Replacing shutter blinds (and probably more) on a Thornton Pickard Ruby Deluxe 1/4 plate

[Digital Wendy]

Picked up this project again yesterday evening, after a 2 week pause.
Mostly good news . Shutter timing is now working again - after some uncomfortable moments. I'll get it back into the case soon to see whether the release works as it should. Photos to follow too.

 

[Ian Grant]

The f2.5 Speedic TTH Cooke Series X.

Ian

 

[Digital Wendy]

The f2.5 Speedic TTH Cooke Series X.

View attachment 305353

Ian

25/- was a LOT of money in 1926!
About £700 in 2022 GBP.

 

[Digital Wendy]

Another pause in this project - some kind of mental melt-down left me with the wrong size of replacement mirror from the incredibly helpful guys at Vacuum Coatings. We'll get it all sorted out this week.
Hope fully I'll still remember how to put all those tiny screws back into the right places when the second new mirror arrives.

 

[Digital Wendy]

Saturday night, and about to reassmble the shutter/mirror box and mechanism.

• New mirror arrived from the wonderful people at VCSM
• Nice thin, firm velvety fabric, courtesty of @Ian Grant to back the mirror and seal the mirror frame against light when it is raised.
• Mirror lever adjustment screw has finally been 'persuaded' into action
• Can confirm that inside of shutter assembly and camera is black flock lined, as we discussed Ian.

________________________________________
Sunday morning.

• Camera full reassembled. All seems to work and testing has begun!
• Suspect I need to adjust the mirror for perfect focussing through the top viewfinder. This needs some thought.
• Had hoped to post an image made with the camera, but weather is not co-operating. (Will probably take over an hour of bright sunshine to produce an image on cyanotype paper as I had planned)

________________________________________
Still to do:

• Replace final light baffle above shutter rollers
• Shim out/set back mirror to correct focus
• Release jammed stops mechamism on lens
• Find and fit a new leather handle
  
  

 

[Digital Wendy]

Quick ( 3+ hours ) cyanonegative top prove to myself that it works - well sort of so far.
Will load a 120 film at the weekend.

 

[Digital Wendy]

Camera shake, over-exposure, light leaks . . . and I couldn't be more pleased

 

[Digital Wendy]

Also now realise it should properly be called a 4x5" rather than 'Quarter Plate'. Goodness knows how they ever arrived at all those plate and film sizes . . .

 

[Ian Grant]

It's definitely Quarter plate, the differences in sizes between 5x4, 9x12, and Quarter plate are quite subtle. 9x12 is roughly the same length as 5x4 give a couple of mm, the Quarter plate is near the same width as 9x12 but shorter.

Ian

 

[Digital Wendy]

It's definitely Quarter plate, the differences in sizes between 5x4, 9x12, and Quarter plate are quite subtle. 9x12 is roughly the same length as 5x4 give a couple of mm, the Quarter plate is near the same width as 9x12 but shorter.

Ian

Thanks Ian. I'm definately confused.

 

[MattKing]

Whole Plate - 6.5" x 8.5" - is a really nice size.
It (and the related Half Plate and Quarter Plate) originated in an environment that was relatively independent from the environment where 8x10, 5x7 and 4x5 originated from.
Add the extra complication of metric sizes, and you realize that trying to move from paradigm to paradigm is always going to create potential confusion.

 

[Ian Grant]

Matt, Whole or Full plate was still the common size used to glaze windows in Victorian times.

Wendy, this is the relative sizes of 5x4 film actually 127mm x 102mm, next is the Continental European 9x12, and finally Quarter plate.

Ian

 

[awty]

Great work Wendy.

I have some early shutters that I need to recurtain some day, this thread will be a great reference.

 

[Digital Wendy]

Progress report.
Camera captures lovely images. A bit 'theatrical' to use so all my subjects have big smiles!
Right now I'm using 120 film in a Graflex '51' Film roll holder and contact printing using cyanotype. Decidedly NOT a digital process so have not scanned any results. I've already given most of the prints away to my very patient sitters!

