Overhauling Kodak Panoram
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By the way, that nice looking Panoram, apparently a No. 1 Original model, advertised as a 1D, sold for $183 last night. Like I mentioned earlier, in this current economic malaise the prices that Panorams are commanding on FleaBay has been swinging wildly between too little and too much. A reasonable price for a nice (not mint) Panoram No. 1 should be between $200 - $250.
There are often some real dogs sold on FleaBay, so one has to watch closely, and ask questions. One example, not a Panoram but rather an Al Vista panoramic, is a very obvious junker that is worth about $30 - $40 as a parts camera, but the seller wants a BIN of almost $200 (a reasonable price for a good one) for it. So far he has relisted it a couple of times, but nobody has bought it. Caveat emptor!
There are often some real dogs sold on FleaBay, so one has to watch closely, and ask questions. One example, not a Panoram but rather an Al Vista panoramic, is a very obvious junker that is worth about $30 - $40 as a parts camera, but the seller wants a BIN of almost $200 (a reasonable price for a good one) for it. So far he has relisted it a couple of times, but nobody has bought it. Caveat emptor!
I think that some people get greedy. I will gladly pay the price for something that is worth what I feel it is worth to me. I won't pay an exorbitant price for a piece of junk which would be rejected by my trash can. Some of that stuff is really miserable. I have been looking for a usable Panoram, but I'm also looking for a decent 4x5 Graflex and/or Speed Graphic. They are out there, and hopefully there will be a few left when I'm able to fix this hemorrhage in my pocketbook.
Smiff, you need to post some of your work with the #1.
The al vista on the auction site looks like a 3B, which took 3.5" x 9" photos on #101 film. The al vistas are fun cameras to use but tend to be beat up, as they weren't all that well made. Birch (or something like it) plywood, which tends to delaminate with age, is the base for the camera. That camera could be made usable probably, but would require a lot of restoration and is way over priced for that. I've had to re glue and clamp the laminations together on a bunch of cameras, and have replaced the bellows on a few as well. It's all doable with time but takes some figuring out too. I have information on my web site on al vistas if anyone has an interest in them
Michael:
I am still pretty much hung up on film and haven't yet learned how to do digital stuff like putting pictures online.
I did take some 35mm pix to Wal Mart and using their scanner kiosk, load them onto a CD. I then put 6 of them on Flickr, BUT, I don't remember how I did it, nor do I have a clue how to go back on Flickr even to find and view them.
I am in the Minolta Manual Focus, Kodak Brownie, and Folder Camera groups and have tried to learn how to put pictures off of the CD onto those groups' mini galleries which accompany each forum, but so far have not understood the instructions that I have received, so I just gave up.
Jamie:
I think I prefer my Panorams to the Al Vista, even if that one on FleaBay was in nice operating condition. Since the Panorams use cheap 120 film, giving a nice 2 1/4" x 7" negative, shoot pix with the lens swing in both directions (no capping the lens to cock the camera), and are very sturdy, they meet my needs.
Right now, I'm just waiting for the time when Spring shall have sprung so I can go outside to burn up some innocent film . . . when it's cold I just stay in my cave and hibernate!!
Smiff
I am still pretty much hung up on film and haven't yet learned how to do digital stuff like putting pictures online.
I did take some 35mm pix to Wal Mart and using their scanner kiosk, load them onto a CD. I then put 6 of them on Flickr, BUT, I don't remember how I did it, nor do I have a clue how to go back on Flickr even to find and view them.
I am in the Minolta Manual Focus, Kodak Brownie, and Folder Camera groups and have tried to learn how to put pictures off of the CD onto those groups' mini galleries which accompany each forum, but so far have not understood the instructions that I have received, so I just gave up.
Jamie:
I think I prefer my Panorams to the Al Vista, even if that one on FleaBay was in nice operating condition. Since the Panorams use cheap 120 film, giving a nice 2 1/4" x 7" negative, shoot pix with the lens swing in both directions (no capping the lens to cock the camera), and are very sturdy, they meet my needs.
