From what I understand Rollei had a license from Zeiss for their lens design. Hence the use of the Zeiss names. They are identical, optically, but the Rollei coating might have been their own. The license was never updated, so, while Hasselblad later had the newer Zeiss glad, the Rollei optics never changed. Only the electronic part, including shutter.
Rollei SLR's: Unloved in the States?
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From what I understand Rollei had a license from Zeiss for their lens design. Hence the use of the Zeiss names. They are identical, optically, but the Rollei coating might have been their own. The license was never updated, so, while Hasselblad later had the newer Zeiss glad, the Rollei optics never changed. Only the electronic part, including shutter.
So I see that SLX's and 6000's have interchangeable film backs. Do they work like Hassy's and Bronicas so that they can be exchanged at any point in shooting, or do you not have an insert that allows this and you're really stuck waiting until the end of the roll? FWIW, the form factor of the Rollei SLR's has some appeal on the basis of a smaller footprint.
The SLX does not have exchangable backs, but instead interchangable roll-holder inserts.
So there are no darkslide covered backs, but only inserts. Having ready, unprotected, inserts simplifies film changing a bit, if one has casings ready to put these inserts in.
But such does not facilitate mid-film exchange, what is a major benefit of film backs.
So there are no darkslide covered backs, but only inserts. Having ready, unprotected, inserts simplifies film changing a bit, if one has casings ready to put these inserts in.
But such does not facilitate mid-film exchange, what is a major benefit of film backs.
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AgX: So this means it shoots more like a 120 RF? Mamiya 6 or Mamiya 7 RF... only easier to change film? And no exchanging film during the middle of a roll?
Wouldn't be very practical even if it worked.
When you open the back the frame counter will reset. Unless it doesn't, see below. Would you place back the insert, the camera will simply try to advance to the first frame. From observing my SLX I figure this is how it works (maybe the actual implementation is different, but the behaviour is like that):
The back does communicate that film is present. It will not know if it is only backing paper or bp & film. The other signal is the state of the counter:
- counter is reset, ready for loading film
- counter somewhere from 1-12 (or 1-24 when 220 is selected)
- counter at end of film
When you load film into the insert and place it into the camera will know that film is present. What it does then upon pushing the shutter release depends on the counter state.
- If the counter is reset the drive will advance until the counter hits '1'.
- After that it will advance frame by frame
- after frame 12 it will advance until no film/backing paper is detected.
The trouble is that, with the counter at the end position, the fresh film will advance all the way to the end. I quickly switched off the camera and removed the insert in the dark to rewind the film.
If I really wanted to be sure I could check the counter before loading the film by releasing the shutter. If it is stuck at the end I'd have to open and close again, most likely. No loss of frames then.
Both my SLX came with at least one spare insert in a pouch, btw. If I needed to work fast (I don't) I could preload them all at home. Changing the ready loaded inserts will take only a few seconds.
Iantau: So can you carry two replacement film backs pre-loaded without problem... just remove an insert? or do these not work this way? Do you like your SLX's (Model 2 perhaps?) and are they new-to-you acquisitions, or purchased long ago "as new"? Preference to the later model 6000 series? What lens (or lenses) do you use? Do you have any size/weight experience comparing the SLX set up to a Bronica or Hasselblad?
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I've used a borrored SL66 and ended up with some nice transparencies. But they're just too expensive to own, when cheaper options exist like Bronica. I do own a SL26, but I'm sure no one thinks of that when they think of Rollei SLR. Mine actually works, and I'd use it too, if film and processing were available (and cheap).
Zeiss is how I spell temptation.
Plus easier to get service, parts, lenses and accessories.
The people at Rollei would have had to add a darkslide, then one would had two options: use just the inserts or different complete backs.
The darkslide as such would not have bee much of a problem, nor add much weigt. But as you hinted at, there still would have been the issue with the frame counter, true advance. Maybe that was the reason to restrict the features to this inserts approuch.
Good to learn that there are/were pouches for the inserts. Without such swapping inserts in the field would counter the benefit of preloaded films.
Hi,
the SLX is not a lightwight, more like a Hassy 500 ELM.
I have a SLX Mod. 2 since 1988, about 1.9 kg with Planar 2,8/80 and WLF.
The SLX, 6002, 6003 and 6001 have such type of back. The 6006 and 6008 have real interchangeable backs but are heavier.
Best
Jens
the SLX is not a lightwight, more like a Hassy 500 ELM.
I have a SLX Mod. 2 since 1988, about 1.9 kg with Planar 2,8/80 and WLF.
The SLX, 6002, 6003 and 6001 have such type of back. The 6006 and 6008 have real interchangeable backs but are heavier.