Next up:

• Lens is still stuck at f2.5. Of course DoF is for wimps - but it can be nice to have sometimes. The new (to me) 'Bokeh' trend makes me unusually fashionable, but would still be nice to have more than peoples' noses in focus. Research underway for a lens technician with the right experience.
• I'm hoping the universe will deliver a TP or Graflex 120 film back for it some time soon. This will give me slightly larger negs, until I make the jump to quarter plate sheet film. I'm currently getting 60x83mm negs and it's great to be able to develop using a familiar roll film process.
• More focussing adjustments may be needed. It's a 'soft' lens so testing is not certain but I'm wondering whether the film is aligned in exactly the same plane as the ground glass screen. (This could change again if I move from 120 to 220 roll film)

 

[awty]

Progress report.
Camera captures lovely images. A bit 'theatrical' to use so all my subjects have big smiles!
Right now I'm using 120 film in a Graflex '51' Film roll holder and contact printing using cyanotype. Decidedly NOT a digital process so have not scanned any results. I've already given most of the prints away to my very patient sitters!

Next up:

• Lens is still stuck at f2.5. Of course DoF is for wimps - but it can be nice to have sometimes. The new (to me) 'Bokeh' trend makes me unusually fashionable, but would still be nice to have more than peoples' noses in focus. Research underway for a lens technician with the right experience.
• I'm hoping the universe will deliver a TP or Graflex 120 film back for it some time soon. This will give me slightly larger negs, until I make the jump to quarter plate sheet film. I'm currently getting 60x83mm negs and it's great to be able to develop using a familiar roll film process.
• More focussing adjustments may be needed. It's a 'soft' lens so testing is not certain but I'm wondering whether the film is aligned in exactly the same plane as the ground glass screen. (This could change again if I move from 120 to 220 roll film)

Have you tried taking the lenses out and using a hair dryer to heat up the barrel enough to free up the aperture blades?
Try some xray film and cut down to half plate size. Xray film is great for cyanotypes.
I made my own back to fit a 6x9 roll holder, was going to convert to 6x12, but decided best to just use and make a dedicated 6x12 camera.

 

[Digital Wendy]

Have you tried taking the lenses out and using a hair dryer to heat up the barrel enough to free up the aperture blades?
Try some xray film and cut down to half plate size. Xray film is great for cyanotypes.
I made my own back to fit a 6x9 roll holder, was going to convert to 6x12, but decided best to just use and make a dedicated 6x12 camera.
View attachment 310945

Thank you for the encouragement - those look very effective. Can see you used an adapt-a-roll - I'll start watching for something similar.
Here in the UK we can still (sometimes) buy quarter plate sheet film, I'm just not quite ready to develop it yet.

 

[ProbablyPasta]

For reference:

View attachment 304526

Shutter detail of my g=first Ruby Reflex.

View attachment 304527

Mirror box & shutter.

View attachment 304528
There is a spring not sitting correctly, without a functioning shutter it was difficult to resolve. In this image the shutter is un-cocked, the two curtains should overlap by approx 1/4 of an inch as it's a self capping shutter. So I need to adjust the 2nd curtain.

I sent these via PM 3 days ago, but they may be useful to others.

View attachment 304529

View attachment 304530

The shutters stamped Patent no 6283-12 are essentially mechanically the same, the take-up drums are simpler than in the Patent drawing. The main differences are in the mirror fitting.

Ian

Hi ian, im currently working on a ruby shutter myself, and i was wondering how one determined the length of “tape“ needed for the shutter curtains. In my camera someone had worked on it earlier and simply glued the 2 curtains together with some tape to space them out, so i have no template or frame of reference

 

[Ian Grant]

The initial length of the tape is not critical as you will need excess to adjust the curtains anyway.

Remember the 1st curtain (the one on top) has only has to move just over the long length of the format. so with a 5x4 Ruby Reflex that's about 5½ inches. the 2nd curtain is the one that is used to adjust the shutter speed and so slit width so here the at the slowest speed and maximum slit width you are looking at maybe 11 inches.

So make the tapes a bit too long, you can cut of excess later.

Ian

 

[Digital Wendy]

Hi ian, im currently working on a ruby shutter myself . . .

