Nikon F2 - Use after storage

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Alan9940

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Seeking the collective wisdom of this group...

After reading some posts on these forums, the LFPF, and Japan Camera Hunter, I'm inspired to break out my Nikon F2. However, this camera hasn't been used in 25-30 years (I bought it new) and I'm a little concerned about lubrication drying out, etc. I would say that for the past 16 years it has been stored under ideal conditions. Do you think I could use the camera now without harming anything or should I send it somewhere for a CLA?

Thank you all.

Kind regards,
Alan
 

StephenT

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First thing......check to see if the F2 has a foam mirror bumper. If so, replace it. Self adhesive felt works fine.
(I have several F2's but none at the tip of my fingers right now. There is one Nikon that I don't think uses a mirror bumper, or maybe it's a Mamiya - that's why I said to check if it is there. If it is there, and you start operating the camera, you take the chance of the deteriorating foam sticking to the mirror or coming apart).

The light seals will most likely need replacing, but you can do that later.

Exercise the shutter at all speeds. MANY times. The more you operate it, the better it will become, at least that has been my experience. DON'T put any solvents in it at this time. Come back and tell us how it is working after a bit.

Good luck. It's a great camera.
 

ColColt

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Before exercising the shutter, make sure you haven't left a battery in there for any length of time. I had an F2A that had it's battery chamber cracked and consequently the shutter curtain tape was sticking and there was a space between the curtains maybe 1/16th inch. there's not suppose to be any space but an actual overlapping. If you advance the lever in that condition you're guaranteed a wrinkled shutter curtain and it's useless.

Someone I bought this one from left a battery in too long, cracked the chamber and somehow caused the curtain tape to stick. When you advanced the lever slowly you could see the gap between curtains. Advancing it more would only wrinkle and tear the curtain. Guess how I know this? Mine was sent to Sover Wong along with some pictures and he managed to fix the problem. This is what it looked like going to him.

_DEF5144a by David Fincher, on Flickr

That gap actually got a little larger as I tried advancing the film advance lever...I stopped before things got worse. Sover sent me this picture where the curtain tape had gotten trapped. Moral of the story is don't overlook anything before getting an old F2 back into service. Letting them sit around for years is the worse thing to do.

F2 7831745_3 by David Fincher, on Flickr
 

Sirius Glass

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After the above exercise the shutter and the lens apertures through there ranges several times.
 
OP
OP

Alan9940

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Thank you all for these quick responses.

Stephen - it does have a foam mirror bumper, but I examined mine closely and it appears fine. I fired the shutter many times and checked to see if any debris in the mirror housing...nothing. And, after these shutter actuation's the bumper is intact. Therefore, I'm going to proceed forward for now, unless I see something obvious going on.

ColColt - no batteries in my camera. I removed them many years ago when I stored it. Don't ask me how I know to do that! :smile: The shutter curtain in my camera looks fine; I watched it carefully as I advanced via the wind lever. No separation...nothing that looks unusual.

After my initial "go over" of the camera, I began exercising the shutter and apertures as Sirius Glass suggested. Amazingly, the shutter sounds accurate at all speeds! I don't have a shutter tester, but after many years experience I believe one's ear becomes tuned to the halving or doubling of the shutter sound. Close enough, anyway. To be honest, this camera looks to be in "like new" condition. I suppose I moved on to larger formats quicker than I remember! :smile:

Thanks, again, for all your suggestions.

Kind regards,
Alan
 

Sirius Glass

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Great news, Alan. Now buy some film and shoot it.
 

leicarfcam

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Someone I bought this one from left a battery in too long, cracked the chamber and somehow caused the curtain tape to stick.

I can assure you that the battery itself had nothing to do with either issue..

The battery chamber cracking (which is common with the F2) is the result of placement. There are wires that are placed under the tab and the chamber was screwed down which placed stress on the chamber tab causing it to eventually crack..

