RA4: Red Mist

[koraks]

My experience with fluorescent tubes

Our experiences are complementary then I haven't tried it with tubes!

My only other thoughts are some weird chemical residue in the Nova purchased secondhand (though I cleaned, flushed, and dried it and used Steradent tablets in the tanks), hard UK water contamination (?), or all of the ADOX RA4 batches somehow causing this at the chemical level.

Hypothetically these are all concerns, but the paper or some kind of problem with mild fogging seems more likely. Assuming the RA4 developer was mixed correctly of course, but I imagine you verified this already.

 

[maxdorsogna]

Thanks all - the intense red fogging problem has been sorted at last! Somewhere between moving internal darkroom locations to the larger space and the new Fuji CA RA4 paper that Hell, maybe even a new enlarger lamp was necessary? Who knows but some great suggestions along the way.

Curiously, just to add insult to injury I was experiencing some Newton rings last night, which is bizarre given I'd invested in AN glass (top only) for my LPL Universal Neg Carrier.

Have used another C7700 with the AN glass in the past as well and have never run into this issue before. Is there any other optical phenomenon/condition that can cause this to occur even when *using* the LPL AN glass insert? Curiously it happened on one Portra 400 neg but not another from another roll. Although I did use some paper in the neg carrier to increase the distance the second time around. An intermittent issue perhaps. Humidity?

Anyone had experience using the LPL 6x7 glassless holder? Wasn't sure about my Makina 67's frame width being compatible with it given 6x7's micro variations within the standard but it sure would be nice to stop messing around with dust, AN glass that doesn't even work, and poorly made plastic border toggles...

Open to suggestions for DIY workarounds to stop Newton Rings from happening too if anyone's had success there, using 1mm cardboard pieces around neg, etc.?

 

[MattKing]

Anyone had experience using the LPL 6x7 glassless holder?

I have used one with black and white - it is well put together and easy to handle and seems to do an excellent job holding the negatives flat and in place.
Of course, other than gate size, how much can really go wrong with a reasonably well made glassless holder?
FWIW, the LPL 7700 I am using is relatively new to me. Most of my 6x7 work in the last few years was done with Omega D6 glassless holders. Before that I mostly used the glassless holder for my Beseler 67C enlarger.

 

[koraks]

AN glass (top only)

The problem is that some films, under certain conditions (humidity) can exhibit newton rings also on the emulsion side. That's probably what you got.

But the main thing is you got the original problem sorted - that's great! Such things can be very frustrating!

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks all - the intense red fogging problem has been sorted at last! Somewhere between moving internal darkroom locations to the larger space and the new Fuji CA RA4 paper that Hell, maybe even a new enlarger lamp was necessary? Who knows but some great suggestions along the way.

Curiously, just to add insult to injury I was experiencing some Newton rings last night, which is bizarre given I'd invested in AN glass (top only) for my LPL Universal Neg Carrier.

Have used another C7700 with the AN glass in the past as well and have never run into this issue before. Is there any other optical phenomenon/condition that can cause this to occur even when *using* the LPL AN glass insert? Curiously it happened on one Portra 400 neg but not another from another roll. Although I did use some paper in the neg carrier to increase the distance the second time around. An intermittent issue perhaps. Humidity?

Anyone had experience using the LPL 6x7 glassless holder? Wasn't sure about my Makina 67's frame width being compatible with it given 6x7's micro variations within the standard but it sure would be nice to stop messing around with dust, AN glass that doesn't even work, and poorly made plastic border toggles...

Open to suggestions for DIY workarounds to stop Newton Rings from happening too if anyone's had success there, using 1mm cardboard pieces around neg, etc.?

So from what you said the cause of the red mist was one of 3 things i.e. new Fuji paper, moving to a new larger darkroom space or new enlarger bulb but as all three happened at once you cannot be sure?

That's great but it's just a pity that presumably you remain on the horns of a dilemma which is that you have to decide if the source of cut sheets of Kodak Endura is to be trusted in future which is a pity. If I had to, I'd put my money on it being the cut sheets as the cause but its a hunch only

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[maxdorsogna]

Hi all - am back again and wish I had better news... Despite two weeks of decent, problem-free RA-4 prints from my Nova Quad/LPL C7700 colour darkroom set-up I am now having issues with mysterious yellow staining on the print margins. It seems to manifest in the same place on every print as a sort of 'ghost image' of yellow/darkened exposure.

I recently lost a print in the dev tank due to my old Nova clips losing their 'spring', where it remained stuck overnight until I was able to finally fish it out the next morning with the right tool. Could this have stained the tank?

I drained the dev tank itself and cleaned with a Steradent tablet and flushings of hot water but the problem persists, despite replenished chem. I'm still using an Adox 2-part kit so haven't had new chemistry to mix up and try.

Does this look like dev carry-over into blix? The Nova can be a messy beast so I've got some stop I can add in the 2nd both of the Quad but haven't needed to yet. I've tried other Kodak paper stock and it manifests there too. Strangely, it's appeared a piece of my Fuji paper came out perfectly clean white...

Hopefully, this is just a chemistry issue but any advice would be much appreciated. Maybe there's something simple I'm missing here.

Thanks,
Max

 

[maxdorsogna]

Geez, nothing? Anyone...

 

[pentaxuser]

Geez, nothing? Anyone...

