Rodinal - and thoughts

georg16nik · Jan 6, 2016

Hat tip.

piu58 said:
If you use Rodinal with 16°C, you can reach 1/3 ... 1/2 stop more and so coming closer to the bos speed. The reason may be that the developer has mor time to reach and develop the deeper emulsion parts.

The time is 1.6 times longer, that means 21 mins instead of 13.

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/98227-making-most-rodinal.html
[url]http://home.arcor.de/piu58/fotoweb/ftechnik.html
[/URL]

jim appleyard · Jan 6, 2016

I never had a problem with HP-5 and Rodinal. The only film that didn't work for me was T-max 3200 in 35mm; GRAIN!

mablo · Jan 6, 2016

35mm HP5 is not bad at all in Rodinal. I like to use 1+25 dilution, ISO 400, and agitate very little. Like 30 seconds to begin with and then two inversions per minute. One trick I've learned is to develop just one roll at the time in two roll tank. I don't know why but the upper roll in the tank becomes hopelessly grainy when the lower roll is completely fine.

baachitraka · Jan 6, 2016

@mablo:
- Are they same film(manufacture/ISO)?

- Were they exposed the same?

Chrismat · Jan 6, 2016

I usually prefer medium format for the tonality, but I do like the look of 35mm Tri-X in Rodinal 1:50. A number of years ago I made a 16X20 enlargement of a scene I took in Scotland as a gift for someone, and it came out really well.

bence8810 · Jan 6, 2016

I recently only use Rodinal. It's just so easy to mix - then dump at the end of development. No need to worry about the aging etc.

I shoot Eastman 5222 at 400 and 1600.
Develop in Rodinal 1:50 at 20C for:

11 min @ 400
25 min @ 1600

At 400 I get nice tones and high contrast with a moderate amount of grain.
At 1600 I get little tonality and extremely high contrast with a lot of grain.

I like both looks and the negatives print well!

Ben

sagai · Jan 6, 2016

I have noticed some crystallisation in Rodinal, is it normal? Any thoughts to get rid of those?

piu58 · Jan 7, 2016

> crystallisation ... is it normal?

Yes. Rodinal contains caustic potash. In contact with air the solution absorbs carbon dioxide which changes the caustic to potassium carbonate which is less soluble.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 7, 2016

Love 5222 and shoot it at an EI of 400. Develop it for 7.5 m @ 21C. Here in Florida the sun provides plenty of contrast.

sagai · Jan 7, 2016

piu58 said:
> crystallisation ... is it normal?

Yes. Rodinal contains caustic potash. In contact with air the solution absorbs carbon dioxide which changes the caustic to potassium carbonate which is less soluble.

Thanks Uwe!

So, how can we deal with it?

Do we have to filter it out or it might be dilute upon warming up ? or something else or even none to do?

Thanks!

railwayman3 · Jan 7, 2016

sagai said:
Thanks Uwe!

So, how can we deal with it?

Do we have to filter it out or it might be dilute upon warming up ? or something else or even none to do?

Thanks!

Within reason, it's safe to just ignore it. Rodinal lasts for years (a useful property if you don't develop many films) and I've found that it's still good even if the concentrate gets quite brown and sticky.

Alan Johnson · Jan 7, 2016

piu58 said:
> crystallisation ... is it normal?

Yes. Rodinal contains caustic potash. In contact with air the solution absorbs carbon dioxide which changes the caustic to potassium carbonate which is less soluble.

Where did you get this idea?The solubility of potassium carbonate is 112g per 100ml at 20 C.

Ian Grant · Jan 7, 2016

Most of the issues with Rodinal are caused by poor technique, it contains free Hydroxide and this has a tendency to soften the emulsion of some films which are less hardened than most.

In Germany use of lower processing temperatures 16ºC - 18ºC are often advocated for the finest grain with Rodinal, this helps inhibit swelling of the emulsion. However in practice as long as you use tight control of your processing temperatures ensuring little to no variation you will achieve excellent results and very fine grain with medium and slower speed films.

Ian

Xmas · Jan 7, 2016

sagai said:
I have noticed some crystallisation in Rodinal, is it normal? Any thoughts to get rid of those?

Ignore don't decant or rebottle usable to last drip, OK after 25 years.

Xmas · Jan 7, 2016

Ian Grant said:
Most of the issues with Rodinal are caused by poor technique, it contains free Hydroxide and this has a tendency to soften the emulsion of some films which are less hardened than most.

