Pentax: Two new compact film cameras planned - Pentax 17 announced June 2024

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MattKing

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The shutter priority mode in the AE-1 coincided with the heyday of Kodachrome 25 and Kodachrome 64, and was the perfect solution for those who had learned on slow films, and who were more vulnerable to blurred images due to camera shake than to shots that were lost to too little depth of field.
Switching from exclusively manual exposure to auto-exposure was more of a change than people with modern experience may realize.
I was selling cameras when the AE-1 was new, and most of my sales were to people who were used to manual exposure.
 

ant!

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Love this idea. I was thinking this and or bringing the Pentax 67 or 645 back into production.

The 645 line is even still active with it's digital version (with a slightly smaller sensor then actual 645), so many newer lenses are still available bought new (but of course much cheaper on the used market), and I imagine parts of the 645Z could be reused. On the other side, same story: A used 645n can be had for a few hundred dollars, the original 645 for less, a new one would cost quite a bit more and would do maybe not much more (maybe better/faster AF or exposure modes? lighter due to modern batteries instead of 6xAA?).
I guess for the 67 they would need to start more from scratch then 645, and would need to rely mostly on used lenses...

But also I see that the 35mm market is and always was bigger and cheaper then the one for medium format... On the other side: What film medium format cameras are still new available, beside some plastic Lomo and maybe some 3D printed things with roll film back? Is the Rolleiflex still made as it was a few years ago? So, while in 35mm there is the very low end and the high end (Leica) still existing but the mid missing, for medium format it might be even more so?
 

brian steinberger

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The 645 line is even still active with it's digital version (with a slightly smaller sensor then actual 645), so many newer lenses are still available bought new (but of course much cheaper on the used market), and I imagine parts of the 645Z could be reused. On the other side, same story: A used 645n can be had for a few hundred dollars, the original 645 for less, a new one would cost quite a bit more and would do maybe not much more (maybe better/faster AF or exposure modes? lighter due to modern batteries instead of 6xAA?).
I guess for the 67 they would need to start more from scratch then 645, and would need to rely mostly on used lenses...

But also I see that the 35mm market is and always was bigger and cheaper then the one for medium format... On the other side: What film medium format cameras are still new available, beside some plastic Lomo and maybe some 3D printed things with roll film back? Is the Rolleiflex still made as it was a few years ago? So, while in 35mm there is the very low end and the high end (Leica) still existing but the mid missing, for medium format it might be even more so?

Right. My fear of Pentax 645 systems at this point is repairability. If they released something new with warranty and service I’d be very interested and I’m sure a lot of others would be too
 

ant!

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Right. My fear of Pentax 645 systems at this point is repairability. If they released something new with warranty and service I’d be very interested and I’m sure a lot of others would be too
I guess it always depends what breaks. I had about 2 years ago a 645 repaired (Service Camera Pro in Quebec City), and it works fine since, same with my 645n. The repair guys who has a lot of experience with them didn't expect much problems with them, I guess in between a 645 and a end 70s 35mm SLR isn't that much technical difference (of course, the AF versions should be more complex). But this was still designed for professional use, wedding photographers and such, and in comparison gets very light use from me. And there are so many 645 and 645n around, in the worst case it should be possible to get another body (or body for parts) for a reasonable price. And in the very worst case: The lenses are still adaptable to the digital Pentax or mirrorless medium format, so it's not a lost case (of course I prefer them with film).
 

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So far my 645Nii is running smoothly. It is one of my most reliable cameras. I shoot about 10 rolls a year with it so hopefully it is getting enough exercise to stay that way.
 

bfilm

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Is the Rolleiflex still made as it was a few years ago?

The Rolleiflex TLR cameras have not been made for several years now.

I am not sure if DW Photo is still making the Hy6 mod2 SLR camera, or if perhaps they have some left.

DW Photo
 

Mackinaw

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The shutter priority mode in the AE-1 coincided with the heyday of Kodachrome 25 and Kodachrome 64, and was the perfect solution for those who had learned on slow films, and who were more vulnerable to blurred images due to camera shake than to shots that were lost to too little depth of field.
Switching from exclusively manual exposure to auto-exposure was more of a change than people with modern experience may realize.
I was selling cameras when the AE-1 was new, and most of my sales were to people who were used to manual exposure.

Konica also used shutter-speed preferred automation and ran a very effective ad campaign in the U.S. camera magazines mocking aperture-preferred cameras by calling their images the "perfectly exposed blur." I recall the ad made me laugh.

Jim B.
 

cmacd123

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remember also that the AE-1 and the AE-1 PROGRAM were both marketed as "profesional Grade" cameras the even a tennis player could use.
AE-1
or a Football Player

AE-1 Program or a baseball player
AE-1 Program
 
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eli griggs

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Konica also used shutter-speed preferred automation and ran a very effective ad campaign in the U.S. camera magazines mocking aperture-preferred cameras by calling their images the "perfectly exposed blur." I recall the ad made me laugh.

Jim B.