As for the shutter tape: the most likely cause based on over 40 years of camera repair experience was a sticky shutter spring which allowed for slack to develop which in turned caused the tape to slip over the shutter lathe.

OP: The only times I have seen sticky shutters in the F and F2 models were when these cameras were used in dusty or corrosive (near the ocean) conditions or when the user perspired heavily during use. This perspiration would find its way to certain parts and cause corrosion..

I have seen these two models sit for years and pick up where they left off..
 

ColColt

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I can assure you that the battery itself had nothing to do with either issue..

Not according to Sover...

" -The battery chamber cracked completely, probably due to swollen batteries in the past, see Photo 2


- A shutter curtain pulling tape was trapped, probably caused by the broken battery chamber, see Photo 3"

This is Photo 2

F2 7831745_2 by David Fincher, on Flickr

At any rate, he fixed the problem.
 

leicarfcam

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Not according to Sover...

Sover Wong says a lot of things I don't agree with...and I have been servicing cameras since before he went into the business..

Two things that cause the breakage in your image is as I said the routing of the two (green and yellow) wires. The person who built this camera was not paying attention or was in a hurry (Japanese QA was not always up to snuff contrary to popular belief). Or a combination of the wires and the battery contact being bent up too far which puts excess pressure on the fragile plastic... Nikon eventually admitted these issues and fixed the problem in later models of the F2. If battery swelling were to cause something like this, it would have to swell considerably since there is room for expansion.

In 1975 I bought a new F2 and discovered the same breakage as in your image 3 months later and there was no swelling of the batteries..

Going by your image it looks like someone tried to epoxy the two parts back together but epoxy does not work for long on this type of plastic.

The Nikon F had far superior QA than the F2...
 

leicarfcam

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- A shutter curtain pulling tape was trapped, probably caused by the broken battery chamber,.

In order for the shutter tape to have been trapped in the battery chamber it would have had to come out nearly half an inch which is impossible with a camera in supposedly working condition. The mirror box contains light trapping and prevents the tapes and curtains from going that far out of their track..
 

soverf2repair

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"Sover Wong says a lot of things I don't agree with...and I have been servicing cameras since before he went into the business.."

I haven't been on APUG for years but someone pointed out this thread to my attention. leicarfcam can you elaborate the many things I said (from where?) that you don't agree with? I would like to learn from you, as I don't know everything. Can you tell me who you are and where do your work?

As for that battery chamber, it was not previously repaired by epoxied and I have not seen a battery chamber broken like that before. It was the loose piece from the battery chamber that dislodged the tape which pulls the shutter curtain.
 

leicarfcam

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"Sover Wong says a lot of things I don't agree with...and I have been servicing cameras since before he went into the business.."

I haven't been on APUG for years but someone pointed out this thread to my attention. leicarfcam can you elaborate the many things I said (from where?) that you don't agree with? I would like to learn from you, as I don't know everything. Can you tell me who you are and where do your work?

Up front you come off as being the only one in town who can properly repair a F2. My Dad once told me "no matter how good you think you may be, there's always someone better than you". And yes that does apply to me also..

I live in Fort Worth, Texas where I worked since I got out of the Navy. I started my service and repair while still in the Navy and I finally retired last March 2015.

You have 5 levels of repair...Why??? I take a camera in and inspect it then tell the customer what it will cost.. Pure and simple..

"6) Does he use a professional Kyoritsu tester?"

Why does a repairman have to have a Kyoritsu? I've used 2 or 3 different brands with the same results.. One is as good as the other and I am talking about professional grade equipment.

"12) When did he last service an F2 body, finder or motor drive? Last week, last month, last year, last decade".

What does this have to do with how good the repairman is??

Your image of a typical amount of dirt inside the F2 is mis-leading since most of what you show is old foam seal material..

I have no idea how good you are since I have never met you or had you work on one of my cameras so I'm not going to put you down nor claim you are not a good tech but you seem to insinuate you're the best..

