Noob seeks advice: Pentax 645 vs. Mamiya 645 vs Bronica

mweintraub · Sep 25, 2015

cuthbert said:
I am not left handed so I need my strong hand to hold the camera, also I would appreciate to have a trigger and an advance lever in a rational place (that Hassy doesn't) if I have to use the camera handheld, eye level and looking for quick targets.

Let's face it: the Hasselblad is probably the camera with the worst ergonomy because it was never meant to be used in a "dynamic" manner, and the position of the controls was dictated by the internal mechanism, not any scientific studies because it was always meant to be used on a tripod.

Having said that I like this one:

It even has a 1/1000sec shutter and probably I can use it manually!

Which has the same ergonomics as the Hassy.

cuthbert · Sep 25, 2015

mweintraub said:
I have the 88CM. It's finicky like the Hassy, from what I've gathered. I'm thinking of selling it and keeping the SQ-A.

With 6x6, you don't "need" a handgrip to help rotate the body. You're always in both landscape and portrait orientation. But I do agree, when I'm using a prism, I prefer the hand grip. But when I use a WLF, I don't.

Yes the entire point is that having the grip makes the camera faster to hand handle especially with the eye level finder. Also the rewind lever makes winding much easier and you have the shutter release in a more natural position.

I know the 88CM has the same ergonomics of the Hassy, but at least it's moderately priced and I don't have to spend thousands of euros/dollars/pounds for an unreliable camera!

Sirius Glass · Sep 25, 2015

cuthbert said:
I am not left handed so I need my strong hand to hold the camera, also I would appreciate to have a trigger and an advance lever in a rational place (that Hassy doesn't) if I have to use the camera handheld, eye level and looking for quick targets.

Let's face it: the Hasselblad is probably the camera with the worst ergonomy because it was never meant to be used in a "dynamic" manner, and the position of the controls was dictated by the internal mechanism, not any scientific studies because it was always meant to be used on a tripod.

Having said that I like this one:

It even has a 1/1000sec shutter and probably I can use it manually!

I do not see your problem. The shutter release is the same place as a Hasselblad and the film advance is that same as a Hasselblad.

cuthbert · Sep 25, 2015

mweintraub said:
Question: Does the AE-III show the shutter speed the body is selected at? My SQ-A AE Prism S does (so did the Mamiya 645 Pro AE prism). It showed both the metered value and the body value (usually blinking).

Also Question: If you're just setting the shutter speed to whatever the AE-III says, why not just use AE. I guess you can't do this when you use spot meter and re-compose.

I forgot this bit:

1) No it doesn't, it shows the M and the suggested value, if it had both values inside the LCD it would have been more useful.

2)Yes that's the reason why I say the "manual" mode is useless: this prism can be used just in AE mode, but for this it's good because it has average mtering, spotmeter AND AE lock, plus exposure compensation dial and a mysterious slider that serves to get a constant under or overrexposure.

This "manual" mode is as useful as the "manual" metering of the Canon A-1 that requires the diaphragm of the lensto be removed from "o", then inside the finder it suggests an aperture, and you have to look outside in order to select the correct f stop. Then better to leave the the lens as it is and shoot AE aperture priority.

Alan Gales · Sep 25, 2015

I mostly shot my 500C/M with the waistlevel finder. I had no problem cradling the camera in my left hand and I'm right handed.

For flash photography I used a Stroboframe which had a left hand grip. I used a non metered prism finder because the flash was located above the camera so a waistlevel finder would be useless.

I really enjoyed shooting a Hasselblad hand held.

rbultman · Sep 25, 2015

On the Mamiya 645 Pro, the meter still meters when you manually select the shutter speed. The display shows both the suggested speed and the currently set speed. The camera is always aperture priority. I mostly use auto when I use it as an SLR, manual with a tripod and MLU. I almost always use the built-in meter.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

MattKrull · Sep 26, 2015

cuthbert said:
This "manual" mode is as useful as the "manual" metering of the Canon A-1 that requires the diaphragm of the lensto be removed from "o", then inside the finder it suggests an aperture, and you have to look outside in order to select the correct f stop. Then better to leave the the lens as it is and shoot AE aperture priority.

Keep an eye out for an AEII prism. They are cheap (I think they were the most common back in the day). I have one and I shoot entirely on full manual.

mweintraub · Sep 26, 2015

I don't think the AEII will do what he wants.

macfred · Sep 26, 2015

mweintraub said:
I don't think the AEII will do what he wants.

No, it does not.

cuthbert · Sep 26, 2015

Alan Gales said:
I mostly shot my 500C/M with the waistlevel finder. I had no problem cradling the camera in my left hand and I'm right handed.

