Rolleicord V focusing screen

[Rolleiflexible]

One of the most enduring Internet falsehoods. Not nodal point. Entrance pupil. The entrance pupil is where the diaphragm aperture appears to be (virtual image) when looking into the lens from the outside (B/T shutter setting).
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramic_photography


Probably the origin of the "nodal point" myth is that, for a panoramic camera with rotating lens (Horizon, Noblex, Widelux), the lens must rotate about its rear nodal point. And the cause of its persistence is the naming of the Nodal Ninja gizmo.
From the same Wikipedia article:

Since you’ve referenced stitching software, it’s worth mentioning that the Rollei panorama head predates computers by decades and does not rely on Photoshop manipulation to achieve its results. In the gravure scan above, I cropped each of the frames slightly to align them with each other. No stitching software was used or required. Here’s a four-panel panorama shot on the head:

 

[baachitraka]

He’s me! It’s a mirror selfie. The camera is a Rolleicord II with a Triotar lens from the late 1940s.

Triotars are gems for portraits.

Mine swirl at wide open.

Though they lack the contrast compared to Xenar's but theirs character will outplay all it's minor deficiencies when chosen a good subject and suitable lighting conditions.

 

[bernard_L]

Since you’ve referenced stitching software, it’s worth mentioning that the Rollei panorama head predates computers by decades and does not rely on Photoshop manipulation to achieve its results. In the gravure scan above, I cropped each of the frames slightly to align them with each other. No stitching software was used or required. Here’s a four-panel panorama shot on the head:

Understood, and well done (both you and Messrs Franke & Heidecke). This kind of panorama (quadriptych??) stands on its own.
This said, two distinct issues can be more or less apparent.

• If you had photographed a building more or less frontally, the horizontal lines would be broken. This is addressed by the stitching software via some geometric transformations that achieve precisely what would have been obtained with a very wide angle lens (or with a swing lens pano camera, as you choose) and also allows you to re-define the orientation of the film plane. The stitching software also uses some overlap between adjacent pics to align them.
• If the camera rotation does not occur about the entrance pupil, the apparent position of a foreground object relative to the distant background changes with camera rotation; especially troublesome if happening in the overlap area mentioned above. No overlap in a well executed quadriptych, of course.

But I guess that the intent and use of the Rollei panoramic head was more landscape panoramas like the one you show. For that it is appears to be quite effective.

 

[MattKing]

One of the most enduring Internet falsehoods. Not nodal point. Entrance pupil. The entrance pupil is where the diaphragm aperture appears to be (virtual image) when looking into the lens from the outside (B/T shutter setting).
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramic_photography

Interesting - as I certainly have seen information that equates the two. Thanks for pointing out the misunderstanding.
As I understand it, if you mistakenly use the front nodal point, you are going to be close to correct .

 

[Yaeli]

Hi all,

So, at least I know the beast works.




I don't know where all the artifacts come from, but it might have been from the film. It was a roll of Rollei Retro 400 S that I had bought a few years ago when I got my Holga, and never used, and didn't store properly (room temperature in the south of France can get quite high...). In any case, I know it works. The one that I shot with the "sports finder" worked pretty well too. Now I know what you meant by the "belly button view", @BrianShaw I'll be more careful !
I just received the new screen. Gonna try to install it this weekend.

 

[JPD]

I don't know where all the artifacts come from, but it might have been from the film. It was a roll of Rollei Retro 400 S that I had bought a few years ago when I got my Holga, and never used, and didn't store properly (room temperature in the south of France can get quite high...). In any case, I know it works. The one that I shot with the "sports finder" worked pretty well too. Now I know what you meant by the "belly button view", @BrianShaw I'll be more careful !
I just received the new screen. Gonna try to install it this weekend.

Very good. Yes, it's the film that has reacted with the backing paper. Could have been caused by humidity and high temperature. At least you could see that the camera works and that the focus is spot on.

 

[Yaeli]

Yes, it's the film that has reacted with the backing paper. Could have been caused by humidity and high temperature. At least you could see that the camera works and that the focus is spot on.

