Rolleiflex Hy6...One of the last medium format cameras in production

Sal Santamaura · Jul 14, 2023

It's been nearly three years since this thread began. Early on, it intrigued me, despite what I considered very high prices. When those who answered posted questions confirmed that no reverse-curl bulge manifested in the film, my interest grew. Then, following the saga of how those who'd shelled out for this system needed to struggle with getting things functioning, I backed off. Seven decades of life inculcated me with trepidation about becoming involved. I'm glad to have passed on the whole mess, and send condolences to those suffering with it now.

grain elevator · Jul 14, 2023

Pieter12 said:
Could be a language or cultural issue, I don't know.

His English seems just fine. And it's not a cultural issue as in German vs. American culture. As a German, while there might not be quite the same "(pretend to be willing to) bend over backwards for the customer"-expectation here as in the US (although I've received some of the worst customer service in the US), what I read here is far from acceptable.

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

Sal Santamaura said:
It's been nearly three years since this thread began. Early on, it intrigued me, despite what I considered very high prices. When those who answered posted questions confirmed that no reverse-curl bulge manifested in the film, my interest grew. Then, following the saga of how those who'd shelled out for this system needed to struggle with getting things functioning, I backed off. Seven decades of life inculcated me with trepidation about becoming involved. I'm glad to have passed on the whole mess, and send condolences to those suffering with it now.

Thanks, it is quite annoying. At this point I’m wondering if full frame insurance will take pity on my and accept a claim from this fiasco.

grain elevator said:
His English seems just fine. And it's not a cultural issue as in German vs. American culture. As a German, while there might not be quite the same "(pretend to be willing to) bend over backwards for the customer"-expectation here as in the US (although I've received some of the worst customer service in the US), what I read here is far from acceptable.

It’s really shocking to be honest. No attempts to even try to work with me, then gaslighting me about how I could already have it back by now. Which would be quite the feat with customs on both sides, and the track record of past repair times.

Unless something drastic changes, I’ll probably try to get some of my money back through full frame, sell the camera and my extensive set if rollei gear otherwise, stop my phase one back adaption, then write a blog post or something to help warn others. Maybe reach out to the Washington AG, though I expect they can do nothing.

Klaus_H · Jul 14, 2023

Pieter12 said:
I sent in a lens that I assumed was still under warranty since I had the card and receipt, but the factory said the lens was old stock--it had been made by DHW Fototechnik and not the current DW Photo--and wouldn't honor the warranty. Ha!

unbelievable: two different companies, but the same people ...

Steven Lee · Jul 14, 2023

Every time I get a GAS attack I see my right hand reaching out for the credit card to place an order for the Hy6, I strategically use my left hand to quickly dig up this thread, and the urge goes away.

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

Klaus_H said:
unbelievable: two different companies, but the same people ...

I asked ChatGPT4 (yeah I know, not accurate/dependable) to get an idea, it says typically, if it is bought out then no, but if it restructured then yes, but not always. There should be a public insolvency document for us to look at somewhere though...

I feel like the same people creating a company to buy out their own defunct company seems like a loophole that probably does not exist, but again, not a lawyer, let alone a German one.

Steven Lee said:
Every time I get a GAS attack I see my right hand reaching out for the credit card to place an order for the Hy6, I strategically use my left hand to quickly dig up this thread, and the urge goes away.

Thus surprised that Rolf is laughing at this thread. It's pretty high up on my Google Search results at least...

Steven Lee · Jul 14, 2023

buildbot said:
Thus surprised that Rolf is laughing at this thread. It's pretty high up on my Google Search results at least...

Ironically, I am almost sure that's how I re-discovered thath APUG is now photrio. This thread showed up on Google couple of years ago, it is literally the first non-store page that shows up if you google the name of the camera.

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

Steven Lee said:
Ironically, I am almost sure that's how I re-discovered thath APUG is now photrio. This thread showed up on Google couple of years ago, it is literally the first non-store page that shows up if you google the name of the camera.