As for that battery chamber, it was not previously repaired by epoxied and I have not seen a battery chamber broken like that before. It was the loose piece from the battery chamber that dislodged the tape which pulls the shutter curtain.

Please explain to me how the loose piece dislodged the shutter tape since it is protected by the mirror box. A piece that large cannot get between the tape and mirror box to do so..
 
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Any particular reason you're doing this here and now? I can see no good just ego stroking which should be done privately. Stop it.
 

kobaltus

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Any particular reason you're doing this here and now? I can see no good just ego stroking which should be done privately. Stop it.


Why privetly. It is very interesting debate. I agree with some arguments, exposed by mr. leicarfcam and I want to hear the answer from mr. Sover.
I have one good and one broken F2. Who knows...
 

Xmas

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I repair cameras to.
I have 3 F2.
One has fabric paint patches on shutter curtains...
And my Dad is bigger than any of yours.
 

ColColt

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I'll say this about Sover Wong. Had I not thought he was the best in his field to work on my camera and fix the shutter problem plus all else that he did and kept me up to date on what was wrong with the various areas that had problems and how he fixed it sending messages and pictures throughout the entire process he wouldn't have gotten my camera.

I think there are enough countless testimonies of this man's expertise and knowledge with the F2 to warrant enough said. This all reminds me of the famous cast bullet mold maker Paul Jones. Few would deny he was the best in his field. Did others not make decent molds besides him that were beautiful and consistent? Of course not. It's all in the differences and quality of the work.
 
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Why privetly. It is very interesting debate. I agree with some arguments, exposed by mr. leicarfcam and I want to hear the answer from mr. Sover.
I have one good and one broken F2. Who knows...


Yeah you're like the guys who used to stand around the mosh pit just watching. I loved dragging them into the fray with me.
 

John_Nikon_F

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I'm another person who has been completely satisfied with his repair work. After getting screwed over by a shop that has been in business for 35 years and well-regarded in the Seattle area (and that has a Nikon F2 Photomic on their business card), I decided to let Mr. Wong work on my F2AS. Much better experience. Instead of having the camera being returned to me $150 later with the same issues it had before and a chrome advance lever cap in place of the black cap that was destroyed by them, I had a camera that worked better than it ever had, with an advance mechanism that's almost as smooth as an F3's mechanism, and ready for another 35 years of photography. If I'd been smart, I would've sent the camera to him in the first place. But, I figured I'd let the shop I'd worked with for the past 10 years work on it. Do I still provide business to the shop? Yes. Do I take an F2 there? No.

Like David, I'm not denying that there are other perfectly capable repair shops that can work on F2 bodies, but, at this time, Sover Wong is the best. Would I send a Pentax MX to him to be serviced? Probably not, but, that's because he specializes in the F2. I'm sure he could work on it, but, that's not his specialty. It also helps having the amount of Nikon F2 repair parts he has on hand. I took my DP-12 finder to a few local shops to have the missing correct exposure LED problem diagnosed and rectified. Every single shop around here said that it was either a bad ring resistor or a bad LED block assembly and that they couldn't repair it since parts weren't available. Sover had the part on hand. Sent him the finder. Received a properly working DP-12 with a ring resistor that will never fail and a brighter LED for the shutter speed iindication inside the viewfinder, as well as for the correct exposure when the eyepiece blind is deployed.

-J
 

BradleyK

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I'll say this about Sover Wong. Had I not thought he was the best in his field to work on my camera and fix the shutter problem plus all else that he did and kept me up to date on what was wrong with the various areas that had problems and how he fixed it sending messages and pictures throughout the entire process he wouldn't have gotten my camera.

I think there are enough countless testimonies of this man's expertise and knowledge with the F2 to warrant enough said. This all reminds me of the famous cast bullet mold maker Paul Jones. Few would deny he was the best in his field. Did others not make decent molds besides him that were beautiful and consistent? Of course not. It's all in the differences and quality of the work.

