Noob seeks advice: Pentax 645 vs. Mamiya 645 vs Bronica

[wiltw]

I extensively handled all three back in the 90s, and Bronica and Mamiya were similar in handling; the Pentax 645 was too front-heavy with any tele lens mounted, as the grip handle is attached at the very BACK of the body, putting all of the weight (body+lens) and reuslting torque on the right hand, unless you cradled as much weight as possible in the left hand! While it was better engineered for exposure automation (conceptually it was like using a Canon EOS), its lack of interchangeable backs and finders and limited set of leaf shutter lenses (losing any exposure automation in their use) were also considerations.

I struggled with the choice between the Bronica and the Mamiya (the Pentax immediately was dropped from consideration due to the lack of interchangeable film magazines) and ultimately chose the Bronica for its leaf shutter lenses, making it the better camera for use with flash in covering events/weddings, and having a wonderful TTL flash automation as well as separate metering of the ambient exposure automation.

 

[rbultman]

I would steer clear of the Mamiya 645 Super unless the body is in great shape with low miles. The mirror stop on mine basically broke causing bad focus.

I picked up a Pro body that seemed NIB as a replacement. I love that camera. With the mirror drive grip and metering prism it is a full auto exposure SLR. Or, you can use the manual winder which makes for a great, light system for tripod work in the field. The lenses are great.

I also have an RB67 system which is also great for field work. I haven't tried to use it as a street camera. The things holding me back from using it as a street camera are weight and 10 shots per roll of 120. The 645 gives 15 and is more manageable weight wise for me. The RB is a slower camera to use, but for field use, that is not a great concern.

Good luck with your decision.

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[Roger Cole]

The 645 Pro with AE prism, winder grip, a back and a lens is a great system but you'll never mistake it for an OM or MX. To try out an RB/RZ for street shooting just hang a cinder block around your neck and walk around for an afternoon. If that doesn't bother you...

Don't get me wrong, I am sometimes sorely tempted to get an RZ67 system but if I did it would displace much of my 4x5 shooting not my 645 and 6x6.


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[ruby.monkey]

It's not too bad with a waist-level finder and 110mm f/2.8 - I'll happily walk all day with that on the L-grip. It's no Hasselblad 500c but it can be pretty portable; just be aware that the eye-level prism finders are about the size and weight of a 35mm SLR.

You want a 6x7 cinder block? Try a Linhof Technika 70.

 

[mweintraub]

....

The Bronica is what I use more than any of the other dozen or so cameras that I own. I have an AE-II prism (the metering of which works well but I almost never use it, favoring some form of handheld meter) and the Speed Grip E. The grip helps me balance the camera, I like it better than a crank, it puts my shutter finger in a familiar position, and it has a hotshoe which I use very often for a wireless trigger. The thumb winder on the grip is two throws per frame advance. I have no idea why the engineers couldn’t gear this thing for a single throw. I’m so used to it now that it doesn’t really matter.

...

Yes. I found the same thing. I have both an AE prims and SpeedGrip S on the SQ-A and found it a great combo when I want to run and gun. I do enjoy the WLF and hand winder too. When I got the ETRSi, I knew I wanted both the AE prism and SpeedGrip E in addition to the WLF and hand winder. Both setups are great.

It's not too bad with a waist-level finder and 110mm f/2.8 - I'll happily walk all day with that on the L-grip. It's no Hasselblad 500c but it can be pretty portable; just be aware that the eye-level prism finders are about the size and weight of a 35mm SLR.

You want a 6x7 cinder block? Try a Linhof Technika 70.

Agreed. I've gone street shooting with the RZ with WLF and 110 and either 65mm L-A or 180mm in my bag. You don't have to keep the camera on your neck. I never do! Not even 35mm!

 

[grokglock]

I've had bad luck with lenses on the Bronica system. Once the shutter goes you need a whole new lens and repairs can be more costly than another second hand lens. Parts are no longer available.

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[flavio81]

I also have an RB67 system which is also great for field work. I haven't tried to use it as a street camera. The things holding me back from using it as a street camera are weight and 10 shots per roll of 120.