Right now, I'm just waiting for the time when Spring shall have sprung so I can go outside to burn up some innocent film . . . when it's cold I just stay in my cave and hibernate!!
Smiff
they are much harder to find than a panoram, but the baby al vista takes 120, and can be a good easy user
http://jamieyoungphoto.com/alvista baby 1.html
http://jamieyoungphoto.com/alvista baby 1.html
They are few and far between, but most baby al-vistas are basket cases. I have seen very few usable ones. 
One of mine needed a new bellows, but it wasn't too hard to do. That's the biggest problem with them.
That black velvet split pigskin (Tandy #9120) is great for the bellows on any of those swing-lens cameras. It is very soft and supple and has a smooth textured leather on one side (like the outer surface of the Panoram bellows) and a flat black velvet on the other side. There are occasional pinholes from the pores or hair folicles in it, but a tiny bit of black latex paint, liquid rubber, etc. on the very tip of a round toothpick or sewing needle will permanently fix those.
Oh, about those Al Vistas. Since for about the same price I can get a good Panoram, a sturdier camera which takes pictures with the lens swinging both ways, so I don't have to cap the lens and pull it back to cock the camera.
But, on the other hand the Baby Al Vista did offer more "shutter speeds" than the Kodak Panoram, with 4 spring tension settings on the No. 1 Baby, and even more accurate settings on the no 2 with different sizes of fan blades that used wind resistance to act as governors.
Unfortunately, when Conley bought out Multiscope and their Al Vista cameras, they improved on the sturdiness of the camera body, but produced only cameras using the larger size film and dropped the Baby Al Vista that used 120 film.
But, on the other hand the Baby Al Vista did offer more "shutter speeds" than the Kodak Panoram, with 4 spring tension settings on the No. 1 Baby, and even more accurate settings on the no 2 with different sizes of fan blades that used wind resistance to act as governors.
Unfortunately, when Conley bought out Multiscope and their Al Vista cameras, they improved on the sturdiness of the camera body, but produced only cameras using the larger size film and dropped the Baby Al Vista that used 120 film.
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Of those that have taken their Kodak Panoram No.1s apart and renovated/fixed them...Can any of you help me:confused:??
I have a Panoram No.1 that swings the lens ok, but the shutter release(49) is not engaging and holding the swinging arm(45), so basically as soon as the tension in the swing mechanism is enough to get past the light baffle between the rear of the lens and the film box, it swings. The patent doesn't give any clues how the shutter arm 48 (the end of which slots into a hole 47 in the swinging arm 45 and stops it from swinging until shutter button 49 is depressed, pushing shutter arm 48 down, out of hole 47 and letting lens 45 arm swing ) is tensioned into the swinging arm hole 47. Is it just the flexibility of the metal shutter arm itself? I can move the shutter arm up and down but it never seems to home/locate into the hole in the swing arm of the lens (without taking the camera apart I can't actually see 45 where 47 is located - its all very dark in there!) The only thing I have noticed is that the shutter button 49 isn't held in the shutter arm and therefore the shutter arm has moved a few millimeters towards the the lens pivot. Could this stop it engaging in the hole in the swing arm. If i loosen the screw holding the shutter arm could I slide it back afew milimeters to this fix the problem (or is the screw held in ahole with no give/leeway)
I can move the shutter arm 48 up and down (up is a little worrying as I would have thought it could only go up when the swing arm hole was in the correct place. Could it be the swing arm is too high for the shutter arm to engage, if so is it easy to adjust the height of the swing arm, and if so, how? The nut at the bottom of the lens pivot 26 is right at the bottom of the thread, whereas on my No.4 which works perfectly it is slightly up the thread, so if this nut lowers the swing arm that might then allow the shutter arm to engage in the hole 47? Otherwise could it be possible that the shutter arm 48 has got out of line with the line of the holes 47 (shown as line between 10 and 10 on Fig 4). I can't see how this could happen given the arm 48 is held by two screws)
So far I haven't had to take apart the camera, and am hoping i can make these adjustments that will correct the problem without major camera surgery, just keyhole fidling and adjustment. If I can't is it easy to take apart a few panels of the camera to access the top of the swing mechanism (as shown in figs 3 and 4)
Any help would be very gratefully recieved
!.
