Rolleiflex Hy6...One of the last medium format cameras in production

buildbot · Jul 12, 2023

I just received this dismissive reply from them:

"
of course, you can send it to DW Photo. We will see what´s wrong. As I wrote before, as we shipped it back, we testeg it with a 6060 and a digital back and it worked.

And the thread you mentioned makes me laugh. Tht´s all...

best regards

Rolf
"
I suppose I am out of luck with an extremely expensive broken camera.

Pieter12 · Jul 12, 2023

buildbot said:
I just received this dismissive reply from them:

"
of course, you can send it to DW Photo. We will see what´s wrong. As I wrote before, as we shipped it back, we testeg it with a 6060 and a digital back and it worked.

And the thread you mentioned makes me laugh. Tht´s all...

best regards

Rolf
"
I suppose I am out of luck with an extremely expensive broken camera.

Wonder why or what part of this thread makes him laugh?

buildbot · Jul 12, 2023

Pieter12 said:
Wonder why or what part of this thread makes him laugh?

No idea. But it certainly helps provide an explanation for their multiple bankruptcies, they probably alienated half of their customers.

Sirius Glass · Jul 12, 2023

When I wanted to trade in my Mamiya C330 f with three lenses and every accessory in the known world, I wanted to get a Rollei SLR or a Hasselblad, in that order. Samy's told me about the problems and supply issues for Rollei and so I traded for the Hasselblad. I am glad I had good guidance and listened.

buildbot · Jul 13, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
When I wanted to trade in my Mamiya C330 f with three lenses and every accessory in the known world, I wanted to get a Rollei SLR or a Hasselblad, in that order. Samy's told me about the problems and supply issues for Rollei and so I traded for the Hasselblad. I am glad I had good guidance and listened.

Pretty tempted to get a 500 series now, if I can manage to offload the hy6 for a reasonable amount. Though I have a Bronica SQ already, I’m curious to experience the reputed quality of Hasselblad.

I was also in the process of making an adapter for Phase One digital backs in the hy6, guess that’ll be over now too. Would have probably gotten them a few customers maybe even.

Sirius Glass · Jul 13, 2023

buildbot said:
Pretty tempted to get a 500 series now, if I can manage to offload the hy6 for a reasonable amount. Though I have a Bronica SQ already, I’m curious to experience the reputed quality of Hasselblad.

I was also in the process of making an adapter for Phase One digital backs in the hy6, guess that’ll be over now too. Would have probably gotten them a few customers maybe even.

Hasselblad still has service, parts, lenses [used], and bodies [used] available. I see you are in space so I do not know where the closest service is.

buildbot · Jul 13, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Hasselblad still has service, parts, lenses [used], and bodies [used] available. I see you are in space so I do not know where the closest service is.

Yeah I figured that. In the USA, so lots of options for repair.

Anyone want an apparently (not really) working Hy6 Mod 2/1 ? Maybe you will have better luck than me working the factory. Works with Sinar backs unlike normal mod 2s. If it has a connection to it.

Pieter12 · Jul 13, 2023

buildbot said:
Yeah I figured that. In the USA, so lots of options for repair.

Anyone want an apparently (not really) working Hy6 Mod 2/1 ? Maybe you will have better luck than me working the factory. Works with Sinar backs unlike normal mod 2s. If it has a connection to it.

I don't know why I am such a glutton for punishment. I already have 2 bodies, one that was upgraded to Mod 2 and the other an early Leaf body that the factory said they could upgrade, then when I sent it to them they said it couldn't be upgraded. Let me know if you get desperate enough to sell it real cheap.

Pieter12 · Jul 13, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
When I wanted to trade in my Mamiya C330 f with three lenses and every accessory in the known world, I wanted to get a Rollei SLR or a Hasselblad, in that order. Samy's told me about the problems and supply issues for Rollei and so I traded for the Hasselblad. I am glad I had good guidance and listened.

Rollei's handshake deal with Hasselblad not to make an MF SLR turned out to be a big mistake. At the time TLRs were very popular and probably outsold MF SLRs. But by the time Rollei got onboard with the SL66, Hasselblad was by far the world-wide market leader. Rollei's offerings have always been more sophisticated but also more expensive and they never gained a decent foothold in the pro market. That hurt the whole Rollei supply chain: dealers, service and production. And subsequent bankruptcies couldn't have helped, either. And now Hasselblad has an angel with DJI to supply capital. Although Hasselblad has turned out some real doozies all by themselves along the way, too.