Best
Jens
Unable to figure all these nuances, I fell in with the Bronica SQ line earlier, but I've been curious to try to learn more about Rollei in the event I'm missing something. Sounds like with the 6006 and after series, yes... perhaps. At the start, the "improvements" or betterments seemed less important because I wasn't really committed to more than giving Medium Format a try. Now that I have and like it.... there's reason to look further and maybe focus more on whether there's a better way than I'm following at the moment. Not sure. But no matter, this discussion has been eye opening and very helpful. Thanks!
Jens: Well.... the Bronica SQ ain't no lightweight either. Though I have a side grip that makes it "better", better still is to attach my monopod and carry it over my shoulder while I walk. Looking it up in various places, 1.9Kg is about right for a Bronica SQ-A plus 80mm lens as well.
Which sounds like I'd be trading horses more than anything else, and not necessarily an additive move on all fronts. Some things "better", some not so much. Puts me back to "pause".
Which sounds like I'd be trading horses more than anything else, and not necessarily an additive move on all fronts. Some things "better", some not so much. Puts me back to "pause".
Yes, the back stays on. You flip it open, take out the insert and replace it with a pre loaded insert. The exposed film can stay on the insert and go into the pouch. The inserts are designed to keep the finished roll from 'unrolling'. But I haven't really done it yet, I only know that the rolls look stable as I take them out. I guess next time I shoot Fomapan (PET base) I'll have to try and see what happens when the film is in there for hours with all the vibration and shocks.
I have five inserts. One in each camera without a pouch for it, and three spares in a pouch each. Of course that takes a lot more space than taking a JCH 120 5x film case with you and load on scene.
I took some pictures, maybe that will help:
Insert with pouch. I put in a dummy film (Disclaimer: that is backing paper only, no film was harmed or tortured for this). The start line is visible on the other side right in the middle by the markings on the insert. Second picture is the open back without insert, third with insert. The insert is symmetrical, so that you can keep the empty spool in place. Just place a new film in the empty position and replace the insert such that the the fresh film will be in the top position. Close the back and hit the shutter, usually twice, and the camera will forward to the first frame.
I only started photography as a hobby in 2013 using the digital Olympus system. Before that I was simply a snapshot guy without any knowledge about the technicalities of photography (aperture, film/sensor speed, DoF, etc.). I started with 35mm film in Autumn 2015 and found the first SLX (rev. 1) on Ebay during the Christmas break. I had no prior MF experience, and so far I never physically even saw any MF camera except my own. I bought two 1920s folders a year ago (Ica 6x9 and Rodenstock 6x12) but haven't used them yet. They need CLA of lens, shutter and that 'brilliant finder' (English term, anyone?).
The 1st rev SLX is roughly as old as I am, and I believe that the Ebay seller was a professional photographer, who offloaded his system. It came with an 80/2.8 Planar, a good and a bad battery and two inserts for €290. I also bought a 50/4 Distagon, a 150/4 Sonnar and a a 250/5.6 Sonnar. The lenses were all good deals. The older lenses are often cheap, but people do try to find a fool sometimes.
The later PQ lenses (can do aperture priority and maybe some other tricks with the later 600x bodies) and especially the PQS (1/1000s shutter) can be very expensive. The Schneider lenses cost ridiculous money.The 2nd revision one was from an estate sale on Ebay. Some well off person must have bought a complete system in the beginning of the 80s. I payed €400 for the complete set in auction. Carry case, camera, 80mm planar, 2x teleconverter, Prism viewer and vertical viewer, a Gossen Lunasix F, batteries, two extension tubes, batteries, film inserts, an extra 6x4.5 back (not used it yet) and some other stuff. My most lucky buy on the bay so far.
Both cameras work fine, but I had the occasional hickup. Getting to know them I think I can handle/avoid those problems. I've had a few frames that were overexposed to near black. It might be the button on the cable remote. The camera needs a clean signal. It seems to be best to push the button firmly because a few times I had the shutter release not operating all the way through. Maybe the electric contact was to short or too weak. I'm not sure what is actually happening. Shutter or aperture blades click and stop there. Maybe the leaf shutter will stay closed or will stay open until I properly hit the button again. I'm not sure. When it happened I forgot to take a look into the lens to confirm which it is. It is a rare occurrence. I'm not even sure it resulted in a bad exposure each time. I'm too lazy to log each exposure all the time.
The older remote has corroded contacts on the connector. So I need to wiggle the connector and bring it into a position where it has proper contact. It's a DIN connector, most likely I could replace it with a new one. The newer, and smaller remote, from the 2nd revision camera, has nice blank contacts. You need the remote for mirror prerelease. A mechanical cable release can also be used for the shutter itself. You also need it for bulb exposure. Unless you want to keep the button pressed on the cable remote. Some later 600x cameras have a pre release button on the body, I believe.
I have also used the camera with near dead battery. Initially when I got the first SLX because I didn't have working charger yet. In cold winter weather the near empty cells couldn't handle it any longer. Eventually, as I forced my way through the film, the shutter opened and that was it.
