News from the "analog revival"

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Agulliver

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You haven't heard Telarc's "1812 overture" recording, then.

Yep...those Telarc Soundstream recordings are great....and the LP pressings from the late 70s have 96dB dynamic range. When they came out people literally destroyed loudspeakers with them.
The other really famous Telarc disc was the Frederick Fennell Cleveland Symphonic Winds record with it's bass drum that required a note inside the sleeve advising users could damage their speakers unless they kept the volume low.

And no....the stylus does not jump out of the groove, nor does the record seem to be damaged with repeated plays...urban myth. I can put on my original copy of the Frederick Fennel disc, now well over 40 years old, and hear that bass drum perfectly.

The thing with the Soundstream system is that it's minimum 50kHz sampling rate an 16 or 20 bit.....with a computer DAW as part of the system....recording engineers, producers and mastering engineers were expected to examine the soun waves on the screen and check for any aliasing or digital artefacts....and correct them manually. It worked, and the extended frequency response over and above 44/16 systems seems to really make a difference...compare to the early Denon "Direct Digital" LPs from the same era which sound truly horrible. The Telarc people also knew how to record an orchestra. You don't mic up every damned instrument individually.
 

138S

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with it's bass drum that required a note inside the sleeve advising users could damage their speakers unless they kept the volume low.

Yes... Bass extension has some risks, I've smoked some speakers with a 3-20 Hz test, Speakers are coils and at low Hz electric impedance is quite low, allowing to pass a large deal of current that are to reheat them. Some amplifiers hi-pass over 20Hz, some have a button for it... 0-30Hz may reheat the coils. Many Hi End setups use amplifiers that have x2 RMS than the speakers to have no instant in what amplification comes short, this cabe a risk. If we want to be in the safe side then ampli has to offer well less RMS wattage than speakers allow.
 

George Mann

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IMO, no... Audiophiles use reference CDs for good reasons. https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2016/6/5/my-top-ten-references-cds-for-reviews

But if you are able to hear the 44.1kHz quantization then you can upsample to 192kHz.

Quantinzation produces a huge amount of out-of-band noise and distortion that directly affects the audible band of high frequencies.

The amount of these artifacts varies. Audiophile recordings attempt to preshape it's amplitude in order to minimize it.
 

138S

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Quantinzation produces a huge amount of out-of-band noise and distortion that directly affects the audible band of high frequencies.

Of course it will happen with low quality audio recordings or with a bad low end DAC, but this will not happen with regular CD quality with a good DAC.

One thing is MP3 and another one CD quality. Spotify and Pandora typically stream at bitrate of 160 kbps (for free), which is less than that the MP3s quality. With Spotify Premium you may get 320kbps. But CD quality is 1,411 kbps. There is certain (perhaps huge if you want) "amount of out-of-band noise and distortion" at 160kbps, but 1,411kbps of a CD is perfect audio. Still, if you want, there is High-Resolution Audio’s bitrate of 9,216 kbps which is a plain overkill, but it allows signal manipulation (equalization, edition, filters, etc) without damaging the original quality.

If you have a High End setup I can point you many FLAC tracks in youtube sporting perfect audio. Vynil has a footprint we may love (I do), but not a better quality than a CD.

https://www.vox.com/2014/4/19/5626058/vinyls-great-but-its-not-better-than-cds
 

George Mann

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Of course it will happen with low quality audio recordings or with a bad low end DAC, but this will not happen with regular CD quality with a good DAC.

The only cd playback system that I am aware of that effectively negates quantization artifacts is made by Zanden ($30k US).

Still, if you want, there is High-Resolution Audio’s bitrate of 9,216 kbps which is a plain overkill, but it allows signal manipulation (equalization, edition, filters, etc) without damaging the original quality.

The original quality was already damaged by the inherently lossy analog to digital process.

The only exception may be pure DSD.

Vynil has a footprint we may love (I do), but not a better quality than a CD.

My exhaustive tests, as well as technical engineering experience shows otherwise.
 

Cholentpot

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Of course it will happen with low quality audio recordings or with a bad low end DAC, but this will not happen with regular CD quality with a good DAC.

One thing is MP3 and another one CD quality. Spotify and Pandora typically stream at bitrate of 160 kbps (for free), which is less than that the MP3s quality. With Spotify Premium you may get 320kbps. But CD quality is 1,411 kbps. There is certain (perhaps huge if you want) "amount of out-of-band noise and distortion" at 160kbps, but 1,411kbps of a CD is perfect audio. Still, if you want, there is High-Resolution Audio’s bitrate of 9,216 kbps which is a plain overkill, but it allows signal manipulation (equalization, edition, filters, etc) without damaging the original quality.

