Real photographers don't use Program...

[Old-N-Feeble]

It's not a matter of whether photos are "real" or "not real". It's a matter of knowing one's equipment and precision use of it.

 

[Pioneer]

Some people seem to get off on making the absolute last decision about exposure, even to the point of not trusting an exposure meter. While others realise that for the majority of photos which don't require any careful consideration of the aperture or shutter speed, program just gets you the shot.

You are right of course. But it is certainly nice to be familiar enough with your equipment to know when it is likely that your meter might not be giving you the straight poop so that you can be prepared to make adjustments as required.

And of course there are those situations when you are not even slightly interested in a "correct" exposure but are trying for something else that you have visualized.

 

[OlyMan]

You are right of course. But it is certainly nice to be familiar enough with your equipment to know when it is likely that your meter might not be giving you the straight poop so that you can be prepared to make adjustments as required.

And of course there are those situations when you are not even slightly interested in a "correct" exposure but are trying for something else that you have visualized.

Oh absolutely. I guess I was really referring to those who scoff at program mode regardless. There are a thousand and one reasons why you might want to invoke more control.

I'm quite fond of how the program mode is implemented on the Olympus OM40 (PC) and OM2S Program. As a bi-product of how primitively the Program feature was implemented on these fundamentally 'pre-program era' cameras, you can still use the aperture ring on the lens to restrict the available aperture range. This allows you to control the DOF or force the camera to use faster shutter speeds to freeze moving subjects. On later cameras the equivalent of this flexibility would be multiple program modes such as landscape, close up, and sport.

 

[removed account4]

Real Photographers use their cameras in manual completely guessing the exposure and getting one out of 15 right.

sunny 11 is really not that hard to figure out
they have a pictogram on every box of 35mm film
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pz3gz_imd...VQ/QRT6FeYbhaU/s1600/Koday+Exposure+Guide.jpg
someone just needs to pay attention to the light, or lack of it
i haven't used a meter probably in 12 years

 

[RalphLambrecht]

as is using a built in meter ...
shhhh !



who cares what mode someone puts their camera in
fully automatic .. great !
fully manual ... great !
something in between ... great !

the thing that matters is that the person with the camera
is having a good time. if they don't want to follow someone else's
conventions ... great ! most people who make over-arching
declarations of what somene is or isn't have to take a step back and
re-examine what the point is of using a camera and maybe making prints ( or not ) ..
and if real photographers are in some sort of "club of real photographers"
its a club i probably would not really want to be in .. seeing i probably don't
use the right type of camera, film, settings, developer, stance, tripod, film changing tent
darkroom gear, paper, enlarger and everything else the tribe claims one needs.

I have to disagree, fun is overrated these days; not everything has to be fun; this sends the wrong message to the younger generations; hard works fun too when rewarded with success.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Program is only Auto, it chooses you can over-ride easily with most cameras.

I wish my LF cameras had Program

Ian

I wish mine had auto-focus and program mode.

 

[Ste_S]

Real Photographers use their cameras in manual completely guessing the exposure and getting one out of 15 right.

And because the latitude on film is so forgiving, it doesn't really matter anyway

 

[removed account4]

I have to disagree, fun is overrated these days; not everything has to be fun; this sends the wrong message to the younger generations; hard works fun too when rewarded with success.

naaaah ...
i can see where you are coming from, you might as well do something right
and learn how to do it well or whats the point but from where i sit ( or stand by my darkroom sink )
no point of doing film photography as a hobby if you aren't having fun.
its expensive, and time consuming, and everyone with a camera is a photographer&critic with a POV.
too many people in this world are
involved with the perfection and hard work, chasing magic bullets&c. >>> perfection doesn't exist.
sure someone can commit to hard work if they want and i agree there is nothing like
pulling a print out of the wash that came out the way you wanted ...
but if they are't having a good time there really is no point at all ...
someone should be able to do whatever the he11 they want on whatever camera setting they want
with whatever camera / film they want and if they are having a good time great! if not, change one's methodology to have a good time ...
people don't need someone claiming they are all wrong, are clueless wasting their time and efforts ... and btw they are a poser cause they use the "wrong" kind of camera.
life's too short, who cares .. buy film, buy paper+have fun.