Regards
Stuart
Ive included numbers from the 693583 patent to try and help explain what I'm asking.
I have a Panoram No.1 that swings the lens ok, but the shutter release(49) is not engaging and holding the swinging arm(45), so basically as soon as the tension in the swing mechanism is enough to get past the light baffle between the rear of the lens and the film box, it swings. The patent doesn't give any clues how the shutter arm 48 (the end of which slots into a hole 47 in the swinging arm 45 and stops it from swinging until shutter button 49 is depressed, pushing shutter arm 48 down, out of hole 47 and letting lens 45 arm swing ) is tensioned into the swinging arm hole 47. Is it just the flexibility of the metal shutter arm itself? I can move the shutter arm up and down but it never seems to home/locate into the hole in the swing arm of the lens (without taking the camera apart I can't actually see 45 where 47 is located - its all very dark in there!) The only thing I have noticed is that the shutter button 49 isn't held in the shutter arm and therefore the shutter arm has moved a few millimeters towards the the lens pivot. Could this stop it engaging in the hole in the swing arm. If i loosen the screw holding the shutter arm could I slide it back afew milimeters to this fix the problem (or is the screw held in ahole with no give/leeway)
I can move the shutter arm 48 up and down (up is a little worrying as I would have thought it could only go up when the swing arm hole was in the correct place. Could it be the swing arm is too high for the shutter arm to engage, if so is it easy to adjust the height of the swing arm, and if so, how? The nut at the bottom of the lens pivot 26 is right at the bottom of the thread, whereas on my No.4 which works perfectly it is slightly up the thread, so if this nut lowers the swing arm that might then allow the shutter arm to engage in the hole 47? Otherwise could it be possible that the shutter arm 48 has got out of line with the line of the holes 47 (shown as line between 10 and 10 on Fig 4). I can't see how this could happen given the arm 48 is held by two screws)
So far I haven't had to take apart the camera, and am hoping i can make these adjustments that will correct the problem without major camera surgery, just keyhole fidling and adjustment. If I can't is it easy to take apart a few panels of the camera to access the top of the swing mechanism (as shown in figs 3 and 4)
Any help would be very gratefully recieved
!.Regards
Stuart
Ive included numbers from the 693583 patent to try and help explain what I'm asking.
Stuart:
That arm #48 could possibly be out of line because although, as you noted, it has 2 screws, only the outer screw (the right screw in Fig. 6) holds it in place. The inner screw (not numbered) shown just to the right of the U-shaped spring-latch (#61 in Fig. 6) goes through a rather large hole in the arm #48.and is there for the purpose of controlling how far the arm can be pressed downward by the shutter button #49. Because of the large hole the arm #48 could possibly swing far enough one way or the other so that the small bent-down tab on the end of arm #48 doesn't properly line up with either of the holes #47 and therefore does not hold the swinging lens in place while the shutter is being cocked.
I have a beater 4C where the end of the arm #48 that is bent downward into a tab to engage the holes #47 but is bent from a small projection on the side of the arm so that it runs parallel to line #10 - #10 (in Fig. 4) rather than perpendicular to line #10 - #10 (as shown just above shaft #26 in Fig. 10). On my 4C that tab is worn and rounded so that it does not hold the lens even though it is properly seated in one of the holes #47. That could be your problem if the tab on arm #47 fits into the hole properly but pulls out it and releases the swing lens as soon as you start to cock the camera.
You might be able to fix the problem easily if the arm #48 is just not lining up properly with the holes #47 . . . that you can see by using a flashlight and looking inside to see if the Arm #48 is lying flat against the D-shaped plate #31. If it is standing away from the plate #31, then the tab has not seaten in one of the holes #47. In such a case, you might use a small dental probe to move the arm toward the front and rear of the camera to see if the tab drops into a hole #47 and the arm flattens against the plate #31.