I guess they must still have some people who drop 10k Euro for a Hy6…maybe…

I wonder if they really intend these to be used. When I first bought my current body and had it upgraded, Hans asked me kind of a weird question after asking if it was my first camera of the system: “Are you dealing with cameras, or are you collector or pro”

Which I thought was odd. Amateur looking to burn some money was/is probably the best description hahahaha.

Altogether, If anyone is curious, I paid nearly 4K USD for the upgrade and film back, in March of 2021.

Pieter12 · Jul 14, 2023

buildbot said:
I guess they must still have some people who drop 10k Euro for a Hy6…maybe…

I wonder if they really intend these to be used. When I first bought my current body and had it upgraded, Hans asked me kind of a weird question after asking if it was my first camera of the system: “Are you dealing with cameras, or are you collector or pro”

Which I thought was odd. Amateur looking to burn some money was/is probably the best description hahahaha.

Altogether, If anyone is curious, I paid nearly 4K USD for the upgrade and film back, in March of 2021.

I'm not even sure you could buy a new Hy6. I don't think the factory is turning out many, if any at all. Plus if there were any digital backs for it, that would be an extra 10 or 20 grand. But right now, there are no new digital backs available for the Hy6 and the film backs are as rare as hen's teeth. Although I did hear they were working on adapting the Phase One IQ backs. At the pace they seem to be working today, let's hope the backs won't be obsolete and unavailable by the time they are ready. And don't forget to add whatever exorbitant price that may be.

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

Pieter12 said:
I'm not even sure you could buy a new Hy6. I don't think the factory is turning out many, if any at all. Plus if there were any digital backs for it, that would be an extra 10 or 20 grand. But right now, there are no new digital backs available for the Hy6 and the film backs are as rare as hen's teeth. Although I did hear they were working on adapting the Phase One IQ backs. At the pace they seem to be working today, let's hope the backs won't be obsolete and unavailable by the time they are ready. And don't forget to add whatever exorbitant price that may be.

Are they really? Maybe that is why they dislike me, I was working on that myself: https://blog.maxg.io/to-come/
(not very far along...)

I know also that someone in China modified a back to work with the Hy6 as well, though I have lost the link since.

MattKing · Jul 14, 2023

buildbot said:
I feel like the same people creating a company to buy out their own defunct company seems like a loophole that probably does not exist, but again, not a lawyer, let alone a German one.

Harman Technology was set up by a number of ex-employees of Ilford Imaging. That entity bought up assets from the bankrupt Ilford Imaging, including a license to use the name "Ilford" - thus we still have Ilford branded film.
Are you sure that the ownership is the same as with the defunct company? It could be that the people at the new company were employees at the old company who lost their employment and then were hired by the new owners of the new company.

Pieter12 · Jul 14, 2023

From Wikipedia:
"In early 2009, Franke & Heidecke GmbH, Feinmechanik und Optik declared itself insolvent.[4][5] Since 2009 Rolleiflex medium format cameras, Rollei 35 and Rolleivision slide projectors were being produced by the DHW Fototechnik GmbH[6][7]—a company founded by Rolf Daus, Hans Hartje and Frank Will, former Franke & Heidecke employees.[8] DHW Fototechnik presented two new Rolleiflex cameras and a new electronic shutter at photokina 2012.[9] DHW itself filed for insolvency on 2014–08–15[10] and was dissolved in April 2015,[11][12] thereby temporarily ending any further production of cameras, lenses and accessories. A new, smaller company called DW Photo [13] was formed with reduced staffing, and more or less the same people leading the business..."

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

Pieter12 said:
new electronic shutter

Allegedly, Phase One bought the rights to that according to Eric: https://rolleiflex.us/products/hs-1...d-shutter-copal-0?_pos=1&_sid=cd1501a6a&_ss=r

Leading to the X-shutter.

On topic, still no word from DW after my last email. I reached out to https://paepke-fototechnik.de/service , hopefully they respond / can work with me & my sad Hy6.

MattKing said:
Are you sure that the ownership is the same as with the defunct company?

Not sure, but according to Pieter12's wikipedia article, it seems like the same people.

