Revisiting 'Preflashing' with Rodinal

[Cholentpot]

My respects and greetings to all North East Ohio residents. the wonderful

Have some of our snow, we'll take some sand and sun.

 

[gone]

I suppose this would be "lets see what happens" experiment rather than a scientific method excersise

Is there really much of a difference? The amount of things that have been discovered by doing just exactly that are probably w/o number. Scientific research is like that, it's curious people who are geared towards......... let's try this and just see what happens? Because it all starts this way, but the trials and testing part are where things can get laborious and dull.

 

[Donald Qualls]

How would I go about using lye? What's the dilution?

Since we know Rodinal at 1:100 works well, I'd emulate that level. Parodinal stock solution contains 80 g/L, so 1% of that, 0.8 g/L should give the same alkalinity as your Rodinal working solution -- give or take the buffering effect of the sulfite in that formula, which would be 2 g/L after dilution. I'd probably try it on a scrap of the film to see if the sulfite contributes. Lye or caustic soda is available in most of the industrialized world as a drain opener or pH adjuster; sodium sulfite is fairly easy to get most places if you need it.

 

[Cholentpot]

Is there really much of a difference? The amount of things that have been discovered by doing just exactly that are probably w/o number. Scientific research is like that, it's curious people who are geared towards......... let's try this and just see what happens? Because it all starts this way, but the trials and testing part are where things can get laborious and dull.

Caffeinol is one of these cases I think. Someone said 'What if?' and did it, or I'd like to imagine. In my case, I'm happy with the results, I'll try it again in a slightly different way next time.

Since we know Rodinal at 1:100 works well, I'd emulate that level. Parodinal stock solution contains 80 g/L, so 1% of that, 0.8 g/L should give the same alkalinity as your Rodinal working solution -- give or take the buffering effect of the sulfite in that formula, which would be 2 g/L after dilution. I'd probably try it on a scrap of the film to see if the sulfite contributes. Lye or caustic soda is available in most of the industrialized world as a drain opener or pH adjuster; sodium sulfite is fairly easy to get most places if you need it.

Right. Thanks, I'll be attempting this. I have sodium metabisulfite kicking around. I'm no chemist, just make some wine or beer at times and I have some. Would this work?

 

[Donald Qualls]

The metabisulfite is slightly acidic, while sodium sulfite is slightly alkaline. I'd try it first with plain lye, if that works well, there's no need to mess with anything else.

 

[Cholentpot]

The metabisulfite is slightly acidic, while sodium sulfite is slightly alkaline. I'd try it first with plain lye, if that works well, there's no need to mess with anything else.

10-4

 

[Donald Qualls]

BTW, I just realized why borax didn't work well for remjet removal -- I had it out of order in the pH progression. Borax, baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), washing soda (sodium carbonate), lye (sodium hydroxide). Washing soda is what I always see people use on YouTube, lower pH than that might not have much if any effect.

 

[Cholentpot]

BTW, I just realized why borax didn't work well for remjet removal -- I had it out of order in the pH progression. Borax, baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), washing soda (sodium carbonate), lye (sodium hydroxide). Washing soda is what I always see people use on YouTube, lower pH than that might not have much if any effect.

Got my box of 20 Mule Team Borax. Sodium Tetraborate says the box.

Didn't work for me.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Yep, that's borax. Less alkaline than bicarbonate or carbonate. Hence why D-72 works faster than D-76.

It probably takes a certain level of pH to loosen the adhesive layer that holds the carbon black to form remjet.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Have some of our snow, we'll take some sand and sun.

I actually live next to the pyramids, my alien friends the inhabitants of galaxies and other planets come to visit me easily as this place is easily accessible.
Yes we can trade some sand and sun for snow and ice

 

[Cholentpot]

Yep, that's borax. Less alkaline than bicarbonate or carbonate. Hence why D-72 works faster than D-76.

It probably takes a certain level of pH to loosen the adhesive layer that holds the carbon black to form remjet.

So it makes sense the baking soda was doing a better job. Never used D-72...

I actually live next to the pyramids, my alien friends the inhabitants of galaxies and other planets come to visit me easily as this place is easily accessible.
Yes we can trade some sand and sun for snow and ice

I climbed the pyramids but got yelled at by a soldier on a camel. Camel had a mounted machine gun on it. No aliens that I could see though.

 

[pentaxuser]

I climbed the pyramids but got yelled at by a soldier on a camel. Camel had a mounted machine gun on it. No aliens that I could see though.

Yes I am not surprised. These are genuine antiquities. A camel with mounted machine guns are rare. I didn't see any there on my visit. Perhaps they were warned you were coming and worried that you might mistake the real things for those in one of the Las Vegas casinos where everything is imitation except Caesar's Palace and Elvis the pastor who can marry you and later arrange a quick taxi to Reno if the marriage doesn't work out

pentaxuser

 

[mohmad khatab]

No aliens that I could see though.

 

[Cholentpot]

Yes I am not surprised. These are genuine antiquities. A camel with mounted machine guns are rare. I didn't see any there on my visit. Perhaps they were warned you were coming and worried that you might mistake the real things for those in one of the Las Vegas casinos where everything is imitation except Caesar's Palace and Elvis the pastor who can marry you and later arrange a quick taxi to Reno if the marriage doesn't work out

pentaxuser

I think my Israeli stamped passport may have set off some alarm bells. It a shame, I had nothing to do with photography back then. I was a broke student with a backpack and a spare pair of socks. I don't think I have a single photo of my trip.