If the arm #47 is flat against plate #31, indicating that the tab is seated in one of the holes #47, but will not hold the lens in place while cocking the camera, then either the tab or hole #47 (or both) is worn and rounded allowing the tab to slip out of the hole when any cocking tension is applied. In such a case you would have to disassemble the camera and file the tab and or holes to remove the rounded surface if only a small amout of filing is needed. If badly worn, you might even need to grind off the old worn tab, superglue or epoxy a small flat piece of metal to the end of the arm #48, bend it down, and with a Dremel Tool grind and shape a new tab. A pain in the but to do, but not too difficult a job . . . it is what I will need to do to my 4C.
I know this is a rather long message, but hope it is of some help to you.
EuGene
That arm #48 could possibly be out of line because although, as you noted, it has 2 screws, only the outer screw (the right screw in Fig. 6) holds it in place. The inner screw (not numbered) shown just to the right of the U-shaped spring-latch (#61 in Fig. 6) goes through a rather large hole in the arm #48.and is there for the purpose of controlling how far the arm can be pressed downward by the shutter button #49. Because of the large hole the arm #48 could possibly swing far enough one way or the other so that the small bent-down tab on the end of arm #48 doesn't properly line up with either of the holes #47 and therefore does not hold the swinging lens in place while the shutter is being cocked.
I have a beater 4C where the end of the arm #48 that is bent downward into a tab to engage the holes #47 but is bent from a small projection on the side of the arm so that it runs parallel to line #10 - #10 (in Fig. 4) rather than perpendicular to line #10 - #10 (as shown just above shaft #26 in Fig. 10). On my 4C that tab is worn and rounded so that it does not hold the lens even though it is properly seated in one of the holes #47. That could be your problem if the tab on arm #47 fits into the hole properly but pulls out it and releases the swing lens as soon as you start to cock the camera.
You might be able to fix the problem easily if the arm #48 is just not lining up properly with the holes #47 . . . that you can see by using a flashlight and looking inside to see if the Arm #48 is lying flat against the D-shaped plate #31. If it is standing away from the plate #31, then the tab has not seaten in one of the holes #47. In such a case, you might use a small dental probe to move the arm toward the front and rear of the camera to see if the tab drops into a hole #47 and the arm flattens against the plate #31.
If the arm #47 is flat against plate #31, indicating that the tab is seated in one of the holes #47, but will not hold the lens in place while cocking the camera, then either the tab or hole #47 (or both) is worn and rounded allowing the tab to slip out of the hole when any cocking tension is applied. In such a case you would have to disassemble the camera and file the tab and or holes to remove the rounded surface if only a small amout of filing is needed. If badly worn, you might even need to grind off the old worn tab, superglue or epoxy a small flat piece of metal to the end of the arm #48, bend it down, and with a Dremel Tool grind and shape a new tab. A pain in the but to do, but not too difficult a job . . . it is what I will need to do to my 4C.
I know this is a rather long message, but hope it is of some help to you.
EuGene
Can someone with a panoram #1, measure the radius of the film plane and PM me...
Ok and this was on a #1 panoram?... I had eyeballed it at a bit less than that maybe 3 3/8 at one point, but I don't have one to measure right now. I have to turn a new one on my lathe and can only handle a 7 inch diameter---doh... so I think the one I am fixing might end up being a one of a kind LOL. I may have to bring in the film plane a bit.
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Panoram No.1 Film Plane Diameter
Hi Jeff, Measurements from a No.1 (no model number so the first #1 model).
I took the measurements twice. Once from the underside of the camera, from the centre of the hole where the screwhead that holds the lens pivot is located to the edge of the wooden film plane. And also inside the camera using calipers from the centre of the lens pivot rod out to the edge of the side wall (holding the film roller). Both sets of measurements corresponded. Hope they are helpful.
If you are making new parts for the Panoram No.1 and make a new shutter release arm, myself and a few others may be interested, as that appears to be one of the commonest parts to stick/wear on these old cameras. Regards Stuart
Hi Jeff, Measurements from a No.1 (no model number so the first #1 model).
