Searching for a good concert 35mm Compact Camera

[RobbieMnemonic]

I like the manual Olympus (35 S, 35 LC) but there are very similar cameras from most of the Japanese makers. Search for the 'Poor Man's Leica' thread.

Remember your POV is going to be low so you might want to get in close to make an interesting frame (hence 70-200 zoom). Any idea what ISO the Sony shot at?

Not 100% sure without checking, but it was definitely either ISO 3200 or 6400. f/2.8 with a shutter around 1/125 or 1/250 or something to that effect. Basically most of the shots I took with the Sony RX100 were around those settings. I'll check out your suggestions for camera online here! Thanks!

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

Yeah, I know. I more or less just wanted to give it a shot for practice and the hell of it.

Truth be told, you will be very hard pressed to find a film/lens combination that can do lowlight as well as your RX100.

 

[blockend]

The Pentax Espio 200 had the longest telephoto of any compact camera, but at the long end you're down to about f8 so you'd need to seriously push the film. I can't remember what the maximum ISO is and mine is packed awaiting a move.

 

[Chan Tran]

If I were you I simply enjoy the concert and not taking any pictures. None of the 35mm compact would work. They either don't have sufficient zoom nor fast enough lens. Even something like a full size 35mm SLR would still have problem at 50ft distance. If you insist on pictures may be you will have to go to the dark side because concert is DARK.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

It looks like a pretty cool camera, but I think its more like f/5 to 13 according to a search I did. Still, I like the range of that! Might be cool to have for another better lit situation!

The Pentax Espio 200 had the longest telephoto of any compact camera, but at the long end you're down to about f8 so you'd need to seriously push the film. I can't remember what the maximum ISO is and mine is packed awaiting a move.

Yeah, I was way wrong on the distance. I'm more like 10 to 20 ft from the stage. To get an idea of the cinestill 800T in this kind of a situation, see this link. I was hoping to get a a dozen shots that might look something like some of these. https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=cinestill concert

If I were you I simply enjoy the concert and not taking any pictures. None of the 35mm compact would work. They either don't have sufficient zoom nor fast enough lens. Even something like a full size 35mm SLR would still have problem at 50ft distance. If you insist on pictures may be you will have to go to the dark side because concert is DARK.

 

[Alan Gales]

What do you all think of cameras like these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/262845701579

https://www.ebay.com/itm/291404401889

https://www.ebay.com/itm/321881855249

Not much. My mother-in-law used to shoot cameras like that. They were all right for 4x6 prints. She wanted a photo enlarged to 5x7 so I took it with my Contax SLR.

I'd want an SLR with a Zoom or better a DSLR with Zoom. I love film but digital excels in low light.

 

[pentaxuser]

At as little as 10-20ft I'd have thought the Olympus Stylus(mjuII in Europe, I think) would fit the bill. It is a 35mm with a superb fixed f2.8 lens, so fast enough and with the right depth of view. It will also fit into the hand and then back into the pocket easily. It barely even resembles a camera. Frankly if there are other members of the audience next to you I'd have thought that a f2.8 zoom would be (a) an annoyance to them and (b) if they didn't complain then the concert security men will quickly spot a zoom and put a stop to its use.

pentaxuser

 

[mynewcolour]

At as little as 10-20ft I'd have thought the Olympus Stylus(mjuII in Europe, I think) would fit the bill. It is a 35mm with a superb fixed f2.8 lens, so fast enough and with the right depth of view. It will also fit into the hand and then back into the pocket easily. It barely even resembles a camera. Frankly if there are other members of the audience next to you I'd have thought that a f2.8 zoom would be (a) an annoyance to them and (b) if they didn't complain then the concert security men will quickly spot a zoom and put a stop to its use.

pentaxuser

Great cameras. I use them at gigs sometimes. I still think at a seated concert you're not going to be close enough with 35mm lens for shots to be interesting ... but ... I'm happy if I'm proven wrong!

These are some gig shots I've taken with a MjuII. Don't let these put you off.

:-0

 

[pentaxuser]

I have re-read my post and now realise I should have said the right breadth of view with a 35mm. If there are a group of people that need to be in the picture at 10-20 feet over the area of a stage then a 35mm lens is probably the best one in terms of breadth of view. At f4 there is roughly a span of 12 feet to fifty feet depth of view and with a fast film the shutter speed should be well within the hand-held limit.