+1 (and then some). Sover had serviced three of my F2s to date (with two more bodies and a couple of MD2s in the hopper ready to go). There is simply no one else I would trust (or allow) to work on my Nikons. His knowledge of matters F2 is formidable; his work is meticulous; he is the embodiment of integrity; and he stands behind all his work.
 

soverf2repair

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I am an F2 user, collector and repairer in that order. I am an enthusiast and a lover of the F2. I have never said or wrote that I am the best. I went into this business because I have encountered cowboy camera repairers that cheat people. I am certain that there are old masters in Japan know a lot more than me. In fact, I am in the process of having a secrete hand written Nikon in-house F2 repair/service manual written by a master translated, so that I can learn more.

There is nothing wrong with 5 levels of service, as garages also offer several levels of service. I have a fixed price policy, so there are no surprises in extra costs for replacement parts. My standard service even includes the replacement of the slow shutter speeds mechanism, if it is required at no extra charge. I only charge people my extended service if there is significant amount of fungus or corrosion. I have only sold one Basic service, one Maintenance service, and less than five check-up and refoams. They are there if people want them. I don’t make up prices on the fly and screw people, as some repairers do.

Many younger repairer would have not seen or serviced the F2 before, and they would not know how to adjust it or lubricate it. They would have a go to service the F2, but they would ultimately make a bad job if they don’t have any spare parts, proper test equipment, dedicated tools or knowledge. I found most repairers don’t do a complete job. Many repairers don’t even bother to remove the front assemble to replace the rotten internal foams, or lubricate the internal parts. I would not give a vintage Rolls Royce to a Ford garage to service it.

Under the F2 mirror housing, there is a small gap for a thin piece of material to move around. That F2 had no corrosion, and it’s almost mint.

Leicarfcam, it sounds as though you have serviced the F2 before. How long did it take you to service the body?

As for the shutter tester, and for the interest of APUG members, can you highlight what features are needed to fully test and adjust the F2? We can discuss them feature-by-feature.
 

leicarfcam

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I am an F2 user, collector and repairer in that order. I went into this business because I have encountered cowboy camera repairers that cheat people.

I am not a collector. Instead I prefer to use a camera for what it is intended for but if collecting is your thing, that's fine by me.


I couldn't agree more. I too have encountered cameras (not just the F2) that were hacked on by wannabe camera techs. But not all are like that. Many were hacked beyond repair..but I have never cheated customers..

There is nothing wrong with 5 levels of service, as garages also offer several levels of service. I have a fixed price policy, so there are no surprises in extra costs for replacement parts. My standard service even includes the replacement of the slow shutter speeds mechanism, if it is required at no extra charge. I only charge people my extended service if there is significant amount of fungus or corrosion. I have only sold one Basic service, one Maintenance service, and less than five check-up and refoams. They are there if people want them. I don’t make up prices on the fly and screw people, as some repairers do.

If you're going to service a camera, you check it out then give a price...or at least that is how I've done it from the beginning.

Many years ago when I went to Wetzlar to get my certification from Leitz to service the screw, SL, and M-series Leicas, I was told if you want to service their camera then do it right and strip it down to the point where you can gain access to everything..

Many younger repairer would have not seen or serviced the F2 before, and they would not know how to adjust it or lubricate it. They would have a go to service the F2, but they would ultimately make a bad job if they don’t have any spare parts, proper test equipment, dedicated tools or knowledge. I found most repairers don’t do a complete job. Many repairers don’t even bother to remove the front assemble to replace the rotten internal foams, or lubricate the internal parts. I would not give a vintage Rolls Royce to a Ford garage to service it.

Nikons are cameras just like a Minolta or a Canon or whatever brand. I don't even consider Leica any better of doing the job right. They don't need any different work/service than any other brand..

Years ago here in Fort Worth this man who taught me a lot of what I know about camera repair today opened his own shop. For years he was the only game in town and he was top notch. He too taught me to do the job right. After his death his useless son took over and has botched most jobs he has done. Needless to say he is now out of business..

