Permanent marker for darkroom work

[Graham06]

Does anyone have a specific brand of marker they can recommend for darkroom work? I would like something that can write on the glossy emulsion, and make it through develop, stop, fix, or be able to write on a soggy, wet print. Best for me so far are Sharpie fine point pens or a big fat 6B graphite pencil.

 

[halfaman]

I have also the problem of writting on still wet color prints. So far I haven't found any pen capable of do it well, I just wait to the print be dry enough and leave the notes in a piece of paper next to the it.

 

[Mr Bill]

Hi, no specific marker to recommend. But... it's hard to beat the ID system commonly used by photo labs since as far back as I know. They're called twin-checks (or triples, even). These are adhesive labels that come in rolls, and have pairs of sequential numbers. They're designed to be impervious to processing solutions. In use, the photofinisher sticks one on the film (on the leader of 35mm film, for example) and one on the order sheet , or whatever. So the two are now linked by a common number.

If you have a local lab you might stop in and ask if you might purchase a few. Since most lab people are pretty cool folks they'll most likely just give you a foot or two. So, you write in a notebook as to what you are testing and attach one of the twin checks. The other, you stick on the back of the film or paper BEFORE it gets wet.

Another ID method, for a small number of prints, or whatever, is to use a hole punch (kinda like a pliers, but with a hole-punching apparatus). Change the number of holes for a sequence, or use some sort of coded sequence. A variation on this could be to make pinholes with a thumbtack (don't poke holes in your finger).

 

[koraks]

I have also the problem of writting on still wet color prints. So far I haven't found any pen capable of do it well, I just wait to the print be dry enough and leave the notes in a piece of paper next to the it.

I use a hairdryer to blast the area dry where I intend to write. Takes only a minute. However, having a pen/marker that would work well on the still wet emulsion would be even more convenient!

But... it's hard to beat the ID system commonly used by photo labs since as far back as I know. They're called twin-checks (or triples, even). These are adhesive labels that come in rolls, and have pairs of sequential numbers.

Those are really nice, but I'm also interested in note-taking options that allow taking quick note of filtration settings etc.

 

[Kino]

We used Koh-I-Noor professional grade technical pens with waterproof ink in the motion picture lab to label picture and soundtrack leaders.

Takes a bit of practice on scrap film to get the hang of it and the pens demand proper maintenance, but they worked well.

You might have to blot the area before writing...

The top grade pens are very expensive, but this set might do the job for you:

Koh-I-Noor RapidoSketch Pen Set​

 

[tezzasmall]

Check out astronaut pens and these two links:

Fisher Quad-Action Space Pen – WeatherWriter

www.weatherwriter.co.uk

10 Best Weatherproof Pens for Writing in Any Condition

Writing can be challenging when you are dealing with rain, snow, or other harsh conditions. That’s where weatherproof pens become […]

www.chaseday.com

Terry S

 

[gkoulomz]

Does anyone have a specific brand of marker they can recommend for darkroom work? I would like something that can write on the glossy emulsion, and make it through develop, stop, fix, or be able to write on a soggy, wet print. Best for me so far are Sharpie fine point pens or a big fat 6B graphite pencil.

I'm not a fan of sharpies since they do fade when exposed to light a lot- we used to use them on plastic to label plants, and after a season outdoors, the writing had completely faded. This may not be an issue for your if your prints are not in the light.
Back in the day whey I was doing a lot of darkroom work, I used ball point pens. The old fashioned kind, which seem to have an oil base. I used to write exposure data on the back of the sheet, and then process. It's all still legible 45 years later..... worked on RC and real paper. I did not write on the glossy side....

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

How about hole punches with unique holes to identify things differently? Like the train conductors use.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have not found a good product other than pencil to write notes on the back of a photograph and that is not so good.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I've been using the Space Pen for decades on the back of colour RA4 paper and any RC B&W paper with great results. I normally write on the rear of the prints when they are under the water in a holding tray with regard to RA4 paper. With B&W RC paper, I also write on the rear, but have written on the front a few times.

Fun fact, my Space Pens are a black ink cartridge, but when writing underwater, the image is black, but after going through my paper dryer, the ink colour is blue(ish).

 

[Graham06]

It's hard to beat the ID system commonly used by photo labs since as far back as I know. They're called twin-checks (or triples, even). These are adhesive labels that come in rolls, and have pairs of sequential numbers.

This is a great suggestion for some use cases. It might even be enough to make me form the habit of keeping a log book for all tests which is something I have been thinking about. I remember seeing these on negatives back from photo labs

Twin Checks 4 digit Polyester Green

Polyester twin checks with large black four digit numbers on top of a green stripe. 2,000 sets per roll.

imagingspectrum.com

 

[Graham06]

I have not found a good product other than pencil to write notes on the back of a photograph and that is not so good.

My girlfriend bought me one of these when we started dating. the lead is quite soft and the blunt point lets you write on soggy paper. It works but you can't write much. You get really soft pencils (like 6xb or more) Haven't tried one yet though.

Kaweco Sketch Up Clutch Pencil - The Pen Company ✒ Designer Pens, Pencils, Inks and more...

