mshchem
Subscriber
My shipment finally arrived. Looking forward to seeing how it comes out in my process
View attachment 403621
COMMITMENT!
My shipment finally arrived. Looking forward to seeing how it comes out in my process
View attachment 403621
COMMITMENT!
I'm fairly sure the Cedar Rapids and Iowa City doesn't have any dye coupler experts on staff, but you never know![]()
Yes, the railROAD staff may not be able to help me out, but maybe the railRED staff had an idea...
I mean i have this image in my mind where an ordinary street sign has an additional and smaller sign above saying: "If reds don`t render proper call 555-HARMAN-123" or something...
mshchem, you may not have been able to answer my question yet but from yours and other replies on this and another thread I will take it reds come out as orange so that the colour of the edges of the Yield sign was red
This seems like a major defect in terms of colour rendition and one that does not seem to be correctable but just an observation on my part
pentaxuser
I cannot understand how Harman could release an improved 2nd generation of Phoenix with such a glaring shortcoming, even with the understanding that the film is still a work in progress?
All things are relative. I think the relevant question is whether Phoenix II is a noticeable improvement over Phoenix I, and from what I gather the consensus is that it is a huge improvement, even if you can point to one specific issue that got worse.
- Dynamic range? --- Improved.
- Film speed? --- Improved.
- Scanning? --- Improved.
- Halation? --- Improved.
- Grain? --- Improved.
- Uniform color sensitivity? --- Improved.
- Overall color rendition? --- Improved.
- Huge of the color red? --- Worsened.
Seven steps forward, one step back.
I don't think it's unreasonable that they'd release a product like this.
That being said, the red ‘problem’ is going to be so noticeable, it is going to be difficult to ignore. It will make it very hard to use the film as anything approaching a ‘normal’ film. For example, bright orange apples? Orange roses that are supposed to be red?
I guess I expected, perhaps naively, that Phoenix Gen. II would have been somewhat more refined, or Harman would have waited just a little longer to release a film that could get reds somewhere in the ballpark.
To expand a bit on what I said earlier, here's how I see it. And I invite people with more in-depth knowledge such as@Lachlan Young, @laser and @Henning Serger to rectify my conjectures where they miss the mark.
We know for a fact that Harman is employing several people on their color development.
They have a whole set of challenges on their plates, of course - but hey, so does Ino/Filmotec.
So based on technical complexity, it's unlikely that either #2 or let alone #3 would be feasible in response to a single customer pestering Filmotec for a bit and waving a modest amount of cash in their general direction. Looking at things from that end, we could make some haphazard quantitative assumptions and see how the numbers would work out. Keep in mind we're not talking about Kodak and Fuji here, so production batch sizes will likely be a heck of a lot smaller. Let's say an initial market-oriented production batch would be, ah, wild guess, 50k rolls for this new Orwo 200 product. Let's also say that for the purpose of this incremental development of the product, around $0.50 per roll would be made available for R&D expenditure (which I think is rather on the very generous side). This would mean an R&D budget of $25k. You can't do all that much for that kind of money. Put a chemical engineer into a well-equipped lab and he'll burn through $1k/day easily in brut wages, cost of capital, materials etc. That means 20 days of work plus a little administrative overhead, and at that point nobody in the R&D chain has made any money off of the thing except 'Bernd the Dipl. Ing' who goes home with a decent but still modest salary. You can't do all that much in 20 days - maybe, if you're very lucky, #1. But only downhill with the wind in your back and looking at the end product with not too critical a QA focus. So also from that end, things don't really look in favor of "yes, dear customer, we will make you a properly masked film out of nowhere in little to no time at all."
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