 

[Paul Howell]

And because the latitude on film is so forgiving, it doesn't really matter anyway

Shot any slide film lately, for that matter Extar(sp?) 100? One of the reasons pro love the matrix 3 D meter on the F5 and F6 is how good it is with slide film.

 

[removed account4]

Shot any slide film lately, for that matter Extar(sp?) 100? One of the reasons pro love the matrix 3 D meter on the F5 and F6 is how good it is with slide film.

i've shot rolls and rolls of slide film sunny 11, it works well with any sort of film you might have ...
the only thing it won't do is give you sunshine on a dreary day, you still have to adjust your speed and fstop
i've also shot hundreds of paper negatives and glass plates using sunny 11, they sometimes have the same short ex lat. as slide film. works well .. but in addition to light, you need to know your materials' iso/din/asa &c

 

[Alan Gales]

naaaah ...
i can see where you are coming from, you might as well do something right
and learn how to do it well or whats the point but from where i sit ( or stand by my darkroom sink )
no point of doing film photography as a hobby if you aren't having fun.
its expensive, and time consuming, and everyone with a camera is a photographer&critic with a POV.
too many people in this world are
involved with the perfection and hard work, chasing magic bullets&c. >>> perfection doesn't exist.
sure someone can commit to hard work if they want and i agree there is nothing like
pulling a print out of the wash that came out the way you wanted ...
but if they are't having a good time there really is no point at all ...
someone should be able to do whatever the he11 they want on whatever camera setting they want
with whatever camera / film they want and if they are having a good time great! if not, change one's methodology to have a good time ...
people don't need someone claiming they are all wrong, are clueless wasting their time and efforts ... and btw they are a poser cause they use the "wrong" kind of camera.
life's too short, who cares .. buy film, buy paper+have fun.

Sorry to disagree with you my friend but I'm perfect.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Another program feature is the backlit mode and the fill in flash mode. Both are great when one must catch the moment.

 

[RichardJack]

Real photographers don't use 35mm film other than photojournalists before digital.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

If one knows his/her materials and equipment then 'thinking' (adjusting) is second nature... nearly instantaneous... instantaneous enough for anything I've ever shot.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

Sloppy... or not sloppy use of tools/materials.....

 

[Craig75]

i've shot rolls and rolls of slide film sunny 11, it works well with any sort of film you might have ...
the only thing it won't do is give you sunshine on a dreary day, you still have to adjust your speed and fstop
i've also shot hundreds of paper negatives and glass plates using sunny 11, they sometimes have the same short ex lat. as slide film. works well .. but in addition to light, you need to know your materials' iso/din/asa &c

This. In a hell of a lot of situations the instructions on the back of an old kodak film box will get you at most within a stop of a meter and the rest of situations you can pick up as you go along in my experience. Those situations are most likely going to trip up a camera with a centreweighted meter in program mode too and cause the user to make an exposure compensation to prevent underexposure. However you only know through experience when meter will be fooled and when to compensate for that. Makes no odds either way

 

[Chan Tran]

I have to disagree, fun is overrated these days; not everything has to be fun; this sends the wrong message to the younger generations; hard works fun too when rewarded with success.

I take pictures for fun. Take away my fun then I won't take any pictures.

 

[Helinophoto]

I started out using "P" (IE a point and shoot, with only fully automatic).
With dslr's I moved on to Av and Tv (aperture and shutter pri), before ending on M and spot-metering (if I had it on that camera).

The past few rolls, I've tried to shoot in Av (aperture pri) more and use partial and matrix metering on the camera, to see what it does and how many shots that get pooped because of miscalculations in camera.

Thing is, I mainly only trust my partial/matrix/center-weighted meter on evenly lit scenes....when things get complicated, you better know how your camera actually operates and thinks and then compensate for it, but then you might as well just shoot in M, since you are already overruling the camera anyway.

IMO....

I never use "P", since I want to control the aperture, always, that's just how i roll

It's very relaxing to shoot in Av, I admit, but for back-lit situations and night-scenes, no way, I can see with my own eyes that the camera can't handle that on it's own.

And even though you have latitude with film, underexposure is the devil, back-lit = usually underexposed and wrongly exposed night scenes in the city on high iso can be culled for sure.