Best of luck

pentaxuser

 

[John Koehrer]

Using anything with DX coding may be problematic either from ISO to limitation of the cameras
shutter, or inability to use a manual override.

The option for Olympus 35SP or Canon GIII QL17
Both have fast lenses at 40 & 42mm 1.7's
Disadvantage? Designed for the discontinued PX625 or PX13 batteries. These can both be
substituted or adapted for newer batteries.

I'm partial to the Canon myself, it's a bit more compact.

 

[Paul Howell]

The Pentax Espio 200 had the longest telephoto of any compact camera, but at the long end you're down to about f8 so you'd need to seriously push the film. I can't remember what the maximum ISO is and mine is packed awaiting a move.

I have the Pentax with the 180 lens, what I would do is tape over the flash and leave it on so the camera thinks your shooting with flash and your shutter speed will be hand holdable. I belive Then shoot under exposed and push by 2 stops. I have not used the 800 Ciniushpoedit in qvvlleacve but lefqol

The Pentax Espio 200 had the longest telephoto of any compact camera, but at the long end you're down to about f8 so you'd need to seriously push the film. I can't remember what the maximum ISO is and mine is packed awaiting a move.

Here is what I would do, the Pentax IQ Zooms will DX set the ISO up to ISO 1000, so I would tape over the flash, but leave it on so the camera will set the shutter speed to a hand holdable speed, just shoot under exposed shoot and push the T 800 by 2 stops.

 

[dmr]

This is a total slop-shot hail-mary over-the head with an Olympus Stylus Zoom maybe 10 years ago. I've managed to get this in several places with a bag inspection.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

Oh man! So many posts! Sorry. Yesterday I had a lot going on so couldn't keep up. Thanks all! Replies below!​

Not much. My mother-in-law used to shoot cameras like that. They were all right for 4x6 prints. She wanted a photo enlarged to 5x7 so I took it with my Contax SLR.

I'd want an SLR with a Zoom or better a DSLR with Zoom. I love film but digital excels in low light.

Yeah, I'm just really trying for fun and what not. I'd love to bring my Mamiya DSX1000 but its way too chunky. lol! ​

At as little as 10-20ft I'd have thought the Olympus Stylus(mjuII in Europe, I think) would fit the bill. It is a 35mm with a superb fixed f2.8 lens, so fast enough and with the right depth of view. It will also fit into the hand and then back into the pocket easily. It barely even resembles a camera. Frankly if there are other members of the audience next to you I'd have thought that a f2.8 zoom would be (a) an annoyance to them and (b) if they didn't complain then the concert security men will quickly spot a zoom and put a stop to its use.

pentaxuser

The mjuII is definitely in the top running for me. So many have suggested it now! Thanks!​

Great cameras. I use them at gigs sometimes. I still think at a seated concert you're not going to be close enough with 35mm lens for shots to be interesting ... but ... I'm happy if I'm proven wrong!

These are some gig shots I've taken with a MjuII. Don't let these put you off.

:-0

View attachment 173362 View attachment 173363 View attachment 173364 View attachment 173365 View attachment 173366 View attachment 173367

Do you think something with a 50mm at 10-20ft would be a better way to go? That is probably the best I can get for a fixed lens compact with 2.8 or better. The shots you showed are about the kind I am looking for. Obviously, the better I can make it work, the happier I'll be, but I'm not expecting the world on it. ​

I have re-read my post and now realise I should have said the right breadth of view with a 35mm. If there are a group of people that need to be in the picture at 10-20 feet over the area of a stage then a 35mm lens is probably the best one in terms of breadth of view. At f4 there is roughly a span of 12 feet to fifty feet depth of view and with a fast film the shutter speed should be well within the hand-held limit.

Best of luck

pentaxuser

I get so mixed up with the hyper-focal length stuff. So with a 35mm at f/4 using ISO800 film pushed a few stops, I get 12ft to 50ft in front of me in focus roughly? How would a 50mm lens come out? Is there a good reference for the hyper-focal length you can point me too? I decent calculator that is easy to understand?​

Using anything with DX coding may be problematic either from ISO to limitation of the cameras
shutter, or inability to use a manual override.

