On the care of 35mm film: freezing/thawing...

[removed account4]

@jnanian: Yes, OMMV. One's Mileage May Vary. There are so many possible variables if one wants to start in with the "What if's.........." My point to the OP that stirred the hornet's nest is that MY experience over decades of freezing film, B&W and color, had no discernible downsides. No doubt brand/model, especially in color, MIGHT have some variable.

But for me, freezing works perfectly.

if you have the room, the freezer, the electricity and will ... sounds like a plan !

 

[Trask]

As an aside, speaking of frozen film:

http://www.atlasobscura.com/article...y-through-to-most-surreal-of-arctic-disasters

 

[removed account4]

As an aside, speaking of frozen film:

http://www.atlasobscura.com/article...y-through-to-most-surreal-of-arctic-disasters

thank you !

i thought you were were going to say
speaking of frozen, film at 11 ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kuklinski

 

[Sirius Glass]

@jnanian: Yes, OMMV. One's Mileage May Vary. There are so many possible variables if one wants to start in with the "What if's.........." My point to the OP that stirred the hornet's nest is that MY experience over decades of freezing film, B&W and color, had no discernible downsides. No doubt brand/model, especially in color, MIGHT have some variable.

But for me, freezing works perfectly.

+1

I only have several decades of experience freezing film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

if you have the room, the freezer, the electricity and will ... sounds like a plan !

The electricity will be used anyway. However if the refrigerator or freezer is full, there is less air to cool and therefore it will use less electricity. Therefore one should fill the empty spaces with film and photographic paper.

 

[Xmas]

You know what "CYA," means, no? Ilford HAS to take the conservative position. And it's certainly better safe than sorry.

But this isn't an airplane with terrible consequences if a bad decision is made. I've yet to find rust on any metal part, ever. Now, historically I don't shoot lots of film compared to many here, but OTOH, I've not had one failure, in regards rust.

All of my film has been frozen since 2001 in both dry Denver and humid Florida. Sporadically, since about 1981.

If Ilford say their tubs are not hermetic and you say they are, who do you think I should believe?
If you have not had any problems freezing film that does not prove anything.
If I have rusty cassettes straight out of boxes and tubs Ive just opened then moisture got in somehow?
Have you tried Russian roulette to assure us it is no problem? If you say you have tried it twice, do you think we would want to try it just to confirm?
I've watched a person, open a tub look at a leader, which was multi colour, and discard the cassette in street trash can, he keeps his in a fridge.

If you need to fridge or freeze you are at risk, you could try zip lock bag with fresh silica gel. Cause water will destroy film very quickly.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If you have not had any problems freezing film that does not prove anything.

Not freezing film has led to color shift and fogging. Since I started freezing film I have never had those problems again. Therefore it does prove something. Now I only have a few decades of freezing film so your denying the benefits of my freezing film is just plain bunk.

You have the right to be wrong, so please feel free to exercise it smugly.

 

[removed account4]

why does it matter so much what he ( or anyone else ) does ?

personal experience says it works .. ( his and a lot of other people )
and if he finds a bad roll of film, its just film ..
i am sure he has more film he can use
or there is a store he can buy new, undamaged, un frozen in date usefui film from ...

my personal experience suggests what PV does works too ( or at least give peace of mind )
but i also found not caring +leaving on the shelf or in a drawer &c works too ..

 

[Paul Verizzo]

@jnanian: Thanks. It's human nature to convince others that they must believe and do just as we do, isn't it? By doing so, we increase our perception of ourselves as more valuable.

Hooey on that. All I've been trying to say is, "It works for me, I've never found a problem." Heck, throw your film in the trash two years before it "expires," I don't care. But don't try to rationalize it to me.

 

[wblynch]

I think it's best to use up all that film before freezing is needed, and then buy new film to keep the producers producing.

But I seldom do what I think is best...

 

[Paul Verizzo]

If Ilford say their tubs are not hermetic and you say they are, who do you think I should believe?
If you have not had any problems freezing film that does not prove anything.
If I have rusty cassettes straight out of boxes and tubs Ive just opened then moisture got in somehow?
Have you tried Russian roulette to assure us it is no problem? If you say you have tried it twice, do you think we would want to try it just to confirm?
I've watched a person, open a tub look at a leader, which was multi colour, and discard the cassette in street trash can, he keeps his in a fridge.