If you have a High End setup I can point you many FLAC tracks in youtube sporting perfect audio. Vynil has a footprint we may love (I do), but not a better quality than a CD.

https://www.vox.com/2014/4/19/5626058/vinyls-great-but-its-not-better-than-cds

Point me to them FLACs. My early 2000 Aiwas plugged into my late 80's Emerson can't wait. The M-Audio Delta 1010 makes everything sound good.
 
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Believe me...
Note to readers who aren't the quoted troll. A wise person automatically disbelieves what's being peddled when the peddler starts out by requesting that one "believe them." :smile:
...I know exactly...
You "know" nothing other than my PHOTRIO user name.
...what kind of Borg I am responding to!
In the absence of anything substantive, fall back on ad hominem. Classic troll defense. As always, a total failure to impress any thinking readers.
 

MattKing

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I wish there was more Super Audio CDs (SACD) out there. The ones I have sound very nice through the lower cost Sony SACD compatible players and quite basic stereo equipment I use. I expect some of that is due to the source "masters" being of excellent quality before the decision was taken to release a SACD version.
I'm sure that SACDs don't meet the standards that some people here demand, but I would suggest that if they were the "default" standard for CDs, there would be more of them sold now.
Oscar Peterson sounds wonderful on a SACD.
 

138S

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I wish there was more Super Audio CDs (SACD) out there...
I agree completely. However, we live in an age when the market is driven by consumers who predominantly consume audio via MP3s. Reality sucks, but it's real.

The massively superior sound of my Oscar Peterson CDs compared to MP3s, much less the ticks, pops and swooshes if LPs, is quite adequate for those of us interested in music. :smile:
 
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Can you descend any further? My prediction: a resounding "yes!"...
I have been dealing with you jokers all of my life. You never change.
Prediction validated. Pure ad hominem. Utterly devoid of substance. Dig on; your credibility keeps descending into that hole. :smile:

By the way, I'm one person, so perhaps the singular "joker" might have been more appropriate. :D
 

Agulliver

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My credibility isn't even a single bit tarnished in my dealings with you!

Your posts have credibility. The troll's do not. You both have track records which are easily searched.

Back to our scheduled programming. There is a tangible analogue revival. Vinyl records, photographic film and to some extent even the humble cassette tape. More bands, big names and smaller, are choosing to record on tape even if in some cases subsequent editing is done digitally. I get labelled a hater of digital audio despite going to great lengths to point out that higher resolution digital formats than the CD can and do sound wonderful. It is specifically the CD and lesser formats that are an issue.

Whether the analogue revival is maintained is another matter....though in the case of vinyl records we have at least a decade of it...and each year the naysayers predict the bubble will burst. Some even point to lower sales when most of the world was "locked down" and shout "LOOK! PROOF! I TOLD YOU!".
 

138S

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George Mann

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Your posts have credibility. The troll's do not.

Thanks.

It is specifically the CD and lesser formats that are an issue

You need to hear a regular "redbook" cd played on a SOTA player such as the Zanden, which shows us that they can sound better.

Yes, they do have less resolution than a well recorded and pressed record. But the biggest problem is in the standardized "redbook" dac designs.
 

Arthurwg

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There must be something wrong. I like the sound that comes from my car radio OK.
 

MattKing

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There must be something wrong. I like the sound that comes from my car radio OK.
My father's cousin was Dorothy Collins, who was married to Raymond Scott, the American composer, band leader, recording artist, producer and musical experimenter. He had a turntable in his car - they were available as accessories in some American cars at the time.
My Dad remembered riding with him once while he played a record. It was Raymond Scott's opinion that the inside of an automobile was an excellent listening environment.
This was before 1961, the car would no doubt have been large, and I don't know what he thought about road noise.
If Dad had been the one who chose the LP, it would most likely have been Duke Ellington.
 

Cholentpot

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My father's cousin was Dorothy Collins, who was married to Raymond Scott, the American composer, band leader, recording artist, producer and musical experimenter. He had a turntable in his car - they were available as accessories in some American cars at the time.
My Dad remembered riding with him once while he played a record. It was Raymond Scott's opinion that the inside of an automobile was an excellent listening environment.
This was before 1961, the car would no doubt have been large, and I don't know what he thought about road noise.
If Dad had been the one who chose the LP, it would most likely have been Duke Ellington.

I was taught to listen to mastered tracks in my car and then go back and remix.
 
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