I took the measurements twice. Once from the underside of the camera, from the centre of the hole where the screwhead that holds the lens pivot is located to the edge of the wooden film plane. And also inside the camera using calipers from the centre of the lens pivot rod out to the edge of the side wall (holding the film roller). Both sets of measurements corresponded. Hope they are helpful.
If you are making new parts for the Panoram No.1 and make a new shutter release arm, myself and a few others may be interested, as that appears to be one of the commonest parts to stick/wear on these old cameras. Regards Stuart
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I'm new to the forum and panoramic photography (usually it's stereo or B & W with a cheap Kodak). I was wondering if anyone has a pattern for a bellows for a Panoram Model 1D? Any help would be appreciated!
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Kodak panoram repair
I am trying to repair my panoram,the lens swings while operating the load lever.
I hope to drop the mechanism plate on the top inside, I have removed the light "horn"but cannot free the bottom bearing screw to free the vertical lens support which appears to have the upper bearing on the mechanism plate. NORARon alerted me to the retaining nail that I have now removed- thanks, but I still cannot turn the lock nut or the adjusting screw accessible through the base, although I have flooded them with release oil.Any suggestions?
I am trying to repair my panoram,the lens swings while operating the load lever.
I hope to drop the mechanism plate on the top inside, I have removed the light "horn"but cannot free the bottom bearing screw to free the vertical lens support which appears to have the upper bearing on the mechanism plate. NORARon alerted me to the retaining nail that I have now removed- thanks, but I still cannot turn the lock nut or the adjusting screw accessible through the base, although I have flooded them with release oil.Any suggestions?
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Looking for a Kodak Panoram #1 fixer upper
Greetings,
An old thread, but I thought I'd see if anyone was still listening:
I bought a Kodak #4b 15 years ago but it has sat idle for the most part: loading halved sheets of 8x10 got old, quick. Got the bug again and am searching for leads on Panoram #1's that take 120 film. Any ideas?
Greetings,
An old thread, but I thought I'd see if anyone was still listening:
I bought a Kodak #4b 15 years ago but it has sat idle for the most part: loading halved sheets of 8x10 got old, quick. Got the bug again and am searching for leads on Panoram #1's that take 120 film. Any ideas?
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Hi all,
New person on this site. Anyway I discovered this site after searching for info about a panoram 1. I just read every comment in all 15 pages here. Wow, learned a lot, and saw some wonderful pictures one of you posted. I produce fine art photography and do custom framing. I have a huge collection of vintage cameras from the 1800s to today. I have been taking pictures with a 1929 brownie folding bellows camera, a 1950 Revier stereo camera, and a 1950s twin reflex camera. I recently got 620 film and will be using a couple of other old cameras. Well I got the Panoram just for display, but it seems to work properly and after hearing of your success, well I just gotta start using it!
Thanks all of you for your wisdom and enthusiasm,
Albert Mach
Thanks so much,
Albert Mach
New person on this site. Anyway I discovered this site after searching for info about a panoram 1. I just read every comment in all 15 pages here. Wow, learned a lot, and saw some wonderful pictures one of you posted. I produce fine art photography and do custom framing. I have a huge collection of vintage cameras from the 1800s to today. I have been taking pictures with a 1929 brownie folding bellows camera, a 1950 Revier stereo camera, and a 1950s twin reflex camera. I recently got 620 film and will be using a couple of other old cameras. Well I got the Panoram just for display, but it seems to work properly and after hearing of your success, well I just gotta start using it!
Thanks all of you for your wisdom and enthusiasm,
Albert Mach
Thanks so much,
Albert Mach
Hello, Albert.
I've been off of APUG for quite a while as I went through 3 months of radiation treatment for laryngeal cancer in '09, had a change of jobs, and am now recently retired. I haven't touched a film camera (including my Panorams) in about 1 1/2 years, so I am hoping to get my dusty Panorams out and try shooting with them again.