The option for Olympus 35SP or Canon GIII QL17
Both have fast lenses at 40 & 42mm 1.7's
Disadvantage? Designed for the discontinued PX625 or PX13 batteries. These can both be
substituted or adapted for newer batteries.

I'm partial to the Canon myself, it's a bit more compact.

Thanks! Yeah, its preferable to be able to manually set ISO, but I also might use a label or scratch the DX Coding or something to make it work. ​

I have the Pentax with the 180 lens, what I would do is tape over the flash and leave it on so the camera thinks your shooting with flash and your shutter speed will be hand holdable. I belive Then shoot under exposed and push by 2 stops. I have not used the 800 Ciniushpoedit in qvvlleacve but lefqol


Here is what I would do, the Pentax IQ Zooms will DX set the ISO up to ISO 1000, so I would tape over the flash, but leave it on so the camera will set the shutter speed to a hand holdable speed, just shoot under exposed shoot and push the T 800 by 2 stops.

On the Pentax IQ zooms, the DX will set it to 800 and then there is an option to push the EV by 2 stops on the camera? Is that what you mean? ​

This is a total slop-shot hail-mary over-the head with an Olympus Stylus Zoom maybe 10 years ago. I've managed to get this in several places with a bag inspection.

Hey, that isn't too shabby! Neat looking overview shot! Thanks for the sample! ​

 

[mynewcolour]

Personally I'd use a normal lens or just wide of it. I can't know what shot you want but I can talk about some considerations...

Shooting a manual focus 50 wide open through a relatively dark SLR viewfinder means some missed shots usually. The DoF is shallow. A good rangefinder changes that. At a seated concert with static subjects a 50 could work ok. A wider lens lets you hand-hold the shot a stop slower anyway, so a sharp 35 2.8 is good, now you just have to get close enough to the subject.

A Nikon L35AF lets you set iso manually (upto 1000). The flash will pop up on half-press of the shutter release, you push it back in to prevent it firing.

Just a thought about exposure... over expose. If you shoot Cinestill 800 @ 800 that's ok. Exposing it @ 1000 and pushing it to 1600, or @ 1600 and pushing it to 3200 will probably look give better negs and scans.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

Personally I'd use a normal lens or just wide of it. I can't know what shot you want but I can talk about some considerations...

Shooting a manual focus 50 wide open through a dark SLR viewfinder means some missed shots usually. The DoF is shallow. A good rangefinder changes that. At a seated concert with static subjects a 50 could work ok. A wider lens lets you hand-hold the shot a stop slower anyway, so a sharp 35 2.8 is good, now you just have to get close enough to the subject.

Gotcha! That makes sense! ​

A Nikon L35AF lets you set iso manually (upto 1000). The flash will pop up on half-press of the shutter release, you push it back in to prevent it firing.

Just a thought about exposure... over expose. If you shoot Cinestill 800 @ 800 that's ok. Exposing it @ 1000 and pushing it to 1600, or @ 1600 and pushing it to 3200 will probably look give better negs and scans.

OK, to break this down you are saying shoot the film at 800ISO, but them when I have it developed (I send it out because I don't want to deal with the chemicals. lol) I tell the lab to push it a stop or two? Sorry... I'm a film dummy. Learning still.

What I'm taking away from this is:

Shoot Cinestill 800T at ISO800, at f2.8 (35mm lens) and shutter speeds of 1/125?

The send to lab and tell them to push 1 or 2 stops?​

 

[mynewcolour]

OK, to break this down you are saying shoot the film at 800ISO, but them when I have it developed (I send it out because I don't want to deal with the chemicals. lol) I tell the lab to push it a stop or two? Sorry... I'm a film dummy. Learning still.

What I'm taking away from this is:

Shoot Cinestill 800T at ISO800, at f2.8 (35mm lens) and shutter speeds of 1/125?

The send to lab and tell them to push 1 or 2 stops?​

The box ratings for cinestill are a little optimistic and the scenes you are shooting will probably be high contrast. The meter in a camera doesn't know these things, it just sees a dx code and spotlights.

You can effectively substitute increased exposure with push processing (just as you say).

A steady hand and a 35mm lens should be ok down to ~1/30s. How still you and the subject remains obviously matters. The camera matters a bit too.

