"Photography IS Film"

[markjwyatt]

Photography is used for many purposes. FB pictures of burgers and selfies are snapshots. If you do not like this, blame George Eastman. He put a camera in everyone's hands. The digital revolution has just made it easier and provided a channel to display the snaps- along with the works of art. You (Reginald) may be frustrated because the masses are not flocking to the powerful images. You see billions served on a McDonalds, not the Michelin 5 star gourmet restaurants.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Your idea of what denotes alternative process is restricted to film. I take alternative to mean anything except a negative positive print. A salt print viewed on a computer is a digital image. How can it be otherwise?

I'll tell you how. The term Alternative Process was determined when Film was the only, and therefore dominant, method in the craft. Everything else was alternative. No more. While film devotes may have a 70-year habit of referring to Alternative Process as not being the dominant method; film; that day is over. It will just take years for the film folk, and the general public, to accept that.

Few people think of Cell phone imaging as photography; its just fun, sa way of sharing thoughts, or a record. Hollywood, when they want to show photography, show a fashion shoot or a darkroom or moody BW prints. It has romantic resonance to the 50s and 60s in the lives of our population. So what else are they to think?

In 10-15 years the school catalogue will show all film-related processes as Alternative Processes. Why so long? To the general public photography still means film. I get this from my administrators. It took a while to realize this. Now I go into their offices with my FM2 and my Fujifilm X100T, ask them to take a shot, then ask them which one is in focus, properly exposed, or if the background is clean. You can see the lightbulb go on. I tell them, "not only is this why Pros use digital capture but it is a superior teaching instrument with its short learning loop." They get it; they just didn't know.

In our academic Pro program the Electives, our entry-level Beginning film class joins Intermediate Darkroom and Alternative processes, are now grouped as a special certificate. Get ready for film as an Alternative process.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Now wait a minute; let's not disparage the hamburger. That is off the table. [/QUOTE]

Sorry, this was a wry response to Reg:
"So yes, we're seeing lots of photographs, just like we're seeing more and more hamburgers, but the nutrition is suffering badly. Quantity is up, meaningfulness is down.""

You have to draw a line somewhere...

 

[faberryman]

But the point remains that on the whole, media is just being consumed in gargantuan quantities by the population, and in such an ocean of media, it's not going to be possible for qualitative attributes to become a meaningful aspect of the whole. "Over 4-Billion Served," was the laughable proud claim of a burger chain.

Kodak could have used the over 4 billion served motto as well. The difference now is that all those photographs (do they qualify as such?) were kept in a shoebox instead of splashed all over the web.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

That's because it's easier to buy a new camera or lens than take a good photo. Taking a great photo is extremely difficult on any camera, and rarely depends on the type or price of the gear.

A focus on gear is hardly new to shutterbugs through the ages.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

To be clear, I have nothing against gear talk and engage in it all the time. I'm just pointing out the loss of critical analysis of photography. i.e. web sites didn't help.

Critical analysis is still present but that is within our community. It always has been. In spite of how much we value what we do, how much we expand thought about it and rethink it for better imaging, we are hardly the driving force in imaging. Remember, it has been said by several in no little authority that in 2000 (when 1 billion rolls were consumed per year) 98% of that film was color negative, leaving 2% for BW & transparency. Now that 98% of users are broadcasting their shoebox of images, we are really seeing our place, being drowned, our relevance to society obliterated.

 

[BrianShaw]

Mike... I think we’re not only there (film as alternative photography) but have been there for a while... everywhere except APUG. I’m comfortable being a film dinosaur... and willing to admit to that identity.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Photography is something you can use to share what is meaningful. And meaningful is different for everybody.
Photography is rarely meaningful in itself.
Note that I said "rarely", not "never".

When we greet people we often say "how are you." The question is seldom taken literally or sounded to any depth. It is a courtesy, a sharing of a general concern; no need to seriously answer the question. It is communication at a different level. Not elegant, perhaps, but meaningful none-the-less. Waving nat people is the same; it doesn't demand that we stop and chat but the general goodwill is expressed.

Sociologist and Psychologists may have a deep understanding of such things and can work factors and ideas within that purview with elegance. That done a view of the general public communication experience can seem superficial and overwhelming.