I can't speak for others but I am unsure where this yellow staining is on the print margins. Can you mark the area(s). Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

If it's the darker band on the right hand side of the print,, then I'd say it looks like it should either be on the film, or it's a part of the paper that has somehow received a little exposure - enough to act as a preflash, but not enough to create densities in the whites.

 

[pentaxuser]

If it's the darker band on the right hand side of the print,, then I'd say it looks like it should either be on the film, or it's a part of the paper that has somehow received a little exposure - enough to act as a preflash, but not enough to create densities in the whites.

I had just assumed that this line which isn't so distinctive on the bed cover as on the edge of the pillow was a difference in the amount of natural light hitting that area. The skirting board on the bottom of the corner wall seems darker than the skirting board under the clothes but I had assumed this was again because of the shading in the room. The book's cover does not seemed to have lightened either.

What is the curved brownish curve in the corner in the same area as the lighter part to which I think you are referring?

I found this a confusing picture as I cannot work out if what I am seeing is a result of normal shadows or something in the print's paper

Can you help clear up what I think I see but in fact may not be there

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[maxdorsogna]

Hi all,

Appreciate those replies! Apologies if it wasn’t super clear - I’ve highlighted the area, I know the print is a tad underexposed but I left density there in order for the artefact to render visible and will re-share another image where this darkening is more pronounced. Koraks is right - it does resemble a pre-flash but this is new paper and an unexposed sheet exposed perfectly white as I mentioned.

It’s rather uniform too? Does that discount the possibility of light leaks in the darkroom either daylight or an appliance pilot light?

Hey

 

[MattKing]

It almost looks like the paper spent some time half in and half out of an envelope or paper safe.

 

[Andrew Patteson]

The new one you posted is puzzling because of the distinct line bottom right where the issue stops. You have a broad white border with some of it being affected and the very outside not affected. That seems like a key to tracking down where this is happening.

Are you using an easel that creates a narrow border, but then the edge of the negative carrier is what is creating the actual edge of the print image area? If so, you know your paper is being fogged while it sits in the easel.

 

[maxdorsogna]

The new one you posted is puzzling because of the distinct line bottom right where the issue stops. You have a broad white border with some of it being affected and the very outside not affected. That seems like a key to tracking down where this is happening.

Are you using an easel that creates a narrow border, but then the edge of the negative carrier is what is creating the actual edge of the print image area? If so, you know your paper is being fogged while it sits in the easel.

Yep, I am using a 11x14" 2 blade Kaiser easel that's not in the best shape so am currently relying on the neg carrier to create a soft-ish border as the one's blades are no longer true and resulting in uneven print borders. Could stray light be periodically hitting the paper whilst in the easel and causing this to occur? I'll check the area directly around the enlarger but possible reflections or anything else that could be causing this to occur.

I print using a Duka 50 (at '5' power) but have never had issues with this, and cyan fogging would be the result on the paper I imagine.

 

[Andrew Patteson]

Does the first one you posted show that same edge? It's hard to tell. There are still a lot of possibilities, but knowing it is happening while paper sits in easel helps you a lot. Light leaking from enlarger? Light from a timer? Light from your Fitbit? etc.

 

[koraks]

I print using a Duka 50 (at '5' power)

Try some prints without.
I'm quite certain your problem is due to light fogging. Btw, I'd place my bet on fogging during storage (not entirely opaque container), but during handling is also a possibility.

 

[maxdorsogna]

Thanks koraks and Andrew. Very helpful input - going to try and see if I can't get to the bottom of things later tonight.

The paper's been kept inside its original Fuji light-tight 8x10 box and as I mentioned initially, it happens irrespective of which brand of paper stock, and they're all stored firmly within double-black boxes.

If it could only occurring somewhere around the enlarger/easel area and isn't to do with storage then perhaps it's a light-leak or fog from another light source somewhere.

Weirdly I've printed with the safelight a lot and never had any issues - also, would the resulting fog from a sodium lamp not be registering cyan/greenish in colour due to RA-4's reversal?

 

[koraks]

If it could only occurring somewhere around the enlarger/easel area and isn't to do with storage then perhaps it's a light-leak or fog from another light source somewhere.

Yes, based on your information, this is indeed the place to look at first. Especially the print with the woman and the blue jar suggests it might be something that happens when the paper is already on the easel - assuming that the square fog boundaries in the lower right corner match the setting of the easel's blades at some stage in the handling process.

also, would the resulting fog from a sodium lamp not be registering cyan/greenish in colour due to RA-4's reversal?

Yes, you'd expect that - blueish, in any case. In the image with the woman, there's an area of fog in the bottom center that seems to be in the right color range for what you'd expect with sodium vapor light, although most of the fogging seems warmer. However, it's always slightly unpredictable how fog turns out because it's usually not filtered through typical Y/M filters and the colored base of C41 film. Hence, it sometimes comes out slightly differently from what you'd expect. However, it's unlikely to end up at the opposite end of the color wheel, so that would suggest your sodium lamp is not the most likely culprit and other stray light sources could be present. Beware in particular of status leds on equipment in the same room - something like a blue led on a computer etc. can wreak absolute havoc on color prints.

 

[Andrew Patteson]

After you (1) rule out the safelight, and (2) look carefully around your darkroom for other sources, if nothing turns up, I saw this tip from another Photrio member recently (sorry, would like to give an attribution but can't remember who):

With a sheet of paper in the easel, put a cap on the lens and turn on your enlarger lamp for a longish exposure. If there is any fogging on the paper you'll know it is due to a leak from the enlarger.