Sad Fuji News/Happy Voigtländer News -GF670 in Japan only -Bessa III elsewhere!

[coriana6jp]

I listened to the video and the Fuji rep did indeed said 300,000 yen which at todays exchange rate is about 2950USD. Considering how most shops work here in Japan, I am pretty sure you can quickly knock 40 percent off the price when it hits the street. Another Japanese blog said the list was 180,000 yen. Which after discount would be about 1300 or so. Anyway, at this point there is no firm price listed. Also, one of the big Japanese photo magazines(Nippon Camera) had a full one page article on the camera(the magazine just hit the streets yesterday) no price listed but some very nice photos of the camera also said they were trying to get it out before the end of the year.

Gary

 

[Fintan]

Shame this lovely camera is so expensive, my interest has just evaporated

 

[JBrunner]

Shame this lovely camera is so expensive, my interest has just evaporated

I think the price speculation is just that, speculation. I think if they can keep the price somewhere near 1 large US that it will be a hit. I think if it gets near having a 2 at the beginning, it will be one of the latter footnotes in film camera production.

 

[jd callow]

Just my 2p of speculation.
As these things go they probably did some market research and came up with a price that would sell the number needed to make a profit. If the target market is doctors and lawyers 3k may have been right on the money. If their market were professionals it wouldn't be a fixed lens folder, but a competitor to the Mamiya 7. If their market was the hobbyist the camera would need to be competitive with or under the DSLR's at the upper end of the consumer market (D300, 40D). No one in this day and age commits to a product like this without first understanding their customer (what do they want what will they will pay) and their own manufacturing costs (can we build what they want at a price that will sell and produce a profit). The technology used in this camera is found on some pretty inexpensive equipment, but that equipment is sold in then 10's if not 100k volumes. I think a camera this simple can be made for 1-1.5k if the volume is there. I suspect that the camera is intended for a short run at a reasonably high price and will be marketed to those who buy for cachet. This would, in my scenario, make it a 2.5 to 3k camera with a short production run.

 

[JBrunner]

I think your scenario sucks, JD. I also think you have a pretty good chance of being right.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I suspect that the camera is intended for a short run at a reasonably high price and will be marketed to those who buy for cachet. This would, in my scenario, make it a 2.5 to 3k camera with a short production run.

one day (when I was in Tokyo) I got a call from a friend to say there was a specific duck that is rare to see in Japan on the 'lake' at Shinobazu. I went down (living just 2 min walk) to find some millions of dollars of long big white lenses on old guys EOS 1's (not to mention the F4's) just burning film on this little duck.

Tokyo struck me as a place where there are hundreds (nay, thousands) of retired "salary men" who have nothing better to do than spend thousands on "that camera they dreamt of" back when they were too busy to do anything (and didn't have the money either). Heck there's magazines dedicated to Pentax LX's and stuff like that!

so now that you mention it, I'm surprised its actually so cheap.

:`(

maybe eBay in 3 years?

 

[Steve Smith]

I think if they can keep the price somewhere near 1 large US that it will be a hit.

I hope you are correct (but doubt it). At $1000 or five hundred of our English pounds, I could think about buying one of these.



Steve.

 

[Hovig]

BESSA III PICTURES ON VOIGTLANDER WEBSITE

Hi everybody,

Did anybody notice the pictures of Bessa III on their website? On your left you'll see "NEW, For everyone who like analogue folding camera's". High quality large images with specs of the camera provided. No price yet.

http://www.voigtlander.com/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_home_e.html

Enjoy the images.

Hovig

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Hi everybody,

Did anybody notice the pictures of Bessa III on their website?

Yes, this was mentioned some time ago. Threads merged.

 

[haris]

People do buy 3000$ body / 2000$ lens Leicas, so there will be buyers for Fuji/Bessa for 3000$. Fact that we won't be able to buy it is our problem, not Fuji's.

Every selfrespecting manufacturer of anything wants or has one or few highclass items just for showing off, for showing of capabilities and class, limited editions, not aimed to mass market.

There is lots of expencive status symbol stuff and people who buys them so why this camera couldn't or shouldn't be one of them. Our desires are not important.

I certanly would like it and won't be able to buy it, but it is my problem.

 

[Andy K]

Fuji/Cosina are not Leica. I would not pay that much for a simple folding rangefinder camera.

 

[haris]

Neither will I. But maybe it isn't intented for you and me to buy it? Leica M7 or MP are not high end science too, but are expencive.

 

[Andy K]

Neither will I. But maybe it isn't intented for you and me to buy it? Leica M7 or MP are not high end science too, but are expencive.

Maybe so, but Leica has a tried and tested reputation for reliability in the field and consistent results (if you discount that piece of crap the M8). Fuji/Cosina on the other hand don't.

 

[Barry S]

I agree, there's a world of difference between a Leica and a Cosina-manufactured camera. Leica has a long and deserved reputation for quality and for better or worse--their cameras are considered status symbols. Cosina has no such reputation. I'm sure the new folder will be nice, but slapping the Voightlander Heliar name on the lens because you own the trademark doesn't make it exceptional. The Bessa III is aimed at camera geeks, not rich dentists and poseurs.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I agree- they would have made it a Zeiss Ikon if they were going to go after the prestige customers.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Maybe so, but Leica has a tried and tested reputation for reliability in the field and consistent results (if you discount that piece of crap the M8). Fuji/Cosina on the other hand don't.

really? I had thought after years of professional Japanese photographer field use of the GL / GW / GSW cameras that they had some reputation as being tough at least over there. I've even heard them called "texas Leica" but perhaps thats only a reference to size.

 

[jd callow]

The Bessa III is aimed at camera geeks, not rich dentists and poseurs.