I can't tell you exactly what settings, I'd need to see exactly the scene.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

The box ratings for cinestill are a little optimistic and the scenes you are shooting will probably be high contrast. The meter in a camera doesn't know these things, it just sees a dx code and spotlights.

You can effectively substitute increased exposure with push processing (just as you say).

A steady hand and a 35mm lens should be ok down to ~1/30s. How still you and the subject remains obviously matters. The camera matters a bit too.

I can't tell you exactly what settings, I'd need to see exactly the scene.

I think I am getting it. I was looking online at various options and came across the Olympus XA and XA2 models. What does everyone think of those as options? How do they compare to the mju II?

 

[mynewcolour]

The XA is the version with a rangefinder (it's a faint focusing patch though) and aperture priority. The XA2 is zone focus and auto. Both are pretty neat.

I used an XA2 for street photography for a bit. It's amazingly fast to use. Being zone focus I found it pretty useless focusing indoors (unless shooting very fast film. For this gig you'll be in a large room and focused to infinity (probably). It should work.

They have the enclosed case design so are really handy. Both are worth the money the they go for.

 

[Chan Tran]

I have both the XA and the XA2. I don't think either is suitable for concert.

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

The XA is the version with a rangefinder (it's a faint focusing patch though). The XA2 is zone focus. Both are pretty neat.

I used an XA2 for street photography for a bit. Being zone focus I found it pretty useless focusing indoors (unless shooting very fast film. For this gig you'll be in a large room and focused to infinity (probably). It should work.

They have the enclosed case design so are really handy. Both are worth the money the they go for.

Awesome! I asked the right person then!

I like that it has that detachable flash. That way I don't have to worry about making a mistake and firing it. lol

So on the XA2, you don't set the aperture it looks like? You just set the zone and ISO and shoot? According to the instruction manual, it says scenic shot mode focuses from 8.3ft to infinity. So I'd use that I'm thinking?

 

[mynewcolour]

^^ What compact would you recommend?

 

[RobbieMnemonic]

I have both the XA and the XA2. I don't think either is suitable for concert.

What are the cons for those in your opinion?

 

[mynewcolour]

Awesome! I asked the right person then!

I like that it has that detachable flash. That way I don't have to worry about making a mistake and firing it. lol

So on the XA2, you don't set the aperture it looks like? You just set the zone and ISO and shoot? According to the instruction manual, it says scenic shot mode focuses from 8.3ft to infinity. So I'd use that I'm thinking?

Yeah the flash almost doubles the size and weight. I use flash so a MjuII is far better.

On the XA2 all you control is iso (up to 800 IIRC) and rudimentary zone focus. You may want to read up a little on zone focus if it's new to you. The further the subject is from the film plane the easier it gets! (worst instruction ever but you get the idea). And yes go with the distances in the manual.

 

[Paul Howell]

Oh man! So many posts! Sorry. Yesterday I had a lot going on so couldn't keep up. Thanks all! Replies below!​

Yeah, I'm just really trying for fun and what not. I'd love to bring my Mamiya DSX1000 but its way too chunky. lol! ​

The mjuII is definitely in the top running for me. So many have suggested it now! Thanks!​

Do you think something with a 50mm at 10-20ft would be a better way to go? That is probably the best I can get for a fixed lens compact with 2.8 or better. The shots you showed are about the kind I am looking for. Obviously, the better I can make it work, the happier I'll be, but I'm not expecting the world on it. ​

I get so mixed up with the hyper-focal length stuff. So with a 35mm at f/4 using ISO800 film pushed a few stops, I get 12ft to 50ft in front of me in focus roughly? How would a 50mm lens come out? Is there a good reference for the hyper-focal length you can point me too? I decent calculator that is easy to understand?​

Thanks! Yeah, its preferable to be able to manually set ISO, but I also might use a label or scratch the DX Coding or something to make it work. ​

On the Pentax IQ zooms, the DX will set it to 800 and then there is an option to push the EV by 2 stops on the camera? Is that what you mean? ​

Hey, that isn't too shabby! Neat looking overview shot! Thanks for the sample! ​

 

[mynewcolour]

What's 'scenic' mode? The mountains/infinity?

If so... Yes.