S

buildbot · Jul 13, 2023

Pieter12 said:
I don't know why I am such a glutton for punishment. I already have 2 bodies, one that was upgraded to Mod 2 and the other an early Leaf body that the factory said they could upgrade, then when I sent it to them they said it couldn't be upgraded. Let me know if you get desperate enough to sell it real cheap.

We'll see if I can get a response from DW, Key Camera, or the new repair option Paepke-Fototechnik . Or maybe I'll try it myself, I have repaired many digital backs and Mamiya AF cameras, and the Hy6 is comparatively similar in difficulty I think. I have non-working AFi body for spares...

Pieter12 said:
Rollei's handshake deal with Hasselblad not to make an MF SLR turned out to be a big mistake. At the time TLRs were very popular and probably outsold MF SLRs. But by the time Rollei got onboard with the SL66, Hasselblad was by far the world-wide market leader. Rollei's offerings have always been more sophisticated but also more expensive and they never gained a decent foothold in the pro market. That hurt the whole Rollei supply chain: dealers, service and production. And subsequent bankruptcies couldn't have helped, either. And now Hasselblad has an angel with DJI to supply capital. Although Hasselblad has turned out some real doozies all by themselves along the way, too.

View attachment 343705 View attachment 343706
S

Plus, laughing at their customer's issues probably does not help. Honestly it feels nearly fraudulent how they treat their customers at this point.

I'll happily change my opinion and advocate for them if they apologize and actually try to fix the issue, otherwise I'll make it a minor mission to make sure all future customers are aware of how DW treats them.

Pieter12 · Jul 13, 2023

buildbot said:
Paepke-Fototechnik

I have been told that they do not (or will not?) work on the Hy6.

buildbot said:
We'll see if I can get a response from DW, Key Camera, or the new repair option Paepke-Fototechnik . Or maybe I'll try it myself, I have repaired many digital backs and Mamiya AF cameras, and the Hy6 is comparatively similar in difficulty I think. I have non-working AFi body for spares...

Plus, laughing at their customer's issues probably does not help. Honestly it feels nearly fraudulent how they treat their customers at this point.

I'll happily change my opinion and advocate for them if they apologize and actually try to fix the issue, otherwise I'll make it a minor mission to make sure all future customers are aware of how DW treats them.

You might want to talk to Eric at Rolleiflex USA.

buildbot · Jul 13, 2023

Pieter12 said:
I have been told that they do not (or will not?) work on the Hy6.

You might want to talk to Eric at Rolleiflex USA.

His site list that they do, will contact them and see.

I asked him before when I needed a repair on my 6060, and he told me to talk directly to the factory as that is where I purchased it from. I'll try reaching out to him too.

buildbot · Jul 13, 2023

Also, another part that makes this really lame is that my 2 year warranty for the camera expired while they had it...So if I send it back, now I will have to pay for a repair I should not have!

Pieter12 · Jul 13, 2023

buildbot said:
Also, another part that makes this really lame is that my 2 year warranty for the camera expired while they had it...So if I send it back, now I will have to pay for a repair I should not have!

I sent in a lens that I assumed was still under warranty since I had the card and receipt, but the factory said the lens was old stock--it had been made by DHW Fototechnik and not the current DW Photo--and wouldn't honor the warranty. Ha!

buildbot · Jul 13, 2023

Pieter12 said:
I sent in a lens that I assumed was still under warranty since I had the card and receipt, but the factory said the lens was old stock--it had been made by DHW Fototechnik and not the current DW Photo--and wouldn't honor the warranty. Ha!

Wow. I have no words. I guess it might be technically _legal_ since they are separate companies, but also maybe not (not a lawyer let alone a German one). But that is really unethical and speaks volumes to the character of the company. Doesn’t germany have pretty strong consumer protection laws?

Meanwhile, I bought a broken phase one IXU-50 off ebay and sent it to them to check out - in theory a 500 dollar charge, but they waved it as it was not repairable and sent it back no cost to me. 5 year warranty on a lot of their gear too.

Is there way to contact German authorities to check out what is going on over there? I wonder if they really have ability to do any repairs at all anymore and are just lying to their customers.

Pieter12 · Jul 13, 2023

buildbot said:
Wow. I have no words. I guess it might be technically _legal_ since they are separate companies, but also maybe not (not a lawyer let alone a German one). But that is really unethical and speaks volumes to the character of the company. Doesn’t germany have pretty strong consumer protection laws?

Meanwhile, I bought a broken phase one IXU-50 off ebay and sent it to them to check out - in theory a 500 dollar charge, but they waved it as it was not repairable and sent it back no cost to me. 5 year warranty on a lot of their gear too.

