New To 4x5 Photography - Spotmeter Suggestions

[Alan Edward Klein]

I learned photography using a Luna Pro, but find the Pentax Digital Spot to be spot-on. I also learned metering deep in the redwoods forests under various thickness of fog/cloud cover...I found no 'usual' reading. Shadows where I wanted detail might vary two or three stops just 50 yards up the trail. I am always amazed out in Death Valley where the light values/exposures would not change all day.

I am interested in, and use, the scene's brightness range as the guide to film development. Giving the film around twice the 'normal' development, modified based on the highlight readings . This is as close to the Zone System as I get. My negs are used in alt processes (pt/pd and carbon printing) and I have been doing it long enough to create negatives that best suit the way I print in these processes.

Below is an iPhone shot from where I had the 11x14 set up last Tuesday in Yosemite. The spot meter came in real handy. Taking readings off the trunk would have been difficult otherwise. (Trunk: darkest 7 to 8, in sun 11, rocks in sun 13 as was white water. -- holders exposed at 9). It took all the afternoon to scout, then haul the 11x14 up to this rock. Sure wish I had remembered to load film into the holders, though. I'll try again next year.

Print it! It's a great shot, Vaughn.

 

[Hassasin]

well, tbf landscape photography was also successfully accomplished prior to the advent of film: why are we using kodak's or ilford's products?

(and landscape depiction was successfully accomplished before photography. a set of pencils should be more than enough, let's close this website)

Not really an analogy is it? ZS is not needed to make well exposed photographs, on any medium.

 

[Vaughn]

Print it! It's a great shot, Vaughn.

I'll try try it again next year with film in the holders!...

I have it already on 11x14 film -- just want to get an image of the oak with water all around it. It helps to define the Place a little better.

 

[tykos]

Not really an analogy is it? ZS is not needed to make well exposed photographs, on any medium.

pointing out that landscape photography existed before zs and spot meters is silly, i was just pointing that out.
And i don't think i wrote somewhere zs is needed to expose correctly anything, have i?
Or that a spotmeter is absolutely needed.

Fact is, OP asked about spotmeters, photrio quickly decided he was adamant in using only zone system for each and every picture he'll be taking for the rest of his life and thus he needed to be saved from this.

 

[koraks]

Fact is, OP asked about spotmeters, photrio quickly decided he was adamant in using only zone system for each and every picture he'll be taking for the rest of his life and thus he needed to be saved from this.

Please see post #18 where OP specifically indicates he wants to explore the Zone System and the search for a spot meter seems to fit in that ambition. There's no need to save anyone from anything on this forum. If you feel any saving is necessary, please use the 'report' function and we'll look into the matter. This is evidently not a case where we'd have to intervene. At least not yet. We may have to if people put things on edge deliberately. So let's not, shall we? Thanks.

 

[Chan Tran]

I was thinking immediately to the Minolta Spotmeter M which were cheap a few years ago but now it seems the prices have gone up.

 

[tykos]

Please see post #18 where OP specifically indicates he wants to explore the Zone System and the search for a spot meter seems to fit in that ambition. There's no need to save anyone from anything on this forum. If you feel any saving is necessary, please use the 'report' function and we'll look into the matter. This is evidently not a case where we'd have to intervene. At least not yet. We may have to if people put things on edge deliberately. So let's not, shall we? Thanks.

I don’t think you understood me and that’s probably my fault, but ok.

 

[Hassasin]

pointing out that landscape photography existed before zs and spot meters is silly, i was just pointing that out.
And i don't think i wrote somewhere zs is needed to expose correctly anything, have i?
Or that a spotmeter is absolutely needed.

Fact is, OP asked about spotmeters, photrio quickly decided he was adamant in using only zone system for each and every picture he'll be taking for the rest of his life and thus he needed to be saved from this.

I think you misunderstood my post, but no need to poke at it

 

[BrianShaw]

I think you misunderstood my post, but no need to poke at it

..... and I think he/she misunderstood my post when he/she was silly enough to poke at it. So we're all in the same boat. LOL

The end. No harm; no foul...

 

[Paul Howell]

why use tmax if aa was successfully using glass plates in his youth?

Well finding glass plates is difficult, not sure if ILford still coats glass plates when taking LF and odd and ends formats orders. Second glass plates break, harder to handle when processing. AA had his irst experience of visualaiton in the 1920 shooting half dome, he was using glass plates, but moved on as film eveloved. He stated with a Weston wide angle meter, moved on to scienftice 1% meter, then a Pentax spot meter his last meter mentioned in the last editon of the Negative was a Pentax Digital Spot Meter. Slavich might still coat glass plates, but with sanctions doubt I could order a box.

 

[Donald Qualls]

not sure if ILford still coats glass plates when taking LF and odd and ends formats orders.

Last I checked, the last commercial glass plates were from Svema, and they've been out of production for a good while. Now there are Zebra, hand coated in Serbia(?) with a very slow, blue-sensitive emulsion, and when he gets his production facility rebuilt after a house move there will (hopefully) again be J. Lane plates, in both slow blue-sensitive and ISO 25 Orthochromatic (also hand coated). And of course there are DIY solutions for both dry gelatin plates and wet collodion plate photography.

All of which, IMO, are a hobby in themselves and not a serious medium for general photography.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I don't know exactly when Kodak stopped making astronomical glass plates, but the last emulsion was the early version of 100 TMax. A friend of mine once supervised the big Lick Observatory on Mt Hamilton, where thousands of old glass plates are stored, and still studied. That's one of the biggest refractor telescopes in the world, and obviously way way pre-digital. It's mainly used for teaching purposes today, since all the light pollution from Silicon Valley sprawl in recent decades has spoiled the viewing quality to a considerable degree.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I highly recommend the Minolta Spot F. I've had mine since '92. Many for sale at eBay.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Spotmeter F reads identical to Pentax digital spotmeter. Main difference is between pushbutton control on the Minolta and the manual ring style of the Pentax, which I prefer. Either is a great meter.