Thank you so much for the explanation !! I had no idea this could happen, but then again, this is only my 2nd roll of 120 ever, so I have a LOT to learn.
But yes, I'm happy with the 1st results. I actually thought I would have missed the framing and focus a lot more, considering how dark the viewfinder was, and how unsure I was of the focus. But 10 out of 12 are sharp, and there's only 1 where I think I missed the framing I wanted (I cut the top of the image). I'm pleasantly surprised by how sharp the lens is, even wide open. I can't wait to try again with the new screen I haven't had that much fun with a camera in a long while !

 

[runswithsizzers]

There is a right way to hold a Rollei. It wants to rest on the palm of your hand. The weight and form give it inherent stability — let it sit on your palm, and use your index finger of that hand to trip the shutter. Use the other hand to focus and steady the camera. If you can relax and use a gentle touch, you can handhold long exposures fairly easily.

I have never seen, much less held a Rollei TLR. But I just did buy a Rolleicord V which I should have in a few days.

In the Owners Manual for the V, Rollei suggests holding the camera as you show, and using the tip of the left index finger to cock and release the shutter.

However, the tip of my left index finger is missing due to a high school woodworking accident. What is left of that finger might still be able to use the shutter as shown, but for most tasks I prefer to use my middle finger rather than my index finger. Do you think that will be feasable?

 

[MattKing]

I don't think @Rolleiflexible is checking in to Photrio any more, which is a shame, so I wouldn't expect to get a direct response from him.
But I think you will find that there are many different effective ways to use these cameras, and that the important thing is to choose one that is suited to you.
Anyone in the world who is left handed like me has years of experience with this!
In my case, I'm able to use my C330 essentially one-handed, with just a little bit of help from my right hand.
The C series TLRs happen to be well suited to those of us who are left handed.
But I do have a lot of historic experience with other options - I used to sell medium format cameras, which meant that I demonstrated cameras.
Some required more work from me than others - for me to adapt to them. And I definitely preferred some over others. But there always are options available.

 

[JPD]

You can cock the shutter lever with your right index finger and release it with your left index or long finger, use a cable release or use an accessory shutter release button that you screw into the cable release socket. You will find a way that works best for you.

I cock the shutter on my Rolleicords, and early 1930s Rolleiflex Standard models, with my right index finger because I find it easier to pull it rather than push it to cock. Pull it in one movement until you feel that the shutter cocks. If you let the lever go before that, there is a risk that the shutter opens and ruins the photo.

The type of sprung shutter release button/plunger you can use with the Rolleicord. It's best to wait for a seller who wants less for it, though. I have seen new cheap ones made in China, and they should work just as well.

Meister UNX-8556 Shutter Release For Rolleicord. New. | eBay

<p>Rolleicord shutter release new in packaging. Made in Japan. </p>

www.ebay.com

 

[runswithsizzers]

@MattKing, I’m sure you are right and the operation of the camera will not be too much of a problem, despite my missing fingertip. It’s not like I am a candidate for the paraolympics ;-)

@JPD, thanks for that. I have never seen one of those little spring-loaded cable release button thingies and was not aware they existed.

 

[btaylor]

@JPD, I have never seen one of those little spring-loaded cable release button thingies and was not aware they existed.
[/QUOTE]

When I bought my used Rolleicord V it came with that release. Apparently they are quite rare (and originals are now expensive!) as many were undoubtedly lost over the years- it’s nice someone made some new ones, I always use mine.

 

[JPD]

@JPD, I have never seen one of those little spring-loaded cable release button thingies and was not aware they existed.

When I bought my used Rolleicord V it came with that release. Apparently they are quite rare (and originals are now expensive!) as many were undoubtedly lost over the years- it’s nice someone made some new ones, I always use mine.

I have one that came with a now sold Rolleicord III or V, and I'm saving it for a future Rolleicord V/Va/Vb.

It's one of the accessories I like that a Chinese manufacturer started reproducing, and I hope they make more of them. A downside is that they are unmarked, so a seller could easily take $10 more for one without stating that it's a reproduction.

 

[Dan Daniel]

I have one that came with a now sold Rolleicord III or V, and I'm saving it for a future Rolleicord V/Va/Vb.

It's one of the accessories I like that a Chinese manufacturer started reproducing, and I hope they make more of them. A downside is that they are unmarked, so a seller could easily take $10 more for one without stating that it's a reproduction.