My first A Series Canon was a new AT-1, which was a very good shooter, for me.
 

mshchem

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I think the reason so many people are disappointed is that they're not (yet) the target market. Their focus is reaching new film users and growing that market first, and makes sense.

They can start with a relatively simple, straightforward, easy to use camera that's several notches above the current 'reusable disposable' 35mm plastic crud in usability and quality, but still cheap enough to be a reasonably spontaneous or gift-style purchase for the 'film interested' alongside the current crop of Instax and Polaroid cameras.

People bitch about zone focusing being lame or a cop out, but forget that so many well regarded cameras used it... Olympus Pen series, Trip 35, XA2-4, later Minolta Hi-Matics, etc. And let's not forget that many street and other photographers use zone/pre focus regardless in order to shoot fast and get the shot.

Adding rangefinders or AF adds complexity cost, and the market for a new film cameras drifts downwards sharply once the price drifts north of a few hundred. Remember there's still millions of functional cameras out there on the used market which any new 35mm camera has to compete with, and with a few notable exceptions, most are still dirt cheap compared to what they cost new.

Now, not everyone wants to play in the secondhand market, and are happy to pay some amount of premium for a new camera with a warranty and support. But let's say Pentax eventually produce a lovely all-manual, mostly-metal SLR or rangefinder for US$1000, which would be an absolute minimum price (it'd probably be a lot more). That's a whole lot better than what Leica will charge you for anything new, for sure. But for an SLR... I mean, for under half that you can get a very tidy F2 or FM... and the cost a good CLA too.

Pentax/Ricoh, to their credit, are playing this very cautiously. They realise they're playing in a very niche market, and need to produce cameras they can actually produce a competitive product in.

With that in mind, I don't see any point in producing a modern AF SLR at this point. They're a dime a dozen, cheap and unwanted due to the lack of nostalgic hipster appeal and unlike the earlier manual cameras of decades prior, many still work without the problems the older cameras are now developing.

Personally I'd nix that idea, and replace it a simple 6x7 rangefinder, maybe fixed MF lens and electronic leaf shutter (with manual and AE controls) to keep costs down. Plenty of people out there would like a Mamiya 7, but also maintain ownership of both their kidneys.

Well said. It's got to be mass market and Pentax will be praying it will develop an all new market. People who don't even know what film is. I bet 90% of Instax film is shot by people who don't have any concept of how it works.
 

eli griggs

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Well said. It's got to be mass market and Pentax will be praying it will develop an all new market. People who don't even know what film is. I bet 90% of Instax film is shot by people who don't have any concept of how it works.

I'm pretty sure that was true of Polaroid users then and now.
 

Agulliver

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I learned on a fully manual camera but went for aperture priority when I did get a semi-auto camera. But the caveat there was that I didn't use Kodachrome until years after that....so I wasn't really trying to shoot racing cars at 25ASA. The AE1 is a nice camera, but no more so than much of the competition at the time. I don't understand why it is so highly prized. Supply is fairly good as they sold loads of them....yet prices commanded are high because it's what all the young'uns want.

There is some truth in the young photographers wanting to try medium format. I've seen some trying out vintage gear like folding cameras but the full manual control is often a bit much. Probably a case of learning to walk before you can run....try manual focus first, then something with a limited range of shutter and aperture control....then fly on manual.

I am no good at teaching really but in recent years I did guide someone from a 120 box camera to an Agfa Isola and thence to a Zeiss-Ikon with full range of manual settings.

are Seagull still making TLR cameras? Lomography are beginning to make some slightly more serious gear.....is there any chance of the Lubitel coming back?

EDIT I see that Lomography do make the Lubitel 166+ so that's one option for a 400 dollarpound medium format TLR. If it's any good?
 

brbo

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EDIT I see that Lomography do make the Lubitel 166+ so that's one option for a 400 dollarpound medium format TLR. If it's any good?

Somebody here on Photrio commented that Lubitel 166+ is so good that it's sold out most of the time.

I find that hard to believe as that kind of money buys you a decent Rolleicord or basically any other non-Rolleiflex TLR, but I really don't know...
 

Agulliver

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I have an 80s Lubitell 166U and it's capable of *very* nice photos. Though it is very plasticky, that has the advantage that it's light.

Presumably the advantage of a new Lubitel 166+ would be that it comes with full warranty.....though 400 is a lot to spend on something that doesn't have the build quality of a Rollei. But it does mean that there is already a viable medium format camera on the market, at lest in 6x6 format.
 

pbromaghin

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There is some truth in the young photographers wanting to try medium format. I've seen some trying out vintage gear like folding cameras but the full manual control is often a bit much. Probably a case of learning to walk before you can run....try manual focus first, then something with a limited range of shutter and aperture control....then fly on manual.

There was a 20 year-old guy in my Jr College darkroom class last fall who was an art major concentrating in photography. He had done darkroom in high school and so was pretty advanced and wildly adventurous in the darkroom. He checked out the department's Mamiya C330 but never even took it out of the office after deciding during the familiarization process that fully manual was just too difficult.
 