If this is the case, and i hope it is, what would a camera geek pay? I think most camera geeks will max out at ~1500 -1800 with the bulk being under that.

 

[firecracker]

Hi



really? I had thought after years of professional Japanese photographer field use of the GL / GW / GSW cameras that they had some reputation as being tough at least over there. I've even heard them called "texas Leica" but perhaps thats only a reference to size.

Yes. the class photos in school year books were almost always shot with those cameras by the "local" professionals as far as I know.

 

[Matthew Gorringe]

Just my 2p of speculation.
As these things go they probably did some market research and came up with a price that would sell the number needed to make a profit. If the target market is doctors and lawyers 3k may have been right on the money. If their market were professionals it wouldn't be a fixed lens folder, but a competitor to the Mamiya 7. If their market was the hobbyist the camera would need to be competitive with or under the DSLR's at the upper end of the consumer market (D300, 40D). No one in this day and age commits to a product like this without first understanding their customer (what do they want what will they will pay) and their own manufacturing costs (can we build what they want at a price that will sell and produce a profit). The technology used in this camera is found on some pretty inexpensive equipment, but that equipment is sold in then 10's if not 100k volumes. I think a camera this simple can be made for 1-1.5k if the volume is there. I suspect that the camera is intended for a short run at a reasonably high price and will be marketed to those who buy for cachet. This would, in my scenario, make it a 2.5 to 3k camera with a short production run.

More idle speculation follows.

I think you might be right but there's one confounding factor: FujiFilm also make film. Could they be endeavouring to increase their film sales by the production of this camera? Would that be factored into the price?

While the increased film sales from buyers of this camera would likely not be a huge factor in itself, the positioning of FujiFilm as the brand committed to silver based photography might be behind the design of the camera in the first place and this dividend might be factored into the price.

I know this is pretty tentative but I don't think that the camera would have been produced at all, or licenced to Voigtlander, if it was destined for a very small production run. Do Voigtlander 35mm rangefinders sell for Leica prices? How would this product fit into their strategy at $3000 a pop?

If anyone's keeping a book on who's closest to the mark I'll say $US1500 street (not list) price when the Bessa is sold in the US.

From my observation most casual photographers (the doctors and lawyers you mention) wouldn't see this camera as a status symbol like a Leica and it doesn't have enough bells and whistles to push their "toy" buttons. I can't see this taking sales away from the high end digital SLRs with booster packs and flash guns and cool accesories and fast lenses and blah blah blah.

 

[haris]

I payed mine Bessa R2A 400 EUROS, 35mm PII 250 and 75mm 250. That is 900 EUROS for new 35mm RF 2 lenses set.

Having above in mind, I would be ready to pay up to 1000 EUROS for Bessa III. Not more. And even that would be object of serious thinking, agreed as Andy K described it "simple folding rangefinder" camera as it is, how expencive it should be...

 

[sanking]

My impression is that the Bessa III is aimed at photographers who need to travel light and still want a very high quality negative that will enlarge up to about 8-10X, or in the 20X24" range.

I think it will sell very well if priced at about $2k USD. I would personally pay that much for one, and know several others who will as well.

Sandy King

I agree, there's a world of difference between a Leica and a Cosina-manufactured camera. Leica has a long and deserved reputation for quality and for better or worse--their cameras are considered status symbols. Cosina has no such reputation. I'm sure the new folder will be nice, but slapping the Voightlander Heliar name on the lens because you own the trademark doesn't make it exceptional. The Bessa III is aimed at camera geeks, not rich dentists and poseurs.

 

[T Hoskinson]

If this is the case, and i hope it is, what would a camera geek pay? I think most camera geeks will max out at ~1500 -1800 with the bulk being under that.

This Geek would pay up to $2K for one and has been on Stephen Gandy's "I want one" list for some time.

This Geek also owns, shoots with and loves several pieces of Fuji's superb LF and MF glass. He also has several Fuji MF rangefinder cameras and has had zero problems with any of them.

 

[jd callow]

Tom,
I used the geek label affectionately. I'm a geek of many stripes and my last new camera cost 2k, my last new lens 1.2k. On the flip side most of us geeks will weigh the cost of new (say 2k for this camera) v. used (say 2k for a mamiya 7 w/ normal lens or 2k for mamiya 6 and 2 or 3 lenses). In this day and age new has a steep hill to climb if it isn't very unique, very good and or very cost competitive. In my mind at 2k the camera begins to lose against the used market.

I may be the wrong person to comment though as the camera doesn't work for me, 6x7 with a fixed normal focal length lens are both non starters. If it were 6x9 or 6x6 with a normal wide or wide lens I'd pay as much as 2k for the former and half that for the latter.

 

[Claire Senft]

What a crock...he is no geek! Wannab yes...geek no.

 

[T Hoskinson]

Tom,
I used the geek label affectionately. I'm a geek of many stripes and my last new camera cost 2k, my last new lens 1.2k. On the flip side most of us geeks will weigh the cost of new (say 2k for this camera) v. used (say 2k for a mamiya 7 w/ normal lens or 2k for mamiya 6 and 2 or 3 lenses). In this day and age new has a steep hill to climb if it isn't very unique, very good and or very cost competitive. In my mind at 2k the camera begins to lose against the used market.

I may be the wrong person to comment though as the camera doesn't work for me, 6x7 with a fixed normal focal length lens are both non starters. If it were 6x9 or 6x6 with a normal wide or wide lens I'd pay as much as 2k for the former and half that for the latter.

Yeah jd, but I'm a Geek with a not-fully-requited-Lust for MF folding cameras. Thick glasses, pocket protector, slide rule - the whole thing!