If you need to fridge or freeze you are at risk, you could try zip lock bag with fresh silica gel. Cause water will destroy film very quickly.

Sigh. Whatever, dude.

 

[MattKing]

Originally Posted by MattKing (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Those polyethylene "cans" do not fully block the ingress of moisture. Depending on the humidity you work with, and things like whether your freezer is an "automatic defrost" type, you can end up with a fair amount of humidity inside the cans and, in a worst case scenario, rusty cassettes.

The foil pouches that 120 film is packed in do block moisture.
How do you figure that, Matt? I have high respect for you, so I'm curious.

The "cans" may be relatively impermeable, but the caps on them don't seal well enough to guarantee that no moisture will get in.

They do a pretty good job of protecting the film against all sorts of stuff, but they are not perfect with moisture.

 

[Xmas]

The "cans" may be relatively impermeable, but the caps on them don't seal well enough to guarantee that no moisture will get in.

They do a pretty good job of protecting the film against all sorts of stuff, but they are not perfect with moisture.

The clue is they used to pack 35mm cassettes in plastic foil paper laminates or metal screw tops with bonded soft rubber lined screw down tops. The former possibly hermitic the latter better than a push on tub but similar to preserved fruit jar. The plastic will withstand crushing better and is cheaper than metal.

If you need to ask about the tubs seal you are not a mechanical engineer major? Maybe you majored in arts?

But if you need to keep film cool zip lock and fresh ovened silica gel reduces any risk.

The majority of archival stuff I get has film damaged by high humidity so I cannot get a fog test cept for a few cassettes that were so rusty Id not put near a camera. Some merely has higher fog.


Carrots taste better just removed from ground and washed?

 

[wblynch]

You know that song, from the movie Frozen? Let it go... Let it go...

 

[Paul Verizzo]

You know that song, from the movie Frozen? Let it go... Let it go...

Or, John Lennon, "Let it be." More my era.

Some just have to be right. Not just for themselves, but everyone else.

Oops, sorry.............

 

[removed account4]

@jnanian: Thanks. It's human nature to convince others that they must believe and do just as we do, isn't it? By doing so, we increase our perception of ourselves as more valuable.

Hooey on that. All I've been trying to say is, "It works for me, I've never found a problem." Heck, throw your film in the trash two years before it "expires," I don't care. But don't try to rationalize it to me.

i'm not sure if it is human nature or not,
it is kind of weird

the physicist i speak with from time to time really
thinks it is funny that photographers are so anal retentive
about protecting their film from cosmic rays :w00t: and have throw down knock down
internet brawls / flame wars, call eachother names, debase them
because some folks think it is a waste of effort and others, are all-in.

flash frozen or whatever .. the best thing to do with film is expose it

have fun!
john

 

[Paul Verizzo]

flash frozen or whatever .. the best thing to do with film is expose it

Exactly!

Photography, as you and I know as old timers, has always attracted retentives. Ansel Adams was one, and for that we can be thankful!

 

[removed account4]

Exactly!

Photography, as you and I know as old timers, has always attracted retentives. Ansel Adams was one, and for that we can be thankful!

not sure about olde timers being retentive, sometimes people are just set in their ways .. not sure if that is the same as OCD
adams was autistic from what i have read, which might have lead to his obsessive nature.
as for being thankful for him and all that ... im not one of his followers, i don't practice his methodologies or his teachings
... but there are a lot of people who would agree with you that he was the best thing since sliced bread ..
as far as i am concerned, there are plenty to be thankful for ... ( who came before and after mr adams )

...

 

[Sirius Glass]

@jnanian: Thanks. It's human nature to convince others that they must believe and do just as we do, isn't it? By doing so, we increase our perception of ourselves as more valuable.

Hooey on that. All I've been trying to say is, "It works for me, I've never found a problem." Heck, throw your film in the trash two years before it "expires," I don't care. But don't try to rationalize it to me.

That does not work with film that has not been made for several years such as Kodak UltraColor 400.

It is not "just" my experience. When I started working at Kodak, I was told that I should freeze film. By the way I do not care what you do.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

flash frozen or whatever .. the best thing to do with film is expose it

Hallelujah! That's what I was hitting at: people that just stock film ("just in case it dies") and DON'T use it.