 

[pentaxuser]

I saw a mummified dog in the Egyptian Museum that was in such good almost life-like condition at probably 3,500 years old that I was drawn towards it The guard sensed that I was tempted to stroke it as if it was alive so he rightly shouted at me. Goodness knows what damage a sweaty human hand might have done

Frankly it matched anything I saw at the Pyramids Can you imagine a mummified Roy sitting on a mummified Trigger still in place in one of the Las Vegas casinos in near perfect condition in 5,500 A D

pentaxuser

 

[Cholentpot]

Just finished scanning the roll of 500T @800 I put through the EOS 500n. It seems this camera does have a tendency to underexpose. Even with the thinner negs the results are not as color noisy as without the Rodinal. I don't have any to share off that roll as all the photo are of a personal nature. I'll revisit this method in the future, maybe with some fresher developer next time. I might test it out on some 16mm/110 soon.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Never used D-72...

D-72 is the basis for commercial Dektol. A fairly basic MQ-carbonate universal developer (works well on both film and paper).

 

[cmacd123]

I would have expected starting development in a black and white developer to result in LESS colour image, as the silver that would be developed in Rodinal is not available to react with the colour developer.However the presence of the Rodinal may make the film more alkaline, thus acting as a development accelerator for the colour developer.
Rodinal may develop the Large Grains first, thus only leaving the finer grained crystals to the colour developer.

the alkaline solution will certianly remove the remjet. PB-2 the prebath for ecn2 has a Ph of 9.25

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

the presence of the Rodinal may make the film more alkaline, thus acting as a development accelerator for the colour developer.

OP's process has a rinse step after the Rodinal bath. This would have removed all the Rodinal from the tank and the film (else it would contaminate the colour developer in the subsequent step). So neither the film nor the colour developer is made more alkaline by the Rodinal bath. What the Rodinal bath does is, it reduces the induction time of the colour developer. This might or might not be desirable.

 

[Mike1A]

I know this is a couple weeks old but I was searching after rodinal and remjet. I was testing some old pa rodinal at about 1:15. All I had was some well expired ek 50D film. I put a clip in and left it for a couple minutes started turning dark. I move it to retrieve it and as I pulled it most of the remjet circled in the rodinal soup. I put it in a stream of water an viola! Remjet gone. I like this process of predevelopment in rodinal very similar to Kodak Ae-31 process after developing color films as b&w to restore the color only in this case an incomplete b&w process. Cool thanks for posting. Rodinal may be the remjet miracle and this chases about 5 steps out of the ae-31 process.

 

[Cholentpot]

I know this is a couple weeks old but I was searching after rodinal and remjet. I was testing some old pa rodinal at about 1:15. All I had was some well expired ek 50D film. I put a clip in and left it for a couple minutes started turning dark. I move it to retrieve it and as I pulled it most of the remjet circled in the rodinal soup. I put it in a stream of water an viola! Remjet gone. I like this process of predevelopment in rodinal very similar to Kodak Ae-31 process after developing color films as b&w to restore the color only in this case an incomplete b&w process. Cool thanks for posting. Rodinal may be the remjet miracle and this chases about 5 steps out of the ae-31 process.

AE-1 Process? Cool. Learn something new everyday

 

[Mike1A]

AE-1 Process? Cool. Learn something new everyday

Yes, AE-31 https://125px.com/docs/techpubs/kodak/ae31.pdf "Printing [Re-processes] Color Films Developed as Black-and-White"

 

[Murray Kelly]

Developer for Aviphot Pan 200

Hmmm Alan, I think your curve is adding "posterization" in shadow side of the wall? Is it reverse S one? As I remember from 30 years ago, I had no problem enlarging 24x36mm HP-5 negative developed in Emofine to 50x60cm. Grain was not issue even at that magnification.

www.photrio.com

See #130 for Metol and cd-4 interaction.I do not know if p-aminophenol and methyl-aminophenol would work interchangeably but they are close in many ways.

Might be a clue.

 

[Mike1A]

Developer for Aviphot Pan 200

Hmmm Alan, I think your curve is adding "posterization" in shadow side of the wall? Is it reverse S one? As I remember from 30 years ago, I had no problem enlarging 24x36mm HP-5 negative developed in Emofine to 50x60cm. Grain was not issue even at that magnification.

www.photrio.com

See #130 for Metol and cd-4 interaction.I do not know if p-aminophenol and methyl-aminophenol would work interchangeably but they are close in many ways.

Might be a clue.

Could be, I don't know what, if anything the B&W developer is doing with the ECN-2 development. I tried a color monobath that had phenidone in it along with CD-2 and there wasn't much color. HOWEVER, if Alan Johnson was using the CD-4 with the Aviphot as a PPD developer, of sorts, there is some known superadditive traits of PPD and also PPD can work at a much lover pH and can "boost" another developer so that it can work at a lower pH, I believe. I'm trying to channel Ed Lowe without actually finding the books and reading them, LOL.

 

[Mike1A]

Developer for Aviphot Pan 200

Hmmm Alan, I think your curve is adding "posterization" in shadow side of the wall? Is it reverse S one? As I remember from 30 years ago, I had no problem enlarging 24x36mm HP-5 negative developed in Emofine to 50x60cm. Grain was not issue even at that magnification.

www.photrio.com

See #130 for Metol and cd-4 interaction.I do not know if p-aminophenol and methyl-aminophenol would work interchangeably but they are close in many ways.

Might be a clue.

Don't ask me the science, but I think before "inventing" the use of p-aminophenol as a developer, it was used in textile dyes, it is also used in hair coloring, it has some relationship to "improving" (my word) the color couplers in the development, So in some hair dyes you have PPD and p-aminophenol. So I guess there might be some method in the madness...