Pioneer

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There was a 20 year-old guy in my Jr College darkroom class last fall who was an art major concentrating in photography. He had done darkroom in high school and so was pretty advanced and wildly adventurous in the darkroom. He checked out the department's Mamiya C330 but never even took it out of the office after deciding during the familiarization process that fully manual was just too difficult.

My grandchildren would bust out laughing at this. They have been shooting fully manual right alongside using their phones since before they were 10 years old.
 

pbromaghin

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My grandchildren would bust out laughing at this. They have been shooting fully manual right alongside using their phones since before they were 10 years old.

Dan - I was a bit perplexed by it. He did crazy stuff with flash real close to bare tree branches and complete black night behind, weird poses to make a human body look headless in a studio abstract, and turning on the darkroom lights to solarize prints. I gave him a brief tour of my C220, but he completely chickened out on the Mamiya.

It's great that your grandkids are so comfortable with it. My granddaughter is very artistic (drawing, clay, paint) and I tried to get her interested, but it just didn't catch. One of my grandnieces made a phenomenal pencil portrait of her grandmother (my sister) for her funeral and we talked a bit about film photography. Like many young people she was quite interested and thought it was way cool. I think she could be drawn to the dark slide, but I'm not sure how to go about it from several hundred miles away.
 
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Agulliver

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I learned on a 30s Zeiss-Ikon folder when I was little older than a toddler in the 70s. By the age of 5 I was taking it to school and photographing my friends. But I do suspect I am an outlier. It also might be more difficult for today's kids, as they've been born into a world of touch screens and voice activation. Twiddling knobs, turning rings and pressing buttons was how most of us grew up....with little automation too. Some of the principals involved in tuning a 70s radio could be applied to learning to use a camera.

I'm please to note that one of my friend's daughters, who is not yet 10, has decided she wants to take up film photography and has been given a Yashica rangefinder from the 60s.
 

ant!

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While I'm not 20 anymore, but (equal) far from 60: started out as the kid with a 90s full auto cheap point and shoot and later went on to a AF SLR, which I used in full auto and later scene modes (Minolta 505si super). Only in my end 20s I actually learned (quite fast) the exposure basics with a semi-automatic (Minolta XD7).

I think once you understand how aperture or shutter priority works, the step to manual is small. But still, I prefer aperture mode over full manual with external light meter or built in needle match, it's just faster and more convenient, and at least for the non-challenging stuff I do, and with my cameras, the semi-automatics work good enough...
 

Pioneer

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Dan - I was a bit perplexed by it. He did crazy stuff with flash real close to bare tree branches and complete black night behind, weird poses to make a human body look headless in a studio abstract, and turning on the darkroom lights to solarize prints. I gave him a brief tour of my C220, but he completely chickened out on the Mamiya.

It's great that your grandkids are so comfortable with it. My granddaughter is very artistic (drawing, clay, paint) and I tried to get her interested, but it just didn't catch. One of my grandnieces made a phenomenal pencil portrait of her grandmother (my sister) for her funeral and we talked a bit about film photography. Like many young people she was quite interested and thought it was way cool. I think she could be drawn to the dark slide, but I'm not sure how to go about it from several hundred miles away.
They are all more inclined to use digital now that they are adults, primarily because of the issue around developing and printing. But even with digital cameras they use manual settings as easily as programmed ones. But every single one will try their best to get in the darkroom with me if they are around the house when I am printing.

I love having them around but I often have to go back and print a few things another time around after they have left because they will sometimes take over. One of my granddaughters is very particular about how she thinks prints should look and she doesn't always agree with how Grandpa does it. :D

The darkroom is really what grabbed every one of them. They couldn't wait to see what their pictures looked like when they were printed. Grandma would think their pictures were the greatest thing she had ever seen. We have had some pretty weird things posted on the big bulletin board in the office sometimes. I can say that I spent a TON of money on Dektol and paper, and a few broken trays and tanks, for about 20 years when they were learning to print. The FedEx and UPS guys knew exactly where my house was. And everyone of them are much better printers than I will ever be.

And as for the crazy abstracts and compositions, I have seen all kinds of things. My youngest grandson is the one I am sometimes most jealous of. He has really gotten into street photography and taking pictures of people on the street or in the store. It doesn't seem to bother him a bit to walk up to someone and ask if he can take their picture. He "borrowed" my Pentax Q and carries it all over the place with him. That poor camera has seen more use than I would have believed it could live through. He is the one that is most interested in this new film camera from Pentax and he loves the idea that it is half frame. I am pretty sure that if I buy one of them I'll have to buy at least two of them because one will almost certainly grow legs and walk off. :D

I really think that Lomography has the right idea. If you want kids to start enjoying photography you have to let them play. Start them early and then get out of their way. Keep an eye on them, you don't want them to drink the developer anymore than you want them to eat the sand in the sandbox, but kids think differently than adults. Most of them will need to explore and find out what looks good to them and what doesn't.
 

MattKing

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