Most of the mass-broadcast images suggested here are more akin to waving at someone than and 3-hour visit with a friend. No need to stop; just sharing a little thing.Yes, they are extremely limited and seldom elegant but they do express the general heartfelt disposition of humans to make a connection, to give us an existential meaning. And it is that portion of humanity that we, as visual communicators, try to tap into when we create.

In that context our challenge is to survive. Reg has much to say about this that is instructive. In the meantime, what can we do to pronounce our value in some meaningful way besides preaching to the choir? How can our music be hear amidst the cacophony? Or are we a vestige of the power of the visual to communicate. That has been buried under an overwhelming presence and dependance upon the written word for millennia. The power of visual communication has exploded back onto the scene the blathering is on full-force.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Mike... I think we’re not only there (film as alternative photography) but have been there for a while... everywhere except APUG. I’m comfortable being a film dinosaur... and willing to admit to that identity.

I cannot think of film users as dinosaurs. I just a cannot teach it to students as having a high-percentage successful route to a job. After that is is simply an aesthetic choice or some other modality of how it fits in one's life.

 

[ReginaldSMith]

Photography is something you can use to share what is meaningful. And meaningful is different for everybody.
Photography is rarely meaningful in itself.
Note that I said "rarely", not "never".
I think this thread is ironic, because it was started by the same poster as the thread celebrating the Instamatic.
Of course, ironic is fairly trendy.

Nothing ironic at all. Those Instamatics photos were saved into albums and shoeboxes and became real family histories. Far from consuming and moving on, those vernacular photos were treasured by families before the agree we are now in. I have family members who still drag them out the look at.

My collecting them is part of my study in how photography has changed.

 

[ReginaldSMith]

Kodak could have used the over 4 billion served motto as well. The difference now is that all those photographs (do they qualify as such?) were kept in a shoebox instead of splashed all over the web.

And because they are in a shoebox they had lasting value, and lasting meaning for their owners.

 

[ReginaldSMith]

When we greet people we often say "how are you." The question is seldom taken literally or sounded to any depth. It is a courtesy, a sharing of a general concern; no need to seriously answer the question. It is communication at a different level. Not elegant, perhaps, but meaningful none-the-less. Waving nat people is the same; it doesn't demand that we stop and chat but the general goodwill is expressed.

Sociologist and Psychologists may have a deep understanding of such things and can work factors and ideas within that purview with elegance. That done a view of the general public communication experience can seem superficial and overwhelming.

Most of the mass-broadcast images suggested here are more akin to waving at someone than and 3-hour visit with a friend. No need to stop; just sharing a little thing.Yes, they are extremely limited and seldom elegant but they do express the general heartfelt disposition of humans to make a connection, to give us an existential meaning. And it is that portion of humanity that we, as visual communicators, try to tap into when we create.

In that context our challenge is to survive. Reg has much to say about this that is instructive. In the meantime, what can we do to pronounce our value in some meaningful way besides preaching to the choir? How can our music be hear amidst the cacophony? Or are we a vestige of the power of the visual to communicate. That has been buried under an overwhelming presence and dependance upon the written word for millennia. The power of visual communication has exploded back onto the scene the blathering is on full-force.

A quick note on this excellent post. I will say more when I get back home.

 

[eddie]

And because they are in a shoebox they had lasting value, and lasting meaning for their owners.

The cloud is the new shoe box. In fact, an argument can be made that it is more valuable, as it can now be shared without physical presence. jtk is working on a project for his family which will be shared electronically. I assume those who'd like a physical print will be able to make one.

 

[eddie]

... what can we do to pronounce our value in some meaningful way besides preaching to the choir? How can our music be hear amidst the cacophony? Or are we a vestige of the power of the visual to communicate. That has been buried under an overwhelming presence and dependance upon the written word for millennia. The power of visual communication has exploded back onto the scene the blathering is on full-force.

The best way to "be heard amidst the cacophony" is to create images which the viewer will want to view for more than a few seconds. It's always been that way. Even the shoe box photos were mostly skimmed past.

 

[ReginaldSMith]

I’m seeing a rather anti-photography sentiment here. Unless photos are relevant etc in certain folks minds, then photography isn’t worthy. Weird and elitist attitude.

@BrianShaw

If you don't realize that your comments are character insults, and that your nonsensical dodge of "certain folks minds" isn't transparent, then I suggest you get some etiquette lessons as well. My "attitude" is neither "weird" or "elitist". Please learn how to formulate a rebuttal without resorting to such low-grade techniques of insulting others.