MattKing · Jul 14, 2023

buildbot said:
Not sure, but according to Pieter12's wikipedia article, it seems like the same people.

Depends entirely on what is meant by "leading the business".
That says nothing about ownership.

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

MattKing said:
Depends entirely on what is meant by "leading the business".
That says nothing about ownership.

Lucky for us, that info is public in Germany
(Redo with birthdates also redacted as well as address, but I stress this was found in about 30 seconds of google searching)

MattKing · Jul 14, 2023

But who holds the financing?

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

MattKing said:
But who holds the financing?

This is the financing document? It’s a list of shareholders.

MattKing · Jul 14, 2023

No - the lenders!
They will be the ones who essentially call the shots, and reap most of the benefits, unless and until the debt has been paid down substantially.
Businesses bought out of insolvency are almost invariably highly leveraged.

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

MattKing said:
No - the lenders!
They will be the ones who essentially call the shots, and reap most of the benefits, unless and until the debt has been paid down substantially.
Businesses bought out of insolvency are almost invariably highly leveraged.

Ah I see! I did not understand - yeah, not sure, that information could also be public though. Will check it out.

Steven Lee · Jul 14, 2023

MattKing said:
No - the lenders!
They will be the ones who essentially call the shots, and reap most of the benefits, unless and until the debt has been paid down substantially.
Businesses bought out of insolvency are almost invariably highly leveraged.

You're confusing ownership with management.

Pieter12 · Jul 15, 2023

I had heard that Leica Store Lisse was somehow involved. I’m sure there are others. But I doubt any of the backers are calling for the poor customer service witnessed here. DW seems short-staffed with little inventory and running on a shoestring. It’s a tough market.

buildbot · Jul 15, 2023

Pieter12 said:
I had heard that Leica Store Lisse was somehow involved. I’m sure there are others. But I doubt any of the backers are calling for the poor customer service witnessed here. DW seems short-staffed with little inventory and running on a shoestring. It’s a tough market.

Interesting!
Maybe someone should tell them ... hmm

I mean, is it a tough market though? They operate at such a high price new they are nearing in Phase One territory. Phase has apparently have already sold at least one of their new XC cameras, at 62K USD. I feel like at that price level, you are going for a few cameras a year to people with $$$$, aka people who don't have to work at all for a living, ever. Or maybe really well heeled wedding photographers. But can you imagine being a wedding photographer and needing what, 3+ Hy6 Bodies to cover having 2 at any time in the shop for half the year?

The thing is, people do like using them, so support is critical. Nobody wants a 10-11K paperweight! Phase One support has been nothing but incredibly awesome every time I work with them. DW Photo has been okay up to this point, before this disaster. I wonder if Rolf had some kind of negative life event that is spilling over or something, the responses seem so out of kilter.

MattKing · Jul 15, 2023

Steven Lee said:
You're confusing ownership with management.

In reality, in much of the business world, the lenders are the ones with effective control.
Any business plan that might have been presented to them by the owners of the new entity would almost certainly deal with whether or not the warranties offered by the former defunct entity would be honoured by the new entity - something that would be unlikely in the extreme.

pentaxuser · Jul 15, 2023

Steven Lee said:
Every time I get a GAS attack I see my right hand reaching out for the credit card to place an order for the Hy6, I strategically use my left hand to quickly dig up this thread, and the urge goes away.

I have only skimmed through the now 27 pages but I admit I was struck by the comparison with it and the saying "Marry in haste and repent at leisure. "

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass · Jul 15, 2023

Steven Lee said:
Every time I get a GAS attack I see my right hand reaching out for the credit card to place an order for the Hy6, I strategically use my left hand to quickly dig up this thread, and the urge goes away.

I have my credit card, date and code memorized so that does not slow me down. I just charge ahead.

Rolleiflex Hy6...One of the last medium format cameras in production

Sal Santamaura

grain elevator

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Klaus_H

Steven Lee

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Pieter12

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MattKing

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Steven Lee

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Sirius Glass

Rolleiflex Hy6...One of the last medium format cameras in production

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