Sad Fuji News/Happy Voigtländer News -GF670 in Japan only -Bessa III elsewhere!

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 18, 2008

Thanks for posting the video. That helps.

The focus mechanism looks really smooth. Interesting that they have helical focusing on a bellows camera, but I guess that's not unheard of.

The camera looks a little bigger than I'd hoped for, but not too bad.

pellicle · Oct 18, 2008

david b said:
new video of the camera on my blog

ouhh ... N I C E ... answers many questions too.

Thanks for posting that link!

david b · Oct 18, 2008

It is looking better and better to me.

Now hopefully the price won't be too outrageous.

Mick Fagan · Oct 18, 2008

Certainly looks more like the GS645 I had all those years ago.

David, anything that takes 120 film and has a 67 image will be slightly wider than you imagine or remember, from old type folders.

I remember the time I first saw an XPan, couldn't believe how wide and bulky it was.

The GS645 was quite small, but it certainly didn't slide into a shirt pocket.

Mick.

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 18, 2008

It looks bigger than the 6x9 Bessa II that I had.

pellicle · Oct 19, 2008

Hi

Mick Fagan said:
... anything that takes 120 film and has a 67 image will be slightly wider than you imagine or remember, from old type folders.

I thought it looked a little bigger too, so upon reading this I thought I'd scan my bessa 1 (cos my RF has film in it now) so that it can be compared directly to the images from the website

the Bessa 1 and the RF are within 1 or so mm of each other in all dimensions (and even weigh similarly), so I'd expect the Bessa 2 would be similar.

pellicle · Oct 19, 2008

since its a rainy morning (and I had both images) I thought I'd do a quick layover

I scaled the images as best I could based on using the width of the film spool holders on both cameras for a common scale

so it looks a little wider and a little higher than my existing 6x9 bessa cameras. The extra spool there on the takeup side seems to be taking up space which the extra width of the film gate on the 6x9 (which on my example is 87mm).

I'm hoping it arrives soon too (I've already saved my pennies ;-)

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 19, 2008

Thanks for doing the overlay with the Bessa I. The Bessa II is slightly taller, so it should be even closer to the size of the Bessa III/667. The point being--one would hope that a 6x7 folder could be a little smaller than a 6x9 folder, but the 6x6/6x7 curtain mechanism probably prevents that, and there is a tradeoff for the new camera being--one hopes--more robust than the old folders.

If it doesn't fit in a coat pocket, then that defeats the purpose of a folder, in my opinion.

pellicle · Oct 19, 2008

Hi

David A. Goldfarb said:
Thanks for doing the overlay with the Bessa I. The Bessa II is slightly taller, so it should be even closer to the size of the Bessa III/667. The point being--one would hope that a 6x7 folder could be a little smaller than a 6x9 folder, but the 6x6/6x7 curtain mechanism probably prevents that, and there is a tradeoff for the new camera being--one hopes--more robust than the old folders.

If it doesn't fit in a coat pocket, then that defeats the purpose of a folder, in my opinion.

well I was curious myself, and it takes little effort to share it with others

personally I like the RF (6x9 folder) I have because (after using my 4x5 camera for a shot) its ludicrously simple to set up and take another shot. My RF fits easily into a side pocket of my pack meaning I don't even need to unpack anything to set up and take a picture when hiking.

So for me at least the attraction of the Bessa III is as a more reliable and hopefully optically / mechanically performing replacement to my RF.

Anyway it fits into the pocket of my army trench coat which is more than I can say for my 10D

Terence · Oct 19, 2008

In the immortal words of Police Chief Martin Brody, "You're gonna need bigger jacket pockets . . . "

On the plus side, the height increase looks like it's because of a larger rangefinder window. The original ones are too damn small to see anything through when you have glasses on.

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 19, 2008

I had no problem fitting a Bessa II into a couple of different jacket pockets, so I'll wear a jacket to PhotoPlus (it'll probably be cold anyway) and will report back.

sanking · Oct 19, 2008

Anyone know when the Bessa III will be available, and the price?

I am strongly inclined to buy it when available, though really wish it were 6X9 format.

Sandy King

David A. Goldfarb said:
I had no problem fitting a Bessa II into a couple of different jacket pockets, so I'll wear a jacket to PhotoPlus (it'll probably be cold anyway) and will report back.

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 19, 2008

Speculation from various sources is that it should come in around $1200 (though anything could happen in the currency markets in the next few months). Stephen Gandy is making a list of people interested, and he'll ask for deposits once he knows price and availability--

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64253

It's sound like it should be available in the spring sometime. I would presume that there will be other sources as well.

david b · Oct 20, 2008

I just posted a second video on my blog.

