Real photographers don't use Program...

[CMoore]

I remember, back in the late 1800's, on the Left Bank, all us painters would gather and make fun of all the Pussies with their cameras.
They were too lazy to learn how to paint, and probably had no talent or aptitude for "The Real Thing" anyway.

 

[DWThomas]

In few words, A-1's Program mode takes wrong decisions, at least in respect to what I consider a good photography practice, and these wrong decisions are taken in a range in which some intelligent help would be most welcomed. I later resold the A-1 for various reasons, and sometimes I miss it as it was a good camera. But what I have never, really *never* missed is its Program mode!

But the LED display in the viewfinder shows what it's picking, so one can always override it. Generally when I'm toward the bottom of that table I'm using another mode anyway. And besides, with the 50mm f/1.4 and "more youthful self" 1/30 was a an acceptable speed!

My actual point (if I had one) was that for a lot of "ordinary" work, Program mode is quite adequate, and one less thing to think about when playing tourist. I've pretty much gone to medium format film work, but for whatever reason, I've put a half dozen rolls of 400 Tmax through the A-1 this year -- and no, I did not use 'P' for the eclipse photos!

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

Dave, I understand your point, but a LED warning me that the artificial intelligence is failing exactly when I need it is not going to be of any help for me (and others). It doesn't simplify things, conversely it adds another "warning" to check and to consider. As already written, when light is abundant life is beautiful and both aperture and shutter priority would do everything fine without any need of a Program mode. It is when light is scarce that some artificial intelligence would help. But the A-1 Program mode doesn't do that: it chooses an unusable shutter/time couple and then warns you that your picture will be awful. Really, who needs that? I would be quicker by using aperture priority + my brain and take a (correct) decision myself, which was just what I did when I owned that camera.

 

[Chan Tran]

It's funny how this 7-years old thread has been revived without any apparent reason. Oh well, anyway.

Coincidentally, I also used to own a Canon A-1. Excepting the fact that it was only available in black and had some horrible plastic part here and there, it was a terrific camera, with manual, aperture priority, time priority, programmed, and stopped-down exposure meter. Wow. It's still one of the most complete ever made in this respect.

However, although I thought I had struck gold at first, I had to scale back my expectations very quickly. First I realised that shutter priority is a dangerous tool, as it drags you in dangerous zones when the light is low. It works well when light is abundant, but who really needs any artificial intelligence help when light is abundant? However, the Program mode was what really turned me off.

The way in which the Program mode was... well... "programmed" by Canon engineers is illustrated in the user's manual in form of a diagram, and with my highest surprise it was absolutely linear. For simplicity, these are the shutter/aperture couplings that it will provide with a f:1,4 lens under progressively decreasing light:

1/1000 f:16
1/500 f:11
1/250 f:8
1/125 f:5,6
1/60 f:4
1/30 f:2,8
1/15 f:2
1/8 f:1,4
1/4 f:1,4
1/2 f:1,4
.
.
.
and so on. All is quite reasonable from 1/1000th down to 1/125th. We could argue wether 1/60th at f:4 is a good choice or not, but let's say it's tolerable anyway. But, below that, and exactly when the light becomes hard to handle and one would really need a help, the Program mode makes a huge huge mess. Why should anyone want to take a picture at 1/30th f:2,8, which will be almost certainly blurred, when it could be taken it at 1/60th f:2, or even better at 1/125th f:1,4? I would *never*, under no circumstances, do that. And why should anyone want to take a 100% likely blurred picture at 1/15th f:2, when there's still room to try it at 1/30th f:1,4 and have some chance to get perhaps a decent, sharp picture with some luck?

In few words, A-1's Program mode takes wrong decisions, at least in respect to what I consider a good photography practice, and these wrong decisions are taken in a range in which some intelligent help would be most welcomed. I later resold the A-1 for various reasons, and sometimes I miss it as it was a good camera. But what I have never, really *never* missed is its Program mode!

But so far all cameras with program mode has it in a linear fashion. New cameras allow you to shift it to another combination for shutter speed/aperture but still not much has changed. And this is exactly while P is only for professional. If you don't know how it does it you may let it lead you astray

 

[TheRook]

I remember, back in the late 1800's, on the Left Bank, all us painters would gather and make fun of all the Pussies with their cameras.
They were too lazy to learn how to paint, and probably had no talent or aptitude for "The Real Thing" anyway.

You must have been a fairly young child at the time.

 

[DWThomas]

If you want real amusement about P mode, check the shutter speeds in the EXIFs from an iPhone. (1/1183 sec, 1/427 sec, 1/274 sec ... from recent use of my 6s.) That is all at f/2.2, presumably because there is no variable aperture. Arguably none of it matters, as the sqrt(2) stop sequences are not significant to a computer, but being used to 1/250, 1/500, ... it hits me as odd when I happen to see it.

 

[Pioneer]

My Pentax PZ1p allows me to adjust how the Program Mode works. I can set it for Normal (Linear), Action (shutter speed change is preferred), Depth of Field (aperture change is preferred) or MTF where the program defaults to the lens best MTF where that information is available in the lens. Likewise, when the Program Mode is faced with a combination that will not work it allows me to instantly change shutter or aperture without selecting another mode.