Back in the 90's a local GM dealership fully restored a Bentley and a Rolls and they did it with original parts. I don't know where the Rolls is now but I see the Bentley from time to time. Point is it does not always take the original dealership to restore another brand..

Under the F2 mirror housing, there is a small gap for a thin piece of material to move around. That F2 had no corrosion, and it’s almost mint.

I agree but the pictured battery chamber part was too big to fit through the gap so it did not cause the tape issue. Without having seen the camera I would venture to guess the issue that caused the overlapping tape was caused by a sticky spring that allowed slack to develop which then caused the tape to overlap.. There could have also been an obstruction somewhere else bu again without having seen the camera it would be simply guesswork.

Leicarfcam, it sounds as though you have serviced the F2 before. How long did it take you to service the body?

I have serviced a number of F2's as well as the F. However I have never had a F3 on my bench. No matter what camera I am working on I take a week or more because I strip them down and do a complete cleaning and service again regardless of brand.. I don't do an assembly line job..and I have only had 3 cameras come back for additional work..

As for the shutter tester, and for the interest of APUG members, can you highlight what features are needed to fully test and adjust the F2? We can discuss them feature-by-feature.

There are a number of tests that have to be performed regardless of model including checking the proper tension of springs since there are so many tech wannabe's on these forums who say "add tension.. That'll fix your slow shutter speeds". Some techs only check shutter velocity. But is it right near the opening and closing ends?? And yes all professional grade testers can check these areas. In addition there are other factors such as adjustment of the shutter brake. In the F2 I always replace the rubbers (both).. Most techs don't..

One other thing that I do is after adjustment, I let the camera (regardless of brand) sit for 24-48 hours then check it again for proper adjustment since the springs can settle in and cause it to be out..

Different cameras have slightly different methods of shutter adjustment. One example the Leica IIIa. There is no adjustment for the 1/1000th shutter speed as in the IIIc and IIIf. Proper measurement of the curtains and tapes length is critical. Then proper placement of the closing curtain on the main shutter drum and proper placement of the opening curtain tapes on the main shutter spindles is how you adjust 1/1000th. Even if you are off by 1/2mm you'll never get 1/1000th.

Now all shutters require certain tolerances but there is some leeway not like the above.

Would I pack my Nikon up and ship it off to you for service if I didn't already know how to fix it myself? Not likely since there are already fine techs right here in the USA. Nothing against you but why pay the added expense of shipping it off to the UK?
 

leicarfcam

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Why privetly. It is very interesting debate. I agree with some arguments, exposed by mr. leicarfcam and I want to hear the answer from mr. Sover.
I have one good and one broken F2. Who knows...

I don't have anything against Sover Wong. I'm sure he is a fine camera tech but I do however disagree with him in some areas...and I'm sure some disagree with me. It's all part of life..

I do however wonder why some would send their cameras to the UK for service at extra cost and possible loss when there are some fine techs right here in the USA who can do the job and do it right..

On this forum as well as other photo forums I see people talking about trying to repair their own equipment with no experience and that bothers me since many of these people get bad advise and the cameras end up on eBay in various states of dis-repair..

Any time I get a camera off eBay the first thing I look at is to see if there are any damaged screws or other misguided repair attempts. If so, it goes right back to the seller...
 

Xmas

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I don't have anything against Sover Wong. I'm sure he is a fine camera tech but I do however disagree with him in some areas...and I'm sure some disagree with me. It's all part of life..

I do however wonder why some would send their cameras to the UK for service at extra cost and possible loss when there are some fine techs right here in the USA who can do the job and do it right..

On this forum as well as other photo forums I see people talking about trying to repair their own equipment with no experience and that bothers me since many of these people get bad advise and the cameras end up on eBay in various states of dis-repair..

Any time I get a camera off eBay the first thing I look at is to see if there are any damaged screws or other misguided repair attempts. If so, it goes right back to the seller...

Your gas tank is always half empty...
 
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