It has been so long since I have used them or worked on them that I need to read all of this thread then go practice in order to bring back all of my forgotten memories.
Smiff
I've been off of APUG for quite a while as I went through 3 months of radiation treatment for laryngeal cancer in '09, had a change of jobs, and am now recently retired. I haven't touched a film camera (including my Panorams) in about 1 1/2 years, so I am hoping to get my dusty Panorams out and try shooting with them again.
It has been so long since I have used them or worked on them that I need to read all of this thread then go practice in order to bring back all of my forgotten memories.
Smiff
Sorry to hear that you have been on the disabled list, hope all is well. Will be looking forward to seeing something from your panoram. I don't use mine too often, but I do like to get it out every now and then. I love those big transparencies.
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So what pushes arm 48 (in patent 693,583) up, so that it will engage the two holes 47 in lever 45? I see no sign of a spring. Is the screw at the shutter button end supposed to be tight enough to hold it up? Mine works fine (now that I adjusted spring 61), but I have to hold up the shutter button while cocking. Arm 48 is perfectly willing to fall down and not latch up lever 45 when cocking.
It would almost make sense for there to be a small spiral spring on the longer screw that holds arm 48.
I'm planning to replace the non-existent bellows on mine with some rubberized nylon from a cheap Chinese changing bag. (I cut it up yesterday to make new bellows for a Autographic Kodak Special No. 1 Model B. I hated that changing bag.) Pretty similar to shutter cloth, but a looser weave.
Thankfully, a prior owner already made bushings to make the pins larger in diameter to hold the 120 spools.
It would almost make sense for there to be a small spiral spring on the longer screw that holds arm 48.
I'm planning to replace the non-existent bellows on mine with some rubberized nylon from a cheap Chinese changing bag. (I cut it up yesterday to make new bellows for a Autographic Kodak Special No. 1 Model B. I hated that changing bag.) Pretty similar to shutter cloth, but a looser weave.
Thankfully, a prior owner already made bushings to make the pins larger in diameter to hold the 120 spools.
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Well, I've determined that there is supposed to be a spring at the heel of the shutter lever. Remove the film spool clip at the bottom right of the camera. This reveals a hole through which you can thread a screwdriver to remove the pivot bolt for the shutter lever. There's a recess to the right of it where a spring belongs. Your classic "ball point pen spring" is the right size, I cut about a 1/4" length. My mechanism now works well.
Other notes. I decided I needed a small thrust washer at the top of the pivot shaft. Not so much to reduce friction, as to move it downwards a tiny bit. I was having trouble getting enough clearance for the swinging hood on the back of the lens, it was catching on the pivot bolt of the shutter lever. That, and a little force with pliers, got the clearance.
There presently aren't any leather flaps at the ends of the swing, there's residue that looks like there may have been. Anyone else with a No. 1 want to let me know if they have leather flaps there?
So the mechanism is working fine, now I'm just figuring out the right size, shape, and folding for the new bellows, which I'm making from rubberized nylon changing bag cloth. Thankfully I have a No. 3A with original bellows to look at how they did it there.
Then I presume I'll have to put onionskin paper across the film plane to fine-tune the focus. I presume one normally focuses it at 20 feet?
Other notes. I decided I needed a small thrust washer at the top of the pivot shaft. Not so much to reduce friction, as to move it downwards a tiny bit. I was having trouble getting enough clearance for the swinging hood on the back of the lens, it was catching on the pivot bolt of the shutter lever. That, and a little force with pliers, got the clearance.
There presently aren't any leather flaps at the ends of the swing, there's residue that looks like there may have been. Anyone else with a No. 1 want to let me know if they have leather flaps there?
So the mechanism is working fine, now I'm just figuring out the right size, shape, and folding for the new bellows, which I'm making from rubberized nylon changing bag cloth. Thankfully I have a No. 3A with original bellows to look at how they did it there.
Then I presume I'll have to put onionskin paper across the film plane to fine-tune the focus. I presume one normally focuses it at 20 feet?
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