No idea where he gets his from-

Rolleicord shutter release pin for the cable release socket

magicflexcamera.com

 

[JPD]

No idea where he gets his from-

Rolleicord shutter release pin for the cable release socket

magicflexcamera.com

I don't know, but my guess is China. He also has a very nice looking Rolleiflex pin that can be found on Ebay from Chinese sellers.

 

[BrianShaw]

When I bought one, an original, about 8 years ago it too many years of searching for an “affordable” opportunity. I can’t remember how much I paid but remember wincing at both price and condition of the release. If I were in the market for one today I’d gladly pay that price and do so before they are no longer available. It’s difficult to imagine that the market is very deep for them so it wouldn’t be surprising if the came-and-went quickly.

 

[Yaeli]

Hello everyone,

I know it's been a year and a half since I last posted in this thread. I apologize for not giving any feedback. It's been a very rough year, but that's not an excuse.

So, I only replaced the focusing screen today. It took me about an hour, because I have two left hands and suck at anything manual.
The screen is indeed much brighter, and I can now focus indoors relatively easily. Outdoors, it's a breeze.
The screen seems to reflect light more than the old one, which is sometimes a bit of a pain, but I'll take the added brightness any day.
The mirror was clean.
You guys were right : the microprism and split screen were a mistake, and distract quite a bit. But I had already bought that version before you warned me, so...
The screen is a tiny, tiny bit thicker than the old one (less than half a millimeter) but according to the instructions, as long as I can focus to infinity, it's fine.

Anyway. I'm happy so far. I'll run a roll through it in a few days.
I am grateful to you all for your help and advice !

 

[Loren Sattler]

Yaeli, If you have installed a thicker screen your focusing will be compromised. Years ago I bought a new screen off eBay for my Rolleicord IV. It was a Mamiya screen and of a different thickness. I loved the brighness of the new screen as you have mentioned. I ended up sending the camera to a repair outlet and had the focusing readjusted. It is my favorite travel camera being medium format, light and compact.

 

[Yaeli]

Yaeli, If you have installed a thicker screen your focusing will be compromised. Years ago I bought a new screen off eBay for my Rolleicord IV. It was a Mamiya screen and of a different thickness. I loved the brighness of the new screen as you have mentioned. I ended up sending the camera to a repair outlet and had the focusing readjusted. It is my favorite travel camera being medium format, light and compact.

Ah... you're scaring me
From what I had read online, the Oleson screens worked really well with no issues. And the difference in thickness is really, really small, like I mentioned : maybe half a millimeter, if that.
But I guess I'll just have to wait and see, sadly...

 

[bernard_L]

And the difference in thickness is really, really small, like I mentioned : maybe half a millimeter, if that.

Half a mm (500µm) at f:4 results in a circle of confusion of 125µm. If I remember correctly, the "consensus" value for the tolerable COC in MF is 50µm. That is eaten by (a) the scene depth of field; (b) your own focusing inaccuracy; (c) the camera's adjustment of taking versus focusing lens. Not good to start already outside the error budget.

 

[Yaeli]

Half a mm (500µm) at f:4 results in a circle of confusion of 125µm. If I remember correctly, the "consensus" value for the tolerable COC in MF is 50µm. That is eaten by (a) the scene depth of field; (b) your own focusing inaccuracy; (c) the camera's adjustment of taking versus focusing lens. Not good to start already outside the error budget.

Well, that's very unfortunate. I did not expect issues from a piece of gear that was so universally recommended to me, especially not on something as critical as focusing...
Why do they even sell those ?
Sorry... I am p.ssed. I basically spent time effing up my camera... great...

 

[Dan Daniel]

The Oleson screen should have come with some shim material attached to the instruction sheets.

Its thickness is usually very close to the Rollei ground glass. Something tells me that your 'half a millimeter' is not the actual number. I'd expect a variance of maybe 0.15mm maximum.

I would: either set up a ground glass on the film plane and compare to the focus screen. Or shoot a test roll and do one or two slanted wall shots to see if the focus is off. You say that infinity looks good so I bet that you'll have minimal issues. The instructions will give you ideas on how to adjust if needed. If you don't have the info, contact them and they'll help you out.