 

[BrianShaw]

@BrianShaw

If you don't realize that your comments are character insults, and that your nonsensical dodge of "certain folks minds" isn't transparent, then I suggest you get some etiquette lessons as well. My "attitude" is neither "weird" or "elitist". Please learn how to formulate a rebuttal without resorting to such low-grade techniques of insulting others.

Please feel free to ignore me, as I will you. Okay? But don’t you dare lecture me like your my mommy. Okay?

 

[ReginaldSMith]

The cloud is the new shoe box. In fact, an argument can be made that it is more valuable, as it can now be shared without physical presence. jtk is working on a project for his family which will be shared electronically. I assume those who'd like a physical print will be able to make one.

It seems metaphorically like a shoebox, but I think it's very weak. I think it's dubious whether such cloud collections are often passed on. I think the sensational experience of viewing cloud images on as screen would be considered a poorer experience than prints, and of course the ease of losing cloud images is ever present. Some individuals are certainly masters and experts at managing "IT resources" like photos in the cloud, but it's a skill quite a bit more complicated for many people compared to putting prints in a photo album. YMMV, of course.

 

[ReginaldSMith]

Please feel free to ignore me, as I will you. Okay? But don’t you dare lecture me like your my mommy. Okay?

Actually, when people call me weird and elitist, I choose not to ignore it. And, I won't ignore it in the future from you or anyone else.

 

[BrianShaw]

Actually, when people call me weird and elitist, I choose not to ignore it. And, I won't ignore it in the future from you or anyone else.

Get over it.

 

[ReginaldSMith]

Most of the mass-broadcast images suggested here are more akin to waving at someone than and 3-hour visit with a friend. No need to stop; just sharing a little thing.Yes, they are extremely limited and seldom elegant but they do express the general heartfelt disposition of humans to make a connection, to give us an existential meaning. And it is that portion of humanity that we, as visual communicators, try to tap into when we create.

.

At the risk of misinterpreting what you are saying, I think you mean that images have/are taking over from the written word. If that's what you meant, I agree completely. And that's what the economic engine wants to see. If a picture is worth a thousand words, you can grab more eyeballs quicker with images than with words. In FaceBook's world, they even short circuit the appreciation of images to "likes" or what? smilies, and so on. If we add up all the 3rd party image consumption from movies, video games, social media, TV, and web sites, and graphed it relative to the same kind of image consumption 50 years ago, I think this transition to drowning in visual media would be more clearly obvious. Image consumption way up, reading way down.

Note: I always recognize that the individual anecdotal experience is always the exception. There will, for example, be someone who has perfect control over cloud, has the images willed with the passwords in their will, and so on. My viewpoints about all this are GENERAL, not individual. I'm speaking of the mass trend, not any person's individual experiences.

 

[BrianShaw]

At the risk of misinterpreting what you are saying, I think you mean that images have/are taking over from the written word. If that's what you meant, I agree completely.

 

[faberryman]

Nothing ironic at all. Those Instamatics photos were saved into albums and shoeboxes and became real family histories. Far from consuming and moving on, those vernacular photos were treasured by families before the agree we are now in. I have family members who still drag them out the look at.

That is the romantic view. The truth is most of Aunt Betty's photos ended up in the landfill.

 

[BrianShaw]

That is the romantic view. The truth is most of Aunt Betty's photos ended up in the landfill.

That’s my experience. My wife and I recently cleared out her parents house. In one closet there were ten cartons of old pictures. We went through them all. About 8 cartons to the landfill. Two re awaiting further review. There were some real gems in there, but most...

Similar experience with furniture and other “stuff” except it was about 98% disposed and went to good use via donation programs.

I’m not looking forward to the future when we clear out my parents house.

 

[ReginaldSMith]

Some eyepopping statistics on media consumption (a few years old already).

https://www.zmescience.com/other/american-media-consumption-to-soar-in-2015/

 

[ReginaldSMith]

That is the romantic view. The truth is most of Aunt Betty's photos ended up in the landfill.

Counterpoint: Listen to news reporters report on natural disasters as they interview people. What's the most commonly named item that A) people grab before evacuating; B) miss the most when they see their homes destroyed.

Answer: Photographs.