Personally I don't go out of my way just to get a few expired or out of production rolls.
When a film goes out of production, just like the Lucky Colour films in 2012 did, I'll just leave it and change to another that is in production.
The result is that I have still some rolls left over as I moved to Agfaphoto films. They are to be used this Spring. Most of the 20 rolls I had went to strangers in the street as whenever someone asked me about my film camera, I gave a roll for them to try. That is a good use of expired film!

Recently I bought a couple of Ilford FP4 expired in 86 just to get the cassettes as they are re-usable for my fresh bulk films.
Last weekend a good friend of mine gave me a roll of Ilford HP4 expired in 1971 (44 years old). It is now in use in my Nikkormat.

There is nothing wrong if you left some films expiry on purpose, for experiments, cross-processing or whatever.
The bad thing is to have expired film, because you didn't use it as you went "to other lands".

I really hoped that people that don't want to use film (gone digi) could give it away to some kids in the street or educational establishments, instead of trying to make a "quick buck".

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Hallelujah! That's what I was hitting at: people that just stock film ("just in case it dies") and DON'T use it.

Personally I don't go out of my way just to get a few expired or out of production rolls.
When a film goes out of production, just like the Lucky Colour films in 2012 did, I'll just leave it and change to another that is in production.
The result is that I have still some rolls left over as I moved to Agfaphoto films. They are to be used this Spring. Most of the 20 rolls I had went to strangers in the street as whenever someone asked me about my film camera, I gave a roll for them to try. That is a good use of expired film!

Recently I bought a couple of Ilford FP4 expired in 86 just to get the cassettes as they are re-usable for my fresh bulk films.
Last weekend a good friend of mine gave me a roll of Ilford HP4 expired in 1971 (44 years old). It is now in use in my Nikkormat.

There is nothing wrong if you left some films expiry on purpose, for experiments, cross-processing or whatever.
The bad thing is to have expired film, because you didn't use it as you went "to other lands".

I really hoped that people that don't want to use film (gone digi) could give it away to some kids in the street or educational establishments, instead of trying to make a "quick buck".

Nice thoughts, BUT: They need a film camera. Once in awhile I see one in Goodwill. I'll bet they continue on to the trash. Then, even if they shoot the film, they need to find a processor. As my contemporary thread points out, local C-41 processing is history. And if you jump that hurdle, how you gonna get them on Instagram?

 

[M Carter]

Hey, my last two rolls of EPJ live triple-bagged in my FREEZER… yes, I'll shoot it someday, and have a little cry.

 

[Xmas]

Nice thoughts, BUT: They need a film camera. Once in awhile I see one in Goodwill. I'll bet they continue on to the trash. Then, even if they shoot the film, they need to find a processor. As my contemporary thread points out, local C-41 processing is history. And if you jump that hurdle, how you gonna get them on Instagram?

Here in London we still have lots of brick shops for either film cams or lab processing.
Some open Sunday some doing both drop off and cameras eg Lomo.
There still is C41, E6 & mono labs.
The only major change is the 24/7 colour labs have gone and Kodak mono has disappeared from pharmacies last to go was BW400cn, leaving 135 HP5+ clinging on.
Several art colleges have a buy a system film cam in 1st year joining PDF file rule and the sellers increase ticket prices July to Oct. The kids are taught eg silver halide colour printing...
However the supply of good condition system cams is more difficult than a decade ago.
London is a good place for street photography too even the police will pose for formal or informal shots.
Some hobos will insist on a photo for a dollar before you take a shot well disappointed when you don't want one.
PS as well a 35mm and some 120 you get old pola cams for impossible of street sellers barrows still. But rare to see a camera in a charity shop (goodwill). We will understand your English but the converse is not as easy.

 

[georg16nik]

....
the physicist i speak with from time to time really
thinks it is funny that photographers are so anal retentive
about protecting their film from cosmic rays :w00t: .....

physicists not being photographers and photographers not being fluent in basic physics, chemistry are identical twins.
both parties knowledge and experience in regards to this thread is worthlessly irrelevant.

 

[removed account4]

physicists not being photographers and photographers not being fluent in basic physics, chemistry are identical twins.
both parties knowledge and experience in regards to this thread is worthlessly irrelevant.

i think a physicist who has vast knowledge about cosmic rays knows what she is talking about.
you are welcome to your own opinion