On the focus aid, that distraction will go away or at least lessen. Just plow through the mental adjustment for now and see what happens. One thing to watch out for is that you will reframe an image in order to put the aid on your main subject. Then move the camera again to for final framing. With a TLR more than most cameras, it isn't hard to end up moving your whole body, swaying the camera, or such. This can lead to focus inaccuracy at close distances. Be aware of this and keep camera movements reduced with close focus.

 

[Yaeli]

The Oleson screen should have come with some shim material attached to the instruction sheets.

Its thickness is usually very close to the Rollei ground glass. Something tells me that your 'half a millimeter' is not the actual number. I'd expect a variance of maybe 0.15mm maximum.

I would: either set up a ground glass on the film plane and compare to the focus screen. Or shoot a test roll and do one or two slanted wall shots to see if the focus is off. You say that infinity looks good so I bet that you'll have minimal issues. The instructions will give you ideas on how to adjust if needed. If you don't have the info, contact them and they'll help you out.

On the focus aid, that distraction will go away or at least lessen. Just plow through the mental adjustment for now and see what happens. One thing to watch out for is that you will reframe an image in order to put the aid on your main subject. Then move the camera again to for final framing. With a TLR more than most cameras, it isn't hard to end up moving your whole body, swaying the camera, or such. This can lead to focus inaccuracy at close distances. Be aware of this and keep camera movements reduced with close focus.

Thank you for your message ! I feel a little bit reassured.
Yes, I've shot the last 10 frames of my HP5 on tests, focusing to infinity and minimal focus distance, and we'll see. I know, maybe 10 shots were overkill, but I really wasn't sure I was focusing right, even with my glasses and the loupe... That split screen doesn't seem super accurate (or I need to check my eyesight again... that's very possible...). Anyway.
I apologize to you all, and specifically to @bernard_L for my previous answer. I was really upset and angry and disappointed, and I shouldn't have replied right then and there.

 

[Pieter12]

If I remember correctly, a strip of Dymo label tape can be cut to use for shimming.

 

[bernard_L]

I apologize to you all, and specifically to @bernard_L for my previous answer

No need! I understood that you were p*ed off by the perceived situation, and did not, even remotely, take it personally. If only all exchanges on photrio were as civil.

And, you might actually be OK. Some tips:

• Checking that a picture taken at infinity is sharp is not a very good test because (a) infinity probably means daylight, and less-than-fully-open diaphragm --enhanced depth of field masks any possible mis-alignment; (b) how shap is sharp enough? meaning that you want the best co-alignment of film plane and focus screen plane
• Without wasting any film, just check that a distant (1/2 km, or 1/4 mile) pole is just unbroken in the focus prism when the focus knob reaches infinity. Of course, this assumes that the focus knob did not conspire with the focus screen to have the same error respective to the taing lens...
• About the slanted wall test rightly suggested by @Dan Daniel ... Should be done at max aperture (f/3.5?) I prefer a chicken-wire fence, shot at 45° (a gravel alley is also OK), and be sure to visually flag the spot where you focused. Choose a time of day when you can shoot at full aperture. Use a tripod. Better to use 100 ISO film. Then the fine structures should blur in a symmetrical way on either side. Better than scratching your head: "sure it looks sharp, but could it have been sharper?".
• I was myself quite happy when I bought a rolleicord Vb for a good price, because of the split prism in the focus screen. Once I started using it, I practiced focusing on the fine GG spot, and only after, checking the split prism. Bottom line: I actually do as well with the GG; the split prism felt safer but is not really better. Practice and gain confidence. Some aftermarket screens have microprisms: I cannot offer advice on these.
• Did you contact Rick Oleson? IMO he has good communication.
• You can use a 35mm SLR to check infinity, in succession, for the taking lens and the focusing lens. You will need a target in the film plane; I use a ground glass; lacking that you can use a piece cut from a CD jewel case with light scratches to materialize the film plane; not tracing paper as I've read sometimes.
  

  DIY: Calibrating/checking infinity focus

  I took the lens off an Argus C3 to grease the helicoid. The way the lens is removed makes it fairly easy to throw off focus. As such I did a focus check to verify it went back together correctly. This method works to check focus on pretty much any camera. The Argus just makes it really easy to...

  rangefinderforum.com
  You should also find a description of the method in Rick Oleson's Tech Notes at:
  

  Dropbox

  www.dropbox.com

Good luck