That's why i stress the benefit of interchangeable film backs -- you can change to a fresh roll of film very, very quickly.

And i always thought that one would NEVER hang any pro camera from the neck. Ouch!! Nor from the shoulder. Ouch!!
I always make sure cameras are hung on the opposite shoulder, so the camera rests firmly against the torso. In that way, at least two support points are ensured.

 

[mweintraub]

I've had bad luck with lenses on the Bronica system. Once the shutter goes you need a whole new lens and repairs can be more costly than another second hand lens. Parts are no longer available.

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That's where you have to weight the cost of a new lens or new body (where the shutter is).

That's why i stress the benefit of interchangeable film backs -- you can change to a fresh roll of film very, very quickly.

And i always thought that one would NEVER hang any pro camera from the neck. Ouch!! Nor from the shoulder. Ouch!!
I always make sure cameras are hung on the opposite shoulder, so the camera rests firmly against the torso. In that way, at least two support points are ensured.

When walking around with shooting, the strap is crossed over my body from shoulder to opposite side. When shooting, the camera usually being held with the strap wrapped around my wrist.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Multiple film backs allows one to photograph a subject in both black & white and color with the same camera and lenses. It will also allow one to change to a faster or slow film as the need arises.

 

[LarryP]

Inserts vs.backs. I have several inserts with cases which allow me to quickly swap fresh rolls in. I just do not have the ability to switch mid roll.That is the main advantage to swapable backs in practice. YMMV

 

[GarageBoy]

It's not too bad with a waist-level finder and 110mm f/2.8 - I'll happily walk all day with that on the L-grip. It's no Hasselblad 500c but it can be pretty portable; just be aware that the eye-level prism finders are about the size and weight of a 35mm SLR.

You want a 6x7 cinder block? Try a Linhof Technika 70.

My dad loved the lenes on his press 70, but the damn transport system was so unreliable - and that camera with the 3 lens set up was HEAVY (he made me carry the 3 series Gitzo around on outings when I was a kid)


I personally love the Mamiya system- it's pretty comprehensive- has a nice selection of lenses, the APOs make you drool- interchangeable backs, winders, etc

If you don't care about that the P645 is nice and compact and lenses are cheap and common

 

[cuthbert]

Yesterday I visited a camera store and I held a Bronica ETR...I was expecting a bigger camera, definitely well made but it felt...primitive.

Also they wanted £299 which is too much for my taste.

I assume I should get the Mamiya Pro or better Pro TL, but its design (wave of plastic) doesn't warm me up, it looks like the dashboard of the 1993 Mondeo.

It's a pity a lot of people warn me about the Super, to be honest I liked that camera more and I don't understand the drawback in comparison to the Pro, besides age.

 

[Alan Gales]

A lot of weekend wedding photographers used 645 because the cameras and lenses were cheaper. If you want a really nice 645 look at Contax but it's going to cost you. They are in demand because people today put medium format digital backs on them.

You sound like you really appreciate using a beautiful camera that is very well made. You might want to step up to a Hasselblad. You will get a smile on your face every time you pick it up.

 

[Roger Cole]

You can also get a 645 back for a Hasselblad if you are so inclined. (And I think there's one for the RB 67 too, if you want the biggest, heaviest 645 camera on earth. (Well no, come to think of it, there are 645 roll film backs for 4x5 cameras. For that take an 8x10 camera, put a 4x5 reducing back on it, and then use a 645 under-the-ground glass Calumet RF holder...)

 

[mgb74]

I saw an awful lot of full time wedding photographers using 645 (as well as 6x6). Closer to 8x10 dimensions, 30 exp on a 220 roll.

 

[Alan Gales]

You can also get a 645 back for a Hasselblad if you are so inclined. (And I think there's one for the RB 67 too, if you want the biggest, heaviest 645 camera on earth. (Well no, come to think of it, there are 645 roll film backs for 4x5 cameras. For that take an 8x10 camera, put a 4x5 reducing back on it, and then use a 645 under-the-ground glass Calumet RF holder...)

Roger, I feel funny enough when I put my 4x5 back on my 8x10. There is no way I'm going to shoot medium format film with it!