For flash photography I used a Stroboframe which had a left hand grip. I used a non metered prism finder because the flash was located above the camera so a waistlevel finder would be useless.

I really enjoyed shooting a Hasselblad hand held.

But if you keep the camera with your left hand you can't focus and in a short time release the shutter, am I mistaken?

It would be different if the lefty grip had a shutter release, then you can hold the camera and shoot with the left hand while the right is on the lens helping the support and controlling aperture and focus ring, it would take a while to get used but doable.

mweintraub said:
I don't think the AEII will do what he wants.

macfred said:
No, it does not.

I assume these AE prisms are what their name indicates: prisms that gives you aperture priority, and that's it. The "manual" mode can be used just to underexpose or overexpose, but for that I use the dial and/or the AE lock.

For what I've read from the manuals it appears that the Mamiya M645 (first one) had two prisms that work like a manual 35mm SLR lightmeter, probably the EC TL works the same too, but in both cases it means changing for a new system.

Today I went out and shoot two test rolls with Portra 160, unfortunately I found out that Boots can't develop 120mm so I don't have the results at hand but anyway I had a favourable impression of the Bruna, yes it's big and heavy but you can still walk around with it, people look at you like you have a sophisticated James Bond sensor or something like that.

The AE III prims works very well (as aperture priority of course), I wish the buttons of the memory lock and unlock were closer to the front if it so they would be easier to operate without removing the hand from the grip (that always worries me as it's an heavy camera and I fear I might drop it) but the other controls are rationally positioned IMO, even the shutter speed (that I don't use as the camera work just in AE priority), the only problem I had is to wind completely the film after the 15th exposure, the first time it stopped and I removed it finding that some of it was still in the upper sprocket, the second time I brought it home, disassembled the back, still it didn't advance, then reattached it and I don't know what I've done but somehow I was able to wind it completely.

I'm curious to see the results but it appears I might be needing a ND filter...today even shooting at ASA 160 it was difficult and most of the shots were at f22,16 or 11.

Alan Gales · Sep 26, 2015

I held the Hasselblad in my left hand with my left index finger on the shutter release. I focussed with my right hand.

When using flash I held my Stroboframe in my left hand which supported the camera. As you say my right hand cradled the camera for focussing and pressing the shutter release. Sure, it was a tiny bit slower but I was shooting portraits and not sports or birds or something so it didn't affect anything.

Sirius Glass · Sep 26, 2015

Alan Gales said:
I held the Hasselblad in my left hand with my left index finger on the shutter release. I focussed with my right hand.

So do I.

Alan Gales said:
When using flash I held my Stroboframe in my left hand which supported the camera. As you say my right hand cradled the camera for focussing and pressing the shutter release. Sure, it was a tiny bit slower but I was shooting portraits and not sports or birds or something so it didn't affect anything.

The strobe is attached to a flash bracket which mounts the strobe above and to the left of the camera. I can mount the strobe more to the center or right if I choose.

Alan Gales · Sep 26, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
The strobe is attached to a flash bracket which mounts the strobe above and to the left of the camera. I can mount the strobe more to the center or right if I choose.

I owned a special edition Stroboframe designed by some famous wedding photographer. When attached to the Hasselblad you could set it flat on a table. It also had a special Hasselblad mount so the camera could not spin on the Stroboframe. The frame located the flash above the camera and had an additional setting to tilt the flash toward your subject for closer shots.

I took my Hasselblad in on trade from a professional wedding photographer. He shot it a few times and didn't like it. He preferred Pentax 645 N and Nll cameras for all their automation. The Stroboframe came with the camera along with a Beattie Intenscreen he had also purchased. He had bought the Blad from B&H. It was a demo and in great shape. We were both happy with the deal!

Sirius Glass · Sep 26, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
So do I.

The strobe is attached to a flash bracket which mounts the strobe above and to the left of the camera. I can mount the strobe more to the center or right if I choose.

Alan Gales said:
I owned a special edition Stroboframe designed by some famous wedding photographer. When attached to the Hasselblad you could set it flat on a table. It also had a special Hasselblad mount so the camera could not spin on the Stroboframe. The frame located the flash above the camera and had an additional setting to tilt the flash toward your subject for closer shots.

I took my Hasselblad in on trade from a professional wedding photographer. He shot it a few times and didn't like it. He preferred Pentax 645 N and Nll cameras for all their automation. The Stroboframe came with the camera along with a Beattie Intenscreen he had also purchased. He had bought the Blad from B&H. It was a demo and in great shape. We were both happy with the deal!