 

[faberryman]

My Pentax PZ1p allows me to adjust how the Program Mode works. I can set it for Normal (Linear), Action (shutter speed change is preferred), Depth of Field (aperture change is preferred) or MTF where the program defaults to the lens best MTF where that information is available in the lens. Likewise, when the Program Mode is faced with a combination that will not work it allows me to instantly change shutter or aperture without selecting another mode.

Sounds more complicated than just setting exposure manually.

 

[Pioneer]

Sounds more complicated than just setting exposure manually.

Actually it is very easy to do. Manual exposure is nice as well but there are times when I prefer using the Program Mode.

Of course I am probably not a real photographer. I feel real but that could be an illusion.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

I always shot completely manual. Manual ambient, mixed with manual flash, as adjusted by flash setting, distance, setting of a zoom lens (f-stop decreases)... always always always spot-on.

 

[Minoltafan2904]

Real Photographers use their cameras in manual completely guessing the exposure and getting one out of 15 right.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

Hmm... I got 15 out of 15 right... both ambient, and flash, and mixed light.

 

[Paul Howell]

With good lighting, mid day, I find that program mode works very well, in tricky light, side light, backlight, rapidly changing light I change to manual or shutter speed priority. In either case I think program mode is to some extent dependent on good the meter is. I remember getting a lot of grief when while still in college I got a Konica T, who needs shutter speed auto?

 

[Sirius Glass]

It makes some sort of sense if you change one word in the title:
"Real Photographers don't have to use Program ...."

I use the program -mode because, I believe P stands for professional! Also letting the camera handle the technical side give the photographer more opportunity to be creative. Being overly concerned with technical issues is a creativity killer.

+1

 

[Sirius Glass]

Isn't aperture priority a "program" mode?

More of a sliding scale switching aperture and shutter speed alternately, at least on mine.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

If one knows his/her equipment like the back of his/her hand then manual is more accurate.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If one knows his/her equipment like the back of his/her hand then manual is more accurate.

That may be so but when traveling with non photographers and shooting 35mm it is both convenient and accurate.

 

[Wallendo]

You can use manual program mode.

Use Tri-X, set aperture to f8, shutter to 1/125s, and focus at hyperfocal distance.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

P is for ... Program??
I thought it was P for Professional...
Jokes aside, I do use Program mode with Shift on the EOS 1N occasionally. Why not? I paid more than $4000 for the camera in 1994, so is somebody going to tell me I should not use or explore any of the marvellous modes and tricks the camera can do? GO ahead, do whatever you want with whatever the camera has, it's your choice, not that of the populists.

 

[Craig75]

My Pentax PZ1p allows me to adjust how the Program Mode works. I can set it for Normal (Linear), Action (shutter speed change is preferred), Depth of Field (aperture change is preferred) or MTF where the program defaults to the lens best MTF where that information is available in the lens. Likewise, when the Program Mode is faced with a combination that will not work it allows me to instantly change shutter or aperture without selecting another mode.

Thats clever. The times i had a camera with an auto function i had no idea if it preferred to lower shutter speed or open aperture. Being able to tell it which to do is nice function.

 

[blockend]

My Pentax PZ1p allows me to adjust how the Program Mode works.

Think the old Canon T70 had something of the sort, for wide and tele lenses. It's a while since I used it, so my memory may be shaky.

I used to be keen on aperture priority auto, but found myself overriding it often enough to prefer manual exposure. Also I tend to expose for the highlight, especially on D-cameras, and none seem to automate exposure in the way I want it. For point and shooting, Program mode is fine, but if the light levels are steady I take a reading and leave it until something changes,

 

[Sirius Glass]

There is no Program Mode on the Hasselblads nor the 4"'x5" cameras so those are always manual.

 

[OlyMan]

Some people seem to get off on making the absolute last decision about exposure, even to the point of not trusting an exposure meter. While others realise that for the majority of photos which don't require any careful consideration of the aperture or shutter speed, program just gets you the shot.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

I'm disappointed that program mode on cameras isn't more programmable. ...

Some offer more programmable control than others. For example, the Canon AE-1P has a simple program that adjusts shutter speed and aperture together linearly until either the "correct" exposure is reached or some limit is hit. The Leica R8 (and other R's from about the R5 onward) have a shiftable program where you basically tell it to keep the aperture wide open up to a selected shutter speed, after which both close down linearly (this lets you bias towards either a preference for larger apertures or faster speeds).

There is no Program Mode on the Hasselblads ...

Ah, but look at the 205FCC, where you have in addition to Manual, a Zone mode, Differential mode, Autobracket mode (an aperture priority mode), and a "Program" mode which really is a settings mode, not an exposure mode. True, none of these, except maybe Ab, are the type of "point and shoot" P mode offered on other cameras.

 

[mdarnton]

Are my photos shot on P not real, but the ones on other setting Real? What if I forget which setting was used--who gets to decide if I was being a real photographer?
If I keep it on P and my photos are good, or use M and the photos are bad, are the M photos better because they were shot Real?
When we see photos from someone we don't know, how do we know if they are Real or not?
Are digital photos set on M Real, or not, since everyone knows digital isn't Real photography anyway?
Why should I give a d@#$ about this question????