 

[MattKing]

Yesterday I visited a camera store and I held a Bronica ETR...I was expecting a bigger camera, definitely well made but it felt...primitive.

Also they wanted £299 which is too much for my taste.

I assume I should get the Mamiya Pro or better Pro TL, but its design (wave of plastic) doesn't warm me up, it looks like the dashboard of the 1993 Mondeo.

It's a pity a lot of people warn me about the Super, to be honest I liked that camera more and I don't understand the drawback in comparison to the Pro, besides age.

Re the Super.

As mentioned, the film transport gearing is not nearly as robust as the later models.

That being said, the accessories are almost all interchangeable between them, and prices for the bodies alone are very low, so you could start with a Super.

I would avoid using it with the power winder though.

 

[DavidClapp]

I bought a Mamiya 645 1000s and its been wonderful to use. Don't rule that one out as its cheap as chips

 

[flavio81]

(And I think there's one for the RB 67 too, if you want the biggest, heaviest 645 camera on earth.

I do use that back and it's wonderful. You can shoot vertical 6x4.5 without any kind of neck ache. Try that with most 6x4.5 SLRs...

 

[mweintraub]

YAnd I think there's one for the RB 67 too, if you want the biggest, heaviest 645 camera on earth.

And it'll be one of (or THE) sharpest 645 cameras around.

I do use that back and it's wonderful. You can shoot vertical 6x4.5 without any kind of neck ache. Try that with most 6x4.5 SLRs...

If you're only using a WLF.

 

[flavio81]

And it'll be one of (or THE) sharpest 645 cameras around.

I'm not so sure, in theory a lens specifically designed for the 6x4.5 format would be sharper. But i don't complain about the results using the RB67 and the 6x4.5 format! In any case, a 50mm lens becomes a "32mm lens" (in 35mm format terms) in 6x4.5, and a 90mm lens becomes a "56mm" lens; both really usable focal lengths. And with no vignetting at all, of course.

Also, i have cropped many times from 6x7 to about 6x4.5 and enlargements were just fine.

 

[mweintraub]

I'm not so sure, in theory a lens specifically designed for the 6x4.5 format would be sharper. But i don't complain about the results using the RB67 and the 6x4.5 format! In any case, a 50mm lens becomes a "32mm lens" (in 35mm format terms) in 6x4.5, and a 90mm lens becomes a "56mm" lens; both really usable focal lengths. And with no vignetting at all, of course.

Also, i have cropped many times from 6x7 to about 6x4.5 and enlargements were just fine.

If the format is using the "sharper" center area, I don't see why it actually wouldn't be sharper edge to edge (the 4.5cm width).

 

[flavio81]

If the format is using the "sharper" center area, I don't see why it actually wouldn't be sharper edge to edge (the 4.5cm width).

Because the "sharp center" rule of thumb is not always true; depending on the lens designer, a lens can be optimized to have (for example) good center and good extreme definition at the expense of the middle sector; or for example good edge and middle sector at the expense of central definition, etc.

This is what has happened, for example, for some FX (full frame 35mm) lenses that have been tested on APS-C digital format with unimpressive results, but when mounted on a full frame 35mm DSLR, they do show very good performance.

Of course, this is just armchair analysis, at the end, as I said, the RB lenses work just fine for 6x4.5.

 

[MattKing]

The 6x4.5 backs for the RB let me shoot slides that my 6x6 projector can handle.

 

[mweintraub]

Because the "sharp center" rule of thumb is not always true; depending on the lens designer, a lens can be optimized to have (for example) good center and good extreme definition at the expense of the middle sector; or for example good edge and middle sector at the expense of central definition, etc.

This is what has happened, for example, for some FX (full frame 35mm) lenses that have been tested on APS-C digital format with unimpressive results, but when mounted on a full frame 35mm DSLR, they do show very good performance.

Of course, this is just armchair analysis, at the end, as I said, the RB lenses work just fine for 6x4.5.

That can't be right. People on the internet can't be wrong. Wait. Now you put this on the internet. I'm soooo confused! haha

Bonjour