Kaweco's Sketch Up clutch pencil is an expertly-constructed metal pencil with an octagonal barrel available in brass, chrome, matt black and satin chr...

www.thepencompany.com

 

[Graham06]

I've been using the Space Pen for decades on the back of colour RA4 paper and any RC B&W paper with great results.

Thanks for the endorsement from personal experience. Has at least two votes on this thread so its top of my list so far

 

[Graham06]

How about hole punches with unique holes to identify things differently? Like the train conductors use.

What I have done multiple times is use some useless pen to scratch marks on test prints. I usually want to write at least a number.

 

[Graham06]

I'm not a fan of sharpies since they do fade when exposed to light a lot-

They also wipe right off a glossy surface as it makes its way through development, but if you carefully avoid its marks you can read it at the end.

 

[Graham06]

We used Koh-I-Noor professional grade technical pens with waterproof ink ... the pens demand proper maintenance, but they worked well.

I have some of these. I love the even lines. I am not sure if I would destroy a broadish one if I left it inked up indefinitely. I wouldn't want to clean a pen after every darkroom session. If I didn't, some times it would be weeks or more before I came back to it. They would work well in a pro lab that was used every day.

 

[cliveh]

I'm not sure if it is permanent, but a yellow or white Chinagraph pencil is used for marking contact prints.

 

[mpirie]

another vote for Chinagraph pencils.

Mike

 

[Chuck_P]

I have not found a good product other than pencil to write notes on the back of a photograph and that is not so good.

Ditto on the pencil. If I need to make a differentiating note or mark on the paper, I just do it on the back before the exposure for straight prints and work prints. I try to make it where I know the white border of the print is going to be.

 

[koraks]

Ditto on the pencil

Does that work at all on a soggy print?
Same for the Chinagraphs. Can't imagine them doing very well on a wet emulsion - or a wet fiber base for that matter.

 

[Graham06]

I'm not sure if it is permanent, but a yellow or white Chinagraph pencil is used for marking contact prints.

Don't know where the original poster's message went, but I think these are the US/EU version

Amazon.com

Just bought a mixed colour set to try (note that they also sell similar looking non-permanent pencils)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q1QVV6X

You can get the Australian version for 2 AUD. here's the link I still had open

Staedtler Chinagraph Red Pencil | John Barry Sales

John Barry stocks a huge range of Staedtler Markers & Pencils products including the STAEDTLER PERMANENT RED PENCIL . Click to view details and purchase.

secure.johnbarry.com.au

 

[Graham06]

Does that work at all on a soggy print?
Same for the Chinagraphs. Can't imagine them doing very well on a wet emulsion - or a wet fiber base for that matter.

A broad soft pencil does mark on wet paper, glossy side. I remember it not being all that good though.

 

[Graham06]

I have also the problem of writing on still wet color prints. So far I haven't found any pen capable of do it well, I just wait to the print be dry enough and leave the notes in a piece of paper next to the it.

An improvement to this is to use a log book that you use just for this purpose, and label your paper and log book with twin check labels ( link in this thread. ) Finding the best pen/marker you can will also help, so you can remember all the details before you forget (this part was the 6s test, this, was 10s, this development was 90s instead of the planned 2 min) Now when you come back a year later you can make prints from a roll where you previously discovered the look you like. That's my dream anyway.

Here is another promising looking pencil with no recommendations here yet.

JetPens.com - Uni Dermatograph Oil-Based Pencil - Black

The Mitsubishi Dermatograph pencils are like upscale versions of your typical grease pencil. Available in several bright colors, these soft colored pencils are perfect for writing on glass, metal, plastics, ceramic, vinyl, cellophane, and marks can be removed from any non-porous smooth surface...

www.jetpens.com

I bought this and some of the suggestions in this thread, and will post results once I have tried them

 

[snusmumriken]

Seems that many of us feel the need for this thing.

In theory, I write all the details on the back of each test strip or print, but I often forget and wish I could add them after the paper is already wet. And I wish I could write on the emulsion side, because it’s annoying if you’re comparing images and the details are on the other side.

Thinking along the ‘grease pencil’ line, has anyone experimented with cosmetics (lipstick, eyebrow pencil, etc.) for this purpose? This may be the first time I regret that my wife doesn’t use such stuff.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I just went into the darkroom and pulled out a recent test print. I knew that they gradations were 1/8 f/stops so I marked on the front of them, then I turned the print over and marked the rear of the print. I did this while the print was underwater, with the water at temperature of 24ºC, which is currently our tap water temperature.

I then took the print out and wiped it vigorously front and rear with with a squeegee, to emulate a worst case scenario. You will note that the colour of the ink is black under the water, but when dried (almost dry) on the seat on the verandah, the ink has changed to blue.

I rubbed and rubbed the squeegee over the front and rear of the print, where there was a blob of ink, it certainly streaked. However I know from decades of experience, if you let things dry, or put the paper though a paper dryer, which I have, then streaking is minimal to not being there.

This was done with a medium ball, black ink pen. Part number SPR4, which is manufactured in the USA.