The other time was when the battery was finally flat after 9 months and I was out shooting. I found my spare one self discharged over the same 9 months. Something you need to know about Nickel batteries. All avoidable, once you know. Some of the frames lost to overexposure may have happened there. I'm not sure because we're talking about 4-5 frames since I started in Jan 2016.I prefer external incident metering. But there is an internal meter, which tends to underexpose when you have bright highlights or sky in the frame. In simple, low contrast light I had it happen that the internal meter and external incident meter show the exact same exposure. The internal meter is in the body and does not need a prism. The internal meter also helped me recently to measure the exposure difference using a polariser at a given angle. I metered internally with and without filter and applied the observed difference to my external incident reading. Spot on!
Whenever possible I use tripod, but walking around, shooting handheld with the 80mm is perfectly fine. I keep the shutter at 1/250 or 1/500, but was forced to use slower speeds sometimes. Portra 800 is great for handheld while having plenty of reserves, 400 films are still perfect. And I accumulated lots of Provia 400X last year. I still have 68 rolls, now, for handheld roaming. Freshly expired in September and October, slumbering in the freezer until called.
Conclusion: I love the SLX, I even go hiking with it and still take 35mm along as well. I originally read about the Hasselblads and wanted one, but they are ridiculously expensive again. Then I saw the Rollei mentioned somewhere and found the first one online. There are no foam seals on the back. All solid hard plastic and metal, except for two foam mirror dampeners, which look like fresh from the factory. For me as a layman the cameras look like they were designed to be completely maintenance free. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
Next week I'll fly to Hong Kong with it. One SLX, two Minolta 35mm and digital system into one photo backpack as my carry on. Holy trinity of lenses each for the two film formats. The Olympus digital and a few lenses fit into the cracks left by the film equipment.
I don't know what you mean here. There are postings from several years back out there on the net from a guy from within Zeiss that stated the optics are identical when considering output at a point in time for either system. Lenses like the 40mm with floating elements for example have identical resolution charts to the made for Hasselblad equivalent, that is about as new a lens design as any of us would be interested in and of course Rollei had/has the arguably superior Schneider optics as well to chose from carried on through to the Hy6.
There are some fantastic PQ and PQS lenses but some bad holes, nothing around 100 to 120mm for example except the Makro Planar must have put people off over the years, especially given how popular some of the Zeiss for blad lenses have been in that range.
They did offer changable magazines for later models. I think it likely that the magazines still used the inserts. After all the Hasselblad ones have an insert as well. Only that you have to keep insert and magazine paired, otherwise the pressure plate will not do its job correctly.
I read that instead of a dark slide, the Rollei magazines have a folding blind. It folds up and you're ready to go. No darkslide that can be lost. And I assume they have an interlock so you cannot forget to open before using the camera.
I don't think Zeiss left the 60s designs unchanged forever. As I understand the PQ and PQS lenses are optically exactly the same as the older HFT. Maybe they have a better coating. I'm just saying that Rollei at some point bought these licenses for given designs and used them to the end. Didn't the Hasselblads get newer Zeiss lenses in the 80s or so? I'm not saying the the older designs are any bad. Leica is revising their designs every now and then and so do all the others.
I used my old Rollei HFT lenses to shot Autumn foliage with Velvia 50 in the Alps a few weeks ago, and the fine details are really impressive from corner to corner. When you get the focus right...
Photos are helpful. SLX seems configured to work conceptually similar to the Mamiya RF's (6 and 7). Not sure how much benefit is derived from the inserts, but would assume there's some or you wouldn't bother with them. But the concept is essentially shoot one roll until you're done, and then load the next. With only 12 shots, this isn't the bother that 36 shots is with 35mm, so perhaps it works. I rarely switch backs with my Bronica, and find that when I do the spacing between the frames tends to widen slightly - about the measure of a 1/4 to 1/2 stroke of the speed grip. With the SQ set, I've been wondering about a wider than 50mm lens, and decided 35mm is probably too wide (too much distortion), and 40mm might do. But they seem to be scarce. Scarcity of the Rollei SLR's (SLX and 6000's) seems to be a problem, too. Good to hear that there are happy users out there. Love your story! FWIW, I grew up shooting film and shooting it fairly seriously but then wigged out to other pursuits. Back as a sixty-ish adult hobbyist only in the last few years, I've followed a similar digital to film journey. Long road, but traveled fast enough to find there's really no "perfect" camera.
The only light weight 120/220 slr camera is the Hasselblad. All the others, Bronica, Mamiya, Rollei, replace needing to workout in the gym.
Yes, but in those days you also could get 24 frames, with type 220.
SG: If I remember right, as one of the Hasselbladiest men on the planet, perhaps you can tell me the weight of a 500CX (?) body with an 80mm 2.8 lens? Everyone else is tugging 1.9 Kg's here... outside of the Mamiya 6 RF that I think clocks in at half that.
You do not see me lugging around a motor driven Hasselblad around, do you? My parents raised smart children.
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