Is there way to contact German authorities to check out what is going on over there? I wonder if they really have ability to do any repairs at all anymore and are just lying to their customers.

The equipment I sent late last year was all repaired to a certain extent, although it took a while and some whining on Rolf’s part. However, two of the items repaired were not up to snuff for what you would expect from the factory. One was a film insert that was returned missing a retaining clip (that was there when it was sent in) and so the nylon gear and tension spring came off during shipping. The other was a first-generation 6060 film back that Rolf did not seem very familiar with. When I opened the box, I heard something rattling and thought, “this can’t be good.” It turned out to be a roller that had come loose and fell out of place. I wasn’t going to send those back to Germany again, but Rolf did send me the parts and Dave at Key Camera fixed them for me.

MattKing · Jul 13, 2023

At least over here, if a manufacturer offers a warranty, and then goes out of business, no other entity is obligated to honour the other entity's warranty.
Sometimes when one entity buys a business from a manufacturer or a receiver or bankruptcy trustee, it is a term of the deal that the new owner assume the liability under the old entity's warranties. If they do that, generally the price paid to the manufacturer or receiver or trustee is lower.
If you bought from a retailer, and that retailer held out the warranty as being in effect when it wasn't, than your remedy is a claim for damages against the retailer, not a claim against the new owner of the business.
The laws in effect in the jurisdictions involved - both the place of manufacture and the place of purchase - can have an affect on all these issues. And there are some fascinatingly arcane questions regarding which set(s) of laws applies - issues of jurisdiction and conflicts of laws make legal nerds feel warm all over
One could research the law in Germany. I'm not sure where I would look for the law in space, or in Magrathean's computer

Pieter12 · Jul 13, 2023

MattKing said:
At least over here, if a manufacturer offers a warranty, and then goes out of business, no other entity is obligated to honour the other entity's warranty.
Sometimes when one entity buys a business from a manufacturer or a receiver or bankruptcy trustee, it is a term of the deal that the new owner assume the liability under the old entity's warranties. If they do that, generally the price paid to the manufacturer or receiver or trustee is lower.
If you bought from a retailer, and that retailer held out the warranty as being in effect when it wasn't, than your remedy is a claim for damages against the retailer, not a claim against the new owner of the business.
The laws in effect in the jurisdictions involved - both the place of manufacture and the place of purchase - can have an affect on all these issues. And there are some fascinatingly arcane questions regarding which set(s) of laws applies - issues of jurisdiction and conflicts of laws make legal nerds feel warm all over
One could research the law in Germany. I'm not sure where I would look for the law in space, or in Magrathean's computer

Well, there was a bit of fishy business going on since DHW Fototechnik went bankrupt, they re-emerged as DW Photo, making the same stuff with the same parts in a slightly different location. I don't know the German bankruptcy laws, but it seems like they were walking away from debt and as a bonus, from warranty obligations. Not complaining, I did pay too have the lens fixed, but I would not have shipped it all the way to Germany and back when it could have been done in Colorado. I had sent a copy of the warranty card and the invoice beforehand, and wasn't given any warning the work would not be covered. Similarly, I had sent the serial number and firmware version to DW Photo inquiring if the Leaf body could be upgraded to Mod 2. The response was, yes. However when the body arrived in Brauschweig, the answer was no, too old. Admittedly, I let 9 months lapse between the inquiry and actually sending off the body (partly because I wasn't sure if Dave at Key Camera was going to be able to repair the film back for that body) but nothing had changed, so why all of a sudden was the upgrade not possible? Once again, other repairs were needed and made, but I had been hoping for a full upgrade and disappointed by the attitude and poor communication from the factory. Could be a language or cultural issue, I don't know.

And Magrathean's computer is Earth, from Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

MattKing · Jul 13, 2023

Pieter12 said:
And Magrathean's computer is Earth, from Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Which is fun, but doesn't give many hints about where on Earth you might be found

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

Pieter12 said:
The equipment I sent late last year was all repaired to a certain extent, although it took a while and some whining on Rolf’s part. However, two of the items repaired were not up to snuff for what you would expect from the factory. One was a film insert that was returned missing a retaining clip (that was there when it was sent in) and so the nylon gear and tension spring came off during shipping. The other was a first-generation 6060 film back that Rolf did not seem very familiar with. When I opened the box, I heard something rattling and thought, “this can’t be good.” It turned out to be a roller that had come loose and fell out of place. I wasn’t going to send those back to Germany again, but Rolf did send me the parts and Dave at Key Camera fixed them for me.