In Germany use of lower processing temperatures 16ºC - 18ºC are often advocated for the finest grain with Rodinal, this helps inhibit swelling of the emulsion. However in practice as long as you use tight control of your processing temperatures ensuring little to no variation you will achieve excellent results and very fine grain with medium and slower speed films.

Ian

There is an expansion shock to the emulsion going from high pH (OH ion) to acid stop if you must use an acid stop with non prehardned film you need tight temperature control.
Ilford, Fuji and Kodak are lower risk...

I use Rodinal with 400 ISO but I like grain.

piu58 · Jan 7, 2016

> ?The solubility of potassium carbonate is 112g per 100ml at 20 C.

You can solve more than a kilogram of caustic potash in a liter water. Other ingredients lower the solubility of both potashes, of course.

Alan Johnson · Jan 7, 2016

I think it more likely that any crystals are from potassium aminophenolate being deposited from a superaturated solution as they may be found in bottles sealed off from the atmosphere.

Xmas · Jan 7, 2016

Alan Johnson said:
I think it more likely that any crystals are from potassium aminophenolate being deposited from a superaturated solution as they may be found in bottles sealed off from the atmosphere.

Yes but the question was were they a problem?
Answer no ignore just screw the cap back on.

Rupie · Jan 7, 2016

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Very interesting, I am trying Rodinal for the first time, I have a large project and I need to keep things simple and costs down. I started using it with FP4 and Acros 100 and had results that were way off the mark. The post above is all about my problems. I'm shooting on an RB67, and know one else believes me, stating how they have all had brilliant results for years. I moved over to Ilford Ilfosol 3 and the first roll developed just jumped out at me, I don't know what I struggled for so long.

But so many love it ? I may buy a fresh new bottle one day and see if it was just a faulty batch.

mitchins · Jan 7, 2016

Thanks everyone. I've got back and found some scans and also shot a new roll of HP5+ with a new (old) RB6x7 I recently acquired (Side note it's a really nice machine).
I scratched the film up to buggery trying to get it onto a patterson reel that's probably older (it had no trouble with GP3 or Fomapan), the Ilford film was very smooth, and didn't gain appropriate friction (and my reel didn't stick exactly right) lessons learnt, use my newer reel for Ilford.

Here's a rundown:
Box of film: HP5+ Rodinal 1+25 6 minutes [RB67]
Sign: Fomapan 200 - Stand developed [M656 PRO]
motor cycle: GP3 100 Stand developed [M645 PRO]

I really have only good things to say about resolution (and even perhaps grain) of GP3. Sure it curls like a piece of fruit in the sun and the blue anti-halation needs to be washed out thoroughly or it may leak/stick.
I've been disappointed resolution wise by Fomapan - Should I switch to the 100 and it would look as good as GP3? I've been told the 200 is 'creative', I'm not 100% sure I like it that much.
Rodinal + HP5 gives a salt/peppery look (given results I've seen Fuji Pro 400H come out like and that's a colour film I feel its safe to say its not optimal?)

Xmas · Jan 7, 2016

HP5+ or Kentmere 400 may be better 1:100 20C full stand 50-60 minutes.

mitchins · Jan 7, 2016

Xmas said:
HP5+ or Kentmere 400 may be better 1:100 20C full stand 50-60 minutes.

What's kentmere? I've heard it mentioned but it seems to have never been available in Australia.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

baachitraka · Jan 7, 2016

Your have exposed the sign which is in the shade.

- It may need bit more exposure to have certain brilliance.
- Remember Foma films builds contrast rather very fast, which is obvious in the case presented.
- Test all films with same scene and with similar lighting conditions.

Fomapan 200 is very good film.

Expose at E.I. 100 and develop 20% less with Rodinal.

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk

mitchins · Jan 7, 2016

baachitraka said:
Your have exposed the sign which is in the shade.

- It may need bit more exposure to have certain brilliance.
- Remember Foma films builds contrast rather very fast, which is obvious in the case presented.
- Test all films with same scene and with similar lighting conditions.

Fomapan 200 is very good film.

Expose at E.I. 100 and develop 20% less with Rodinal.

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk

Thanks, I will try it more, and keep that in mind.
I like Foma, or I am trying to as I learn more about it.
It seems to have great potential at a very good price point (even cheaper if I get the purported arista version), I just realised GP3 has been discontinued!

Xmas · Jan 7, 2016

mitchins said:
What's kentmere? I've heard it mentioned but it seems to have never been available in Australia.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Both are Harman products the Kentmere is cheaper normally about 2/3 in bulk.
Difficult to tell apart.

The only thing you got is tiger snakes and whitewash for pommies.

Rodinal - and thoughts

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