Yes it is a Stroboframe.

cuthbert · Oct 2, 2015

P:\PT\PT-2\PT-23\ETO\project\other\PTSE\L494_LTR

flavio81 · Oct 2, 2015

cuthbert said:
P:\PT\PT-2\PT-23\ETO\project\other\PTSE\L494_LTR

The system cannot find the path specified.

mweintraub · Oct 2, 2015

flavio81 said:
The system cannot find the path specified.

Try this one:

\\TheCloud\photos\photos32\2014-04-29\IMG1024.jpg

Sirius Glass · Oct 2, 2015

cuthbert said:
P:\PT\PT-2\PT-23\ETO\project\other\PTSE\L494_LTR

flavio81 said:
The system cannot find the path specified.

mweintraub said:
Try this one:

\\TheCloud\photos\photos32\2014-04-29\IMG1024.jpg

That worked as well as a flaming bag of $#!+ left on the front door step!

Alan Gales · Oct 2, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Yes it is a Stroboframe.

I believe this is the one I had. It's hard to tell in the pictures. A Denis Reggie designed anti twist model for Hasselblad and Bronica. The bottom piece was completely flat so you could set the camera on a table. It used a camera screw with a recessed head which had to be attached to my Hasselblad using a screwdriver. Denis Reggie is a celebrity wedding photographer.

http://yonkers.adfora.com/posts/43-...TROBOFRAME-by-DENNIS-REGGIE.html#.Vg7B3Rzxacw

flavio81 · Oct 2, 2015

mweintraub said:
Try this one:

\\TheCloud\photos\photos32\2014-04-29\IMG1024.jpg

The network path was not found.

wiltw · Oct 2, 2015

cuthbert said:
OK I assembled the monster:

First impression: you can't shoot manual, and with manual I intend to set the shutter speed and change the F stop with the lightmeter that tells you plus or minus. What is called "manual mode" is basically speaking a an AE priority where you have to set up the shutter speed on the camera, so totally useless IMO.

That's a big letdown, I'll use this camera just as full AE priority...besides that the Bruna feels like a good quality camera, not too big to hold, good ergonomy with the grip, VERY noisy for being a leaf shutter camera, a little bit like an Hassy.

The max speed of 1/500 worries me as usually I shoot ASA 400 but I'll try get ASA 100 or lower, I'll test the camera in the weekend, still I'm thinking that perhaps a Mamiya 645 would have been a better choice, and yes it looks like more a camera from the 70s than from the 90s.

The Bronica AE-III is an excellent meter, comparable to Mamiya meter that has Spot and Average readings. It allows very fine control of shutter speed if the meter sets the camera...1/6 EV control increments!
You are NOT forced to use exposure automation at all. Set 'M' on right side rotary switch, allows metering to tell you shutter speed based upon aperture selected, with no exposure automation.
Top dial allows you to enter Exposure Compensation value, in range from -2EV to +2EV.
Switch on top allows selection of centerweighted Average or Spotmeter.
'M' and 'C' allow you to take a reading and store it in Memory, so you can reframe after metering without the exposure changing due to reframe; C clears memory.

macfred · Oct 2, 2015

cuthbert said:
P:\PT\PT-2\PT-23\ETO\project\other\PTSE\L494_LTR

After this last cryptical message, Cuthbert is lost without trace ...

cuthbert · Oct 2, 2015

flavio81 said:
The network path was not found.

Apologies! Wrong cut and paste!

cuthbert · Oct 2, 2015

wiltw said:
The Bronica AE-III is an excellent meter, comparable to Mamiya meter that has Spot and Average readings. It allows very fine control of shutter speed if the meter sets the camera...1/6 EV control increments!
You are NOT forced to use exposure automation at all. Set 'M' on right side rotary switch, allows metering to tell you shutter speed based upon aperture selected, with no exposure automation.
Top dial allows you to enter Exposure Compensation value, in range from -2EV to +2EV.
Switch on top allows selection of centerweighted Average or Spotmeter.
'M' and 'C' allow you to take a reading and store it in Memory, so you can reframe after metering without the exposure changing due to reframe; C clears memory.

IMO that's not manual metering at all, but ae priority with manual ovveride as the prism "suggest" the shutter speed that you should set manually on the camera, in the manual it's specified it should be used to under or overrexpose more than two steps.

P.S. the "message" was a link to a shared area I was sending to a colleague at work.

GarageBoy · Oct 14, 2015

You may not like it, but that method is way less clunky than other MF camera meter prisms-

On earlier hasselblad finders, you metered with the knobs on the prism, and then had to transfer the readings to your lens separately

Noob seeks advice: Pentax 645 vs. Mamiya 645 vs Bronica

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency