Noob seeks advice: Pentax 645 vs. Mamiya 645 vs Bronica

[flavio81]

That can't be right. People on the internet can't be wrong. Wait. Now you put this on the internet. I'm soooo confused! haha

Bonjour

LOL!!

 

[Roger Cole]

I do use that back and it's wonderful. You can shoot vertical 6x4.5 without any kind of neck ache. Try that with most 6x4.5 SLRs...

I get your point but I have no problem shooting verticals with my M645 Pro.


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[Prest_400]

I've seen Bronica ETR kits going under 250$ a few times, if I had seen and knew before...

And i always thought that one would NEVER hang any pro camera from the neck. Ouch!! Nor from the shoulder. Ouch!!
I always make sure cameras are hung on the opposite shoulder, so the camera rests firmly against the torso. In that way, at least two support points are ensured.

Bandolier Style, that is. I agree. Also, a good strap for it; I must buy an Op-Tech for my 690 when I'm back home. Neck carry I've never been comfortable with and some cameras tend to bounce around, shoulder I feel the thing will slip and fall off; Bandolier style secures the camera well but keep it accessible.

 

[flavio81]

I get your point but I have no problem shooting verticals with my M645 Pro.

Yes, i'm just exaggerating, of course.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I do use that back and it's wonderful. You can shoot vertical 6x4.5 without any kind of neck ache. Try that with most 6x4.5 SLRs...

I get your point but I have no problem shooting verticals with my M645 Pro.


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Which is why we see Roger lying on his side taking photographs. If he shot 6x6 he would not have to keep lying on the ground.


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[Prest_400]

Yes, i'm just exaggerating, of course.

Though verticals through WLF on a 645 must be entretaining. Turn the camera and stand aside perpendicular to the subject?

 

[Roger Cole]

Which is why we see Roger lying on his side taking photographs. If he shot 6x6 he would not have to keep lying on the ground.


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The 645 format is generally not well suited for a waist level finder of course, unless one shoots only horizontals. I don't have the WLF for mine and don't really want it, largely for that reason. I have the AE prism finder on it.

The rotating back on the RB67 gets around that (but also means you are essentially carrying a 7x7 camera in order to shoot, in this example, 6x4.5.) That 7x7 square would be just the thing for that Polaroid back though.

Horses for courses and all that. For a tripod camera you can carry around some the RB or RZ is great. If you mostly want to carry it around then it seems to me 645 or 66 are better choices, but I suppose that depends on how much you want to carry.

For walking around a lot with medium format I more often take my Yashicamat 124. Small, light, fun, always gets appreciative remarks, quiet with no mirror slap - and no worries about turning it for verticals. (Also one lens, no interchangeable film backs and slow to reload.)

 

[cuthbert]

For walking around a lot with medium format I more often take my Yashicamat 124. Small, light, fun, always gets appreciative remarks, quiet with no mirror slap - and no worries about turning it for verticals. (Also one lens, no interchangeable film backs and slow to reload.)

I wonder if at this point it would be better a folder or a rangefinder like the Fujica 645.

 

[MattKing]

I wonder if at this point it would be better a folder or a rangefinder like the Fujica 645.

Both are wonderful options, but you may be worrying too much about issues that are rarely deal-breakers.

Many 645 cameras were used to shoot weddings - which should tell you that they are very flexible and quick to operate in the hands of someone who is used to using them.

I'd suggest ignoring the style and appearance and just grabbing and using one. You will find that the appearance of a camera won't matter much when you are actually using one.

 

[flavio81]

Both are wonderful options, but you may be worrying too much about issues that are rarely deal-breakers.

Many 645 cameras were used to shoot weddings - which should tell you that they are very flexible and quick to operate in the hands of someone who is used to using them.

I'd suggest ignoring the style and appearance and just grabbing and using one. You will find that the appearance of a camera won't matter much when you are actually using one.

Great advice here.

 

[Roger Cole]

Yep.

A rangefinder will be smaller and lighter than my M645 but if I use the 645P like one (only one lens, no extra backs) the difference, while still there, is much less. When I add those things the RF can't do anyway - more lenses and backs - is when it starts to bulk up.

Plus with today's used gear you can typically get your money back, or most of it, if you decide your first choice isn't for you.


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[cuthbert]

For curiosity's sake has the OP considered a Contax 645?

Yes...then I noticed they go for $2000 without lens.

 

[cuthbert]

BTW, I discovered the existence of a Pentax 645-like Mamiya, the 645E.

Some people say very good things about it some people hate it, but it appears it comes with an advance lever grip that would be more comfortable to use than a full motordrive, anybody have any experience with it?

 

[MattKing]

BTW, I discovered the existence of a Pentax 645-like Mamiya, the 645E.

Some people say very good things about it some people hate it, but it appears it comes with an advance lever grip that would be more comfortable to use than a full motordrive, anybody have any experience with it?

That rapid wind grip is actually an accessory. If you get one, be sure that it comes with the connector that allows you to actually mount it to the camera!

The connector goes between the winder and the film advance gear that the hand crank attaches to.

I'm not sure that it is all that easy to find a hand crank separately if you don't get one with the camera. I know that it is difficult to obtain the rapid wind grip connector separately.

The 645e is arguably the most recent of the cameras.

The 645e has a fixed penta-mirror viewing system that some don't like. The prism finders available for the Super et al give a slightly larger view, with slightly lower distortion. It has an adjustable diopter. It also has a built in meter.

The 645e uses the same inserts as the oldest 645 cameras and the backs of the Super, Pro and Pro Tl. Of course, it also uses the same lenses as all of them.

It is relatively light and small. It probably isn't as robust as the Pro or Pro Tl. I've often considered obtaining one as a backup for my Pro. It would also be an excellent way to get into the system.

PS there also is an accessory penta-mirror finder that was sold as a part of a kit with the 645 Pro Tl. So if you see one of those, it might give you a feel for how the view through the 645e's finder is.

 

[cuthbert]

That rapid wind grip is actually an accessory. If you get one, be sure that it comes with the connector that allows you to actually mount it to the camera!

The connector goes between the winder and the film advance gear that the hand crank attaches to.

I'm not sure that it is all that easy to find a hand crank separately if you don't get one with the camera. I know that it is difficult to obtain the rapid wind grip connector separately.

The 645e is arguably the most recent of the cameras.

The 645e has a fixed penta-mirror viewing system that some don't like. The prism finders available for the Super et al give a slightly larger view, with slightly lower distortion. It has an adjustable diopter. It also has a built in meter.

The 645e uses the same inserts as the oldest 645 cameras and the backs of the Super, Pro and Pro Tl. Of course, it also uses the same lenses as all of them.

It is relatively light and small. It probably isn't as robust as the Pro or Pro Tl. I've often considered obtaining one as a backup for my Pro. It would also be an excellent way to get into the system.

PS there also is an accessory penta-mirror finder that was sold as a part of a kit with the 645 Pro Tl. So if you see one of those, it might give you a feel for how the view through the 645e's finder is.

Thanks that's interesting because I've seen a finder like the one of the E for the Super and Pro and so I assumed it was the same, just integrated in the chassis. I also assume the screen is not interchangeble on the E so in my mind it was a sort of non modular 645 Pro (I don't know if it supports TTL flash).

I was attracted by that accessory be cause I would like to have a grip to hold the camera but the winders/motordrives I see look very heavy, if I can advance the film with my thumb like on a 35 mm I'd be happier than dragging around other 400 gr.

However, after having lost a huge amount of ebay auctions in these days tonight I was able to win a Bronica AE III prism and a PE 75 lens, so i assume I'll try to "build" a Frankenbronica (hopefully all the pieces will work together) so for the moment I need to leave the 645E and the 80mm f1.9 apart.

My understanding is that the AEIII prism offers aperture priority and a selection between spot and central average metering, so with a ETRSI I should be able to have a camera with the same specs as a 645 Pro Tl...besides of course the 1/1000s.

The problem is that at least in Europe it appears the ETRSI is rare, there are many ETRSs at reasonable price but the money for the additional "i" is double the price of the previous design..on the other side in the USA I've seen ETRSI at decent price.

I would buy in the US but...next Saturday there is a car show and I would like to test the performance of the medium format.

 

[macfred]

^ @cuthbert

Don't know where you are in Europe - I bought a lot of Bronica gear at IanB Foto Ltd (located in the UK close to the M25 / J17 in Rickmansworth).
Ian has a Bronica ETRSi (with lens, finder and back) on his site. The price is moderate. Maybe he will sell the ETRSi body seperate.

http://ianbfoto.com/home.php

 

[cuthbert]

That was a good suggestion, Ian kindly sold me a ETRSi body with 120mm back, grip and Bronica strap for reasonable money (at least in the EU), so right now I'm expecting the AE III and the PE 75mm, I assume I have a nice Bronnie kit to start enjoying the pleasure of 6x4.5 format, hopefully all the parts will be put together and I'll have the most updated Bronica model.

Question regarding the AEIII prism: is it possible to shoot manually like in a SLR camera? From the owner's manual it appears not.

 

[mweintraub]

If it's anything like the AEII, yes. On the AEII you switch the power/mode switch to "M".


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[macfred]

Question regarding the AEIII prism: is it possible to shoot manually like in a SLR camera? From the owner's manual it appears not.

I'm not sure if I understood correctly ...
You can shoot manually with metering through the AEIII prism but also without metering ( = AEIII in off-position). http://http://www.cameramanuals.org/bronica/bronica_etrsi_ae_iii_prism_finder.pdf

--
You should go for a split-image focusing screen - those are very nice to use with a prism finder. Maybe Ian has one.
I bought a split-image diagonal from Rick Oleson (just the screen itself, you have to re-use your old metal frame) for a nice price. http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-175.html

 

[macfred]

One of my first shots with my Bronnie kit :

untitled by Andreas, on Flickr
Bronica ETRSi - Zenzanon PE 75mm - AEIII prism - speed-grip

 

[MattKrull]

I really really like that photo. Primarily it is the subject/composition that grabs me, but the detail and tones (nice contrast, nothing too dark or too light) are really good (I like the texture visible in her clothing). What film & developer were used for that?

One of my first shots with my Bronnie kit : untitled by Andreas, on FlickrBronica ETRSi - Zenzanon PE 75mm - AEIII prism - speed-grip

 

[macfred]

I really really like that photo. Primarily it is the subject/composition that grabs me, but the detail and tones (nice contrast, nothing too dark or too light) are really good (I like the texture visible in her clothing). What film & developer were used for that?

Thank you, Matt !
The photograph above (it's my daughter Mia) was converted to b/w; it was taken on expired FUJI Superia X-tra 400 color film (@ISO 200) - C41 Lab development.
Here comes the original :

untitled by macfred64, on Flickr

 

[cuthbert]

Thank you, Matt !
The photograph above (it's my daughter Mia) was converted to b/w; it was taken on expired FUJI Superia X-tra 400 color film (@ISO 200) - C41 Lab development.
Here comes the original :

untitled by macfred64, on Flickr

Nice! Even if I had used a C41 B&W film and a yellow filter (the sky is pale)...which lens did you use? I spent a little more for the PE 75mm because I've read it should be better than the EII ones and work better with the AE III prism.

 

[macfred]

...which lens did you use? I spent a little more for the PE 75mm because I've read it should be better than the EII ones and work better with the AE III prism.

I use the Zenzanon 75mm f/2.8 PE lens - like it a lot.
--

From the series (again with a pale sky ... ) :

untitled by macfred64, on Flickr

Bronica ETRSi - Zenzanon PE 75mm f/2.8 - expired FUJI Superia X-tra 400 @ISO200 (b/w converted)

 

[macfred]

Here is one with the Zenzanon 50mm f/2.8 MC ( a non-PE lens) :

Winter winds - 3 by macfred64, on Flickr

Bronica ETRSi - Zenzanon MC 50mm f/2.8 - Kodak Portra 400