I had a similar experience with them as well with my 6060 back, which was apparently a demo but had super tight rollers that caused the film to jam half the time. I sent it back to them, it took months, it was still somewhat hard to advance the rollers but somewhat better. They were very polite and offered to fix it for free even if it was out of warranty (it was not but the offer was nice) back then.

Pieter12 said:
Well, there was a bit of fishy business going on since DHW Fototechnik went bankrupt, they re-emerged as DW Photo, making the same stuff with the same parts in a slightly different location. I don't know the German bankruptcy laws, but it seems like they were walking away from debt and as a bonus, from warranty obligations. Not complaining, I did pay too have the lens fixed, but I would not have shipped it all the way to Germany and back when it could have been done in Colorado. I had sent a copy of the warranty card and the invoice beforehand, and wasn't given any warning the work would not be covered. Similarly, I had sent the serial number and firmware version to DW Photo inquiring if the Leaf body could be upgraded to Mod 2. The response was, yes. However when the body arrived in Brauschweig, the answer was no, too old. Admittedly, I let 9 months lapse between the inquiry and actually sending off the body (partly because I wasn't sure if Dave at Key Camera was going to be able to repair the film back for that body) but nothing had changed, so why all of a sudden was the upgrade not possible? Once again, other repairs were needed and made, but I had been hoping for a full upgrade and disappointed by the attitude and poor communication from the factory. Could be a language or cultural issue, I don't know.

And Magrathean's computer is Earth, from Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Yikes - glad that did not happen when I had an AFI upgraded - I bought if from eBay and had them directly send it to the factory vs. me as they where originally in communication with DW back then. That must have been very disappointing!

On the cultural issue, I worked for Mercedes R&D for ~1 year, with many Germans. If anything, my experience with the factory is the exact opposite of many of the people I worked with, who were typically direct and in return, accepting of direct feedback or criticism that was merited.

MattKing said:
Which is fun, but doesn't give many hints about where on Earth you might be found

I believe that is the point (is that okay on this forum? I mean, you can figure out who I am/where I live if you try, but typically I don't put my physical location in my public internet profiles).

In other news, I heard back from Eric, he was helpful but I still had no luck with either my film or digital backs. He also gave some suggestions on talking to the factory that were helpful, but also very... enlightening about how the factory conducts its "business".

MattKing · Jul 14, 2023

buildbot said:
I believe that is the point (is that okay on this forum? I mean, you can figure out who I am/where I live if you try, but typically I don't put my physical location in my public internet profiles).

It isn't against the rules, but there are a myriad of issues that arise in our discussions that make it very advisable to do so.
In this particular thread, discussions about the enforceability of warranties or repair resources are examples.
The classic example are questions about sourcing items or services, where your location is critically important to the issue.
In particular, if you are a subscriber and list anything for sale - shipping costs and complexities are important to potential buyers.
It doesn't have to be particularly specific - something like country and province/state is frequently sufficient.

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

MattKing said:
It isn't against the rules, but there are a myriad of issues that arise in our discussions that make it very advisable to do so.
In this particular thread, discussions about the enforceability of warranties or repair resources are examples.
The classic example are questions about sourcing items or services, where your location is critically important to the issue.
In particular, if you are a subscriber and list anything for sale - shipping costs and complexities are important to potential buyers.
It doesn't have to be particularly specific - something like country and province/state is frequently sufficient.

Updated

MattKing · Jul 14, 2023

buildbot said:
Updated

Thanks.
Dare I ask which Washington ?
(I live 13 blocks away from a crossing into one of them)

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

MattKing said:
Thanks.
Dare I ask which Washington ?
(I live 13 blocks away from a crossing into one of them)

The one you are close to! Otherwise I'd put Washington DC

I actually went to UBC for 2 years for my MASc, I've driven through Delta BC many many times! I had a different Leaf AFI + Credo 60 at the time, which I sold - sadly in the case of the Credo 60! Should have kept that, though no sensor plus was limiting. I've been messing with Hy6s/Leaf AFIs since 2013.

Random fun fact - the Sinar M uses exactly the same top info display and similar firmware to the Hy6!

I wish Sinar/Leica would service a Hy6!

buildbot · Jul 14, 2023

Just got this from them:
(Including my response, for posterity and to show I am trying to work with them…)

Rolleiflex Hy6...One of the last medium format cameras in production

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Pieter12

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Sirius Glass

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Sirius Glass

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Pieter12

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MattKing

Moderator

Pieter12

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MattKing

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MattKing

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Rolleiflex Hy6...One of the last medium format cameras in production

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