Apparently, the man in the suit says the camera is going to cost $3000.

Not good news.

johnnywalker · Oct 20, 2008

Ouch.

sanking · Oct 20, 2008

My GW690III is starting to look a lot more attractive, even though it does not fold.

I have thought from the beginning that the price of this camera would be well over $2000. It is probably more difficult to make a rigid folding camera than a fixed lens camera like the 670 and 690 Fujis, and all of those cameras cost around $1700 new, and don't even have a meter.

But maybe I will be pleasantly surprised by price. When all else fails hope still breaths.

Sandy King

david b said:
I just posted a second video on my blog.

Apparently, the man in the suit says the camera is going to cost $3000.

Not good news.

david b · Oct 20, 2008

The original price mentioned at another trade show was $1200.

I will wait this one out before I start getting a little panicked.

If a 35mm Voigtlander camera only costs $500 new, why would the 667 cost $3000 ?

Andy K · Oct 20, 2008

My thinking too David. My anniversary R3M with collapsible Heliar cost £600 new. I can't see this camera costing too much more than that. Maybe £750 to £800.

sanking · Oct 20, 2008

My question would be, how could the 667 cost less than any of the earlier Fuji rangefinder cameras? I think it will cost at least as much as the fixed lens 670 and 690 cameras, and probably more since it is a more complex camera with auto-exposure, whereas the old fixed lens 670 and 690 rangefinders lacked even a meter.

I personally anticipate a price of well over $2000 for the 667.

Sandy King

david b said:
The original price mentioned at another trade show was $1200.

I will wait this one out before I start getting a little panicked.

If a 35mm Voigtlander camera only costs $500 new, why would the 667 cost $3000 ?

Loris Medici · Oct 20, 2008

Dear Sandy, I perfectly understand this. But on the other hand, the MF market got pretty small. My observation is that people aren't buying that much MF cameras (they're selling instead) as it is used to be when they first launched the GS series, so, they have to make a compromise between sales numbers and profit margin. To me about 2 to 2.5 times the price of a Voigtlander R2A or R3A body is adequate -> more than this, the camera is out of my scope. (I'm talking about the Voigtlander version of the camera, the Bessa III, not Fuji version...)

About the presumed USD 1300 price; a R3A with 75/2.5 Color-Heliar (since the Bessa III comes with a fixed lens) costs USD 860, put 50% over this you end up with USD 1290. A coincidence?

Regards,
Loris.

sanking said:
My question would be, how could the 667 cost less than any of the earlier Fuji rangefinder cameras? I think it will cost at least as much as the fixed lens 670 and 690 cameras, and probably more since it is a more complex camera with auto-exposure, whereas the old fixed lens 670 and 690 rangefinders lacked even a meter.

I personally anticipate a price of well over $2000 for the 667.

Sandy King

poutnik · Oct 20, 2008

If the price would be bellow $1500, I'd start saving. If it's above $2000, my buying this wonderful camera is definitely out of question....

pellicle · Oct 20, 2008

Sandy

sanking said:
My question would be, how could the 667 cost less than any of the earlier Fuji rangefinder cameras? I think it will cost at least as much as the fixed lens 670 and 690 cameras,

...
I personally anticipate a price of well over $2000 for the 667.

sigh .. that would be too bad.

I suspect you're right, but I'd like to believe your pessimistic.

marketing normally charges what the market will bear (and it has little to do with production costs in many situations).

time will tell (and then there's ebay a year or two later

Loris Medici · Oct 20, 2008

pellicle said:
...marketing normally charges what the market will bear (and it has little to do with production costs in many situations)...

I agree. Additionally, I don't believe the production cost would be much higher than the cost for manufacturing a R3A + a 75/2.5 for instance, even taking into account R&D costs -> since they're building something on top of already existing designs & know-how... But Sandy has a point, a strong one -> I hope things won't shape up as he anticipates...

sanking · Oct 20, 2008

I really hope that I am being too pessimistic. At $1200 I would be down for two of the 667s.

Later! Got to take a plane to Canada this morning for Bob Carnie's
"Invasion" workshop.

Sandy

Loris Medici said:
I agree. Additionally, I don't believe the production cost would be much higher than the cost for manufacturing a R3A + a 75/2.5 for instance, even taking into account R&D costs -> since they're building something on top of already existing designs & know-how... But Sandy has a point, a strong one -> I hope things won't shape up as he anticipates...

Kobin · Oct 20, 2008

I think $2000 would price it too close to the Mamiya 7ii. If I had 2k to spend for a mf camera, I'd chose a rigid opitcal bench and interchangability of lenses and kick in a little more money for them.

K

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