would use a camera with a QUICK acting light meter, which rules out all CdS-meter cameras. You want a camera with a SPD (silicon photodiode) or similar meter, and better if the camera has auto exposure, even better if it has AE lock. This is based on the assumption that the light levels are changing all the time (typical on rock concerts).

I used the Canon A-1 a lot for concerts, it has a very good meter. I could focus on low light was well, but my lenses were either f1.2 (55m) or f2.8 (24/135/200). I set the camera on auto exposure and compensated using the exposure compensation dial. For example if the subject's face is going to be lit by a spot light you want to apply +2 stop compensation; if it's (for example) a guy that is not well lit, on a black background and with a dark instrument (i.e. a piano), you want to apply -2 stop compensation. I used Superia 1600 film which is fantastic for this application, as well as Superia 800. I think Cinestill 800T should be even better, being tungsten and lower contrast. I also used sometimes the 80C filter to correct the light color.

In theory a camera with OTF TTL (off the film plane through the lens metering) like the Olympus OM-2 could be better for these assignments.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

So long as you don't buy a lemon, you can usually get close to your money back on resale (when you want to try something different). It's not like d*g*tal.

Very true. I have been rethinking things slightly and raised my budget a tad. Now I'm looking at the Contax TVS since it has ISO up to 5000. If I were to shoot at like 1600 and use the flash taped off to make sure my shutter speed stays up enough for handheld shooting, do you think I'd do ok? Or am I nuts? lol

Olympus SP is ugly loud.
Yashica Electro 35 has a quiet shutter but the film winding is loud.
Yashica Lynx cameras are quiet

But on a CONCERT nobody will hear any of these cameras, unless you are in a soft passage.

That is a good point.

PS -

I have shot many concerts in the past and I wouldn't choose any of those rangefinders you're considering. I would use a camera with a QUICK acting light meter, which rules out all CdS-meter cameras. You want a camera with a SPD (silicon photodiode) or similar meter, and better if the camera has auto exposure, even better if it has AE lock. This is based on the assumption that the light levels are changing all the time (typical on rock concerts).

I used the Canon A-1 a lot for concerts, it has a very good meter. I could focus on low light was well, but my lenses were either f1.2 (55m) or f2.8 (24/135/200). I set the camera on auto exposure and compensated using the exposure compensation dial. For example if the subject's face is going to be lit by a spot light you want to apply +2 stop compensation; if it's (for example) a guy that is not well lit, on a black background and with a dark instrument (i.e. a piano), you want to apply -2 stop compensation. I used Superia 1600 film which is fantastic for this application, as well as Superia 800. I think Cinestill 800T should be even better, being tungsten and lower contrast. I also used sometimes the 80C filter to correct the light color.

In theory a camera with OTF TTL (off the film plane through the lens metering) like the Olympus OM-2 could be better for these assignments.

Since it is just for fun for a few shots in the audience, I'm not able to do the SLR thing. (Too big, pro cameras not allowed, etc.) I'm trying to do something with a compact.

 

[mynewcolour]

Olympus SP is ugly loud.
Yashica Electro 35 has a quiet shutter but the film winding is loud.
Yashica Lynx cameras are quiet

But on a CONCERT nobody will hear any of these cameras, unless you are in a soft passage.

For what it's worth ... the 35 'S' is quiet, with a very nice feel to the release (and quite short travel for a mechanical leaf shutter release).

I found it a really nice camera, I'd like to try the 'S Wide' with the 35mm f2.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

So, I took everything everyone said into account, and decided to go with.... DRUMROLL....

The Olympus LT-1 QD! Basically, its the same camera as the Mju 1, but with a sweet little leather wallet body and built in cover.
It does up to ISO3200 (DX only), has a 35mm f3.5 lens, and shutter speeds from 1/15 to 1/500th. So, while it gives me pretty much no control, I think I might be able to pull off some nice snapshots with it. Got it on eBay for $50! Seems like it works great!

Thanks for all the input on options everyone. I ended up not getting anything we talked about (well, I guess we kind of did since its a Mju 1) but I saw it and thought this was a great deal!

 

[mynewcolour]

Nice. Security will just see a glasses case.

Are you planning to hack the dx code or just use flash?

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

Nice. Security will just see a glasses case.

Are you planning to hack the dx code or just use flash?

Yup! Very stealthy. I think I'll probably scratch the DX code off and shoot at either 1600 or 3200. What would you do? Should I go all the way to 3200? And how do you think I should process it? I'm not sure what might be best.

 

[narsuitus]

I'm trying to decide on a good 35mm film compact camera to use at a concert.

Contax G1 with 90mm f/2.8 Zeiss lens

 

[mynewcolour]

What would you do?

As mentioned, I'd shoot (whatever film) with the flash, but I'd be shooting around the event (not specifically the performance). I'd not really be interested in documenting the performance — there will be a pro with pro equipment and access pass better able to do that.

You can push Cinestill 800 two or even three stops. It can look quite soft (pehaps due to lack of anti-halination layer) from what I've seen.

 

[mynewcolour]

Contax G1 with 90mm f/2.8 Zeiss lens

Late and out of budget but a good idea. How well does that combo focus in low light?

 

[Hatchetman]

Post some shots when you get them. I am interested in this subject. Always looking for new approaches.

 

[Fixcinater]

Nice camera, should be fun. I just gave a Mju I to a friend who has just started down the path of film after a few years of DSLR use and he loves the little Olympus.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

Contax G1 with 90mm f/2.8 Zeiss lens

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, that would be great but it is outside of my price range and bigger than I'd like. Thanks though!

As mentioned, I'd shoot (whatever film) with the flash, but I'd be shooting around the event (not specifically the performance). I'd not really be interested in documenting the performance — there will be a pro with pro equipment and access pass better able to do that.

You can push Cinestill 800 two or even three stops. It can look quite soft (pehaps due to lack of anti-halination layer) from what I've seen.

Gotcha. I am going to test it out a little and see what happens. Thanks!

Post some shots when you get them. I am interested in this subject. Always looking for new approaches.

Will do!

Nice camera, should be fun. I just gave a Mju I to a friend who has just started down the path of film after a few years of DSLR use and he loves the little Olympus.

The LT-1/Mju 1 seems really nice! I'm looking forward to trying it out!

 

[narsuitus]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, that would be great but it is outside of my price range and bigger than I'd like. Thanks though!

A used Contax G1 white label version cost less than $100.

With the lens removed, the Contax G1 body is the size of a compact point & shoot and easily fits in a pocket.

 

[narsuitus]

How well does that combo focus in low light?

The Contax G1 white label version has slow auto focus but manual focus is possible.