 

[hardly any color]

Also suggest the Minolta mentioned above and there happens to be one for sale on this forum.

I like the Minolta as well, and prefer it over the Pentax. It has much richer functionality and i find it easier to use

 

[Chan Tran]

I like the Minolta as well, and prefer it over the Pentax. It has much richer functionality and i find it easier to use

The only thing people like the Pentax because it has the dial.

 

[John Wiegerink]

The Minolta Spot F is the meter I really wanted and was looking to buy, but I stumbled on a Pentax Digital Spot for a very good price. I must admit, for a slow, old feeble brain like mine, the Pentax dial works great.

 

[Franswa]

The only thing people like the Pentax because it has the dial.

I can understand that, especially if they're planning on adhering a zone dial with it

 

[Chan Tran]

I can understand that, especially if they're planning on adhering a zone dial with it

That's why I am thinking that any spot meter can give the LV value. What if someone just make the dial and and make it in the way with the built in zone scale on it?

 

[IOWA CAMERA GUY]

I'm on the newer side of large format, I shoot a Horseman 45HF and I mainly meter with my Sekonic Studio-Deluxe (sometimes my phone when I forget my meter!). I know both options are not the best for large format but I have produced some results that I've been happy with, at least as the first attempts trying out 4x5. What are some good spotmeter options that are reliable?

I know of the classics like the Pentax V but the ones I've found are either out of my budget or the lenses have haze/fungus, so what else are people using and what are some options that I might not be aware of? Also where's some places that aren't ebay to look for spotmeters (unfortunately I live in a camera store desert, so no real local options to check).

Also what are some tips people have for spotmetering a scene? I've owned my 4x5 for about a year now so I'm still learning and I'm happy to hear any tips!

Thanks for the input and sorry for the common question.

"I know both options are not the best for large format”: OK, WHY, exactly, do you not think either of those two meters are not satisfactory?

They both meter in different ways, but as to grabbing a light reading either one does the job.

PICK ONE METER, and learn to use it properly and well.

There a billion pages of instructions on how to use a light meter, out there, most are OK, but finally, if you download (or already have) a copy of the Sekonic light meter instructions for the meter(s) you have, those are probably as good as anything for learning how to actually METER.

There is no MAGIC to using a meter, for most metering tasks, it reads the light available, you have a film with a certain ISO rating, and with a 4x5 camera, you aren’t shooting action sports (probably).

Normally your subjects are not moving, they are lumps on a table, pick any combination of lens opening and shutter speed to put the proper amount of light on the film for a proper exposure.

1). Shutter speed controls how much motion is recorded on the film.

2). Lens opening controls how much of your subject, front to back, will be rendered more or less sharply.

3). Film ISO governs how much light you may need to get to the shutter speed or lens opening you want to use.

4). The amount of light you have (turn on or off an extra bulb) allows you to control the range of shutter speeds and lens openings you can use (much like changing the ISO of the film you use).

You have 4 factors:

The ISO of the film is ‘fixed’, choose Tri-X you have 400.

Turn on the lights, you have X lumens…those 2 things, once selected, are now beyond your control, “you cannot turn the sun on and off, nor dim it at will”.

Pick the shutter speed you want to use…now, there is, theoretically, only ONE lens opening which is ‘allowed’ in order to get a proper exposure.

If you change the shutter speed to stop motion, you must compensate for that change by adjusting the lens opening.

It ain't hard, it’s just photography and how it works, or just look at the Kodak film instruction sheet for solid guidance.

60+ years in photo, camera store manager/owner for 50+ years…I’ve probably forgotten more than most people know (no brag, I am just getting old).

 

[BrianShaw]

That's why I am thinking that any spot meter can give the LV value. What if someone just make the dial and and make it in the way with the built in zone scale on it?

Well, Gossen did that on at least one of the Luna Pro models that had a spot attachment. But don’t all meters with a dial give “Zone V”… the LV index mark. Beyond that is rather basic addition and subtraction.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I never saw any sense in those zone stickers on the dial to a Pentax. Even a math idiot like me can look at the center point indicator equivalent to Zone V, and count three or four fingers either direction. There are already EV increment markings, plus an IRE scale.

We had a fellow where I worked who grew up working on the railroads and crude lumber mills in the South, and had several stumpy fingers partially sawed off. Those would have been good for counting half-stop increments.

 

[Chan Tran]

Well, Gossen did that on at least one of the Luna Pro models that had a spot attachment. But don’t all meters with a dial give “Zone V”… the LV index mark. Beyond that is rather basic addition and subtraction.

I meant one that shows the 10 zones like those zone sticker. I think that is what people pay big money for the Pentax. Although the Pentax is decent it's not more accurate than the Minolta, Sekonic or Gossen and accuracy is not what people pay big money for the Pentax. It can be implemented with with an LCD screen and software but it seems no manufacturers care to do it and it does make sense as personally I don't want any of them. I basically only want the LV that's all the meter is for.

 

[GregY]

I highly recommend the Minolta Spot F. I've had mine since '92. Many for sale at eBay.

Minolta Spotmeter F, Pentax Spotmeter V, Pentax digital.... all fine meters. It depends, do you find one at a yardsale?.... your 'local' brick & mortar camera store? FB