If I have the choice, I use "M", even with digital. It's comforting to know that the camera will not be fooled by a bright cloud during an airshow for example.

For city snaps during daytime with more or less even light or not so difficult scenes, Av is cool and the camera most often nails the exposure problem-free.

 

[Alan Gales]

Real photographers don't use 35mm film other than photojournalists before digital.

You forgot to add fashion and sports photographers to photojournalists. David Bailey was one of the first fashion photographers to shoot 35mm in swinging London back in the 60's.

 

[Alan Gales]

I mostly shot my Contax 139Q set on Aperture Preferred. I could adjust exposure up and down up to two stops with a switch when needed. The important thing is to know your meter and how it reads. My first program camera was a Contax 167MT. I couldn't use Program mode though because my earlier Zeiss lenses lacked the electrical contact. I never shot on Program mode until I bought a Nikon D200 digital camera. I tried it and quickly went back to Aperture Preferred. I guess old habits die hard. I shoot my large and medium format cameras fully manual since they have no automation.

I don't see anything wrong with using Program mode as long as you understand how it works and you get the results that you want. Do whatever works for you.

 

[Helios 1984]

I have to disagree, fun is overrated these days; not everything has to be fun; this sends the wrong message to the younger generations; hard works fun too when rewarded with success.

My gym sessions are no fun, I don't have fun while doing angled leg press, hip abductions or when I'm pedaling on the elliptical machine. The first session, you feel like you got hit by a train and your body scream "Aahhhh what did you do to me, it hurt!", your shoulders hurt, your chest hurt even more and you feel like there is fire in you legs. On the 2nd session, you're still in pain from the first one. On the 25th session, you injure your wrist. On the 75th, you injure your left knee. On the 100th, your low back seize up. After the 300th, it becomes a routine and on the 500th, little you know, you lost 130 pounds through sweat and pain. So yes, I agree with you, nothing worth having comes without some form of effort. (It doesn't have to always be desert crossing material tho)

Concerning photography, I suppose it depend on the reasons why one is doing it. It's a hobby for me, I find analogue photography quite enjoyable because it forces to me slow down, appreciate what I'm looking at and relax. I get my fun thru the thrill of the "Image hunt" but also from the anticipation between each roll I develop. I wouldn't say that I have fun while developing or scanning but, like the gym, the reward comes after the effort.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

naaaah ...
i can see where you are coming from, you might as well do something right
and learn how to do it well or whats the point but from where i sit ( or stand by my darkroom sink )
no point of doing film photography as a hobby if you aren't having fun.
its expensive, and time consuming, and everyone with a camera is a photographer&critic with a POV.
too many people in this world are
involved with the perfection and hard work, chasing magic bullets&c. >>> perfection doesn't exist.
sure someone can commit to hard work if they want and i agree there is nothing like
pulling a print out of the wash that came out the way you wanted ...
but if they are't having a good time there really is no point at all ...
someone should be able to do whatever the he11 they want on whatever camera setting they want
with whatever camera / film they want and if they are having a good time great! if not, change one's methodology to have a good time ...
people don't need someone claiming they are all wrong, are clueless wasting their time and efforts ... and btw they are a poser cause they use the "wrong" kind of camera.
life's too short, who cares .. buy film, buy paper+have fun.

I'm having fun striving at least for perfection.

 

[removed account4]

I'm having fun striving at least for perfection.

sounds like a great plan for you
but i wouldn't pose a " gotta strive for perfection" on
a someone ( or a kid ) who is just interested in having fun
and might not have (or at first be interested in ) such lofty goals.
i think you said you come from an engineering background
and you are a well known / published photographer/author
i would expect no less than perfection

 

[Dali]

Real photographers don't waste their time on forums. Instead they take pictures.

 

[Ces1um]

My cameas are either fully automatic or fully manual. I probably shoot full manual:full auto by 3:1. I enjoy shooting full manual more though because it feels like it's more of a process. I think I'd like large format for that very reason but I have no issues with fully automatic if it gets the shot. If it doesn't, it just means I chose the wrong tool for that particular job that particular time. My style of photography (my type of subjects) typically don't move quickly though (mostly landscapes and nature photos) so that's another reason I prefer fully manual. I imagine street shooters may have more of a use for full auto than I would.