Hope it's going well. They are amazing cameras to use.
What size is it and what kind of lens do you have?
Right now mine is being used with a Lomograflok back for instant colour pictures. Hugely entertaining for everyone.
Once I have another camera for the Lomograflok I'll switch 'Ruby' back to film work.
Instagram link for Ruby in action with the Lomograflok back

 

[ProbablyPasta]

The initial length of the tape is not critical as you will need excess to adjust the curtains anyway.

View attachment 361688

Remember the 1st curtain (the one on top) has only has to move just over the long length of the format. so with a 5x4 Ruby Reflex that's about 5½ inches. the 2nd curtain is the one that is used to adjust the shutter speed and so slit width so here the at the slowest speed and maximum slit width you are looking at maybe 11 inches.

So make the tapes a bit too long, you can cut of excess later.

Ian

thank you so much!! your threads and info have been a massive help on my journey of restoring this camera back to working order, i’ll get on that when i get back home tomorrow!

 

[ProbablyPasta]

Hope it's going well. They are amazing cameras to use.
What size is it and what kind of lens do you have?
Right now mine is being used with a Lomograflok back for instant colour pictures. Hugely entertaining for everyone.
Once I have another camera for the Lomograflok I'll switch 'Ruby' back to film work.
Instagram link for Ruby in action with the Lomograflok back

I’ve got a “horizontal” modification of the ruby special series of cameras, seems to be a half plate (?). the lens is this absolutely gorgeous brass finished TP “beok symmetrical “ with aperture from f8 to f64 (!!). makes focusing very hard tho, since with the lens wide open there isn’t enough DOF to focus the lens, and stopping it down makes the viewfinder so dark i can’t see anything

 

[Ian Grant]

Are you sure it's a Horizontal ? Some photos of the back would help, There were 5x4, Half plate 6½x4¾ inch, and 7x5 (18x13cm).

Ian

 

[ProbablyPasta]

Are you sure it's a Horizontal ? Some photos of the back would help, There were 5x4, Half plate 6½x4¾ inch, and 7x5 (18x13cm).

Ian

unfortunately i can’t show you a photo of the back right now, since the file is larger than 2mb and i don’t have anything to compress it down with on my phone :/ i’ll be sure to upload some to flickr or something similar when i’ve got better service so i can attach the links here. There is a small plate on the back of the camera that say Ruby Horizontal in cursive with the TP logo in the middle, and the film holder is inserted horizontally so i assume that checks out. Did they make the horizontal modification in different plate sizes too? this is my first delve into a format larger than 120 film, so i’m clueless as can be about all this stuff

 

[ProbablyPasta]

Are you sure it's a Horizontal ? Some photos of the back would help, There were 5x4, Half plate 6½x4¾ inch, and 7x5 (18x13cm).

Ian

as promised, here’s a link to the google photos album containing the pictures of the camera, back, shutter mechanism and how it stands now. Needs a new mirror too, but i’ll get to that when i get my next paycheck xD

TP ruby horizontal · Jan 24âââFeb 4, 2024 ð¸

Shared album · Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Digital Wendy]

as promised, here’s a link to the google photos album containing the pictures of the camera, back, shutter mechanism and how it stands now. Needs a new mirror too, but i’ll get to that when i get my next paycheck xD

TP ruby horizontal · Jan 24âââFeb 4, 2024 ð¸

Shared album · Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

My goodness! That's quite a project. It's going to be a fantastic piece of kit to use.
@Ian Grant is developing a theory that Thornton Pickard never made 2 cameras the same and this one looks different again to me.
A little gentle cleaning will make that mirror quite useable for a while - the gaps may eventually annoy you but it will work fine like that.
The fabric on those shutter blinds does not look the same as my original ones. The fabric looks thicker which may be why they are still in fair condition. I kept the the old ones somewhere - I'll check at the weekend.
I used 1/4" silk ribbon, stitched and glued onto the shutter blinds.
Your focus issues are puzzling. My lens opens to f/2.8. It's huge and bright and the depth of field is paper thin if I use it that way, but I never have trouble focussing. At f/8 it's less bright, of course, but still useable. Is your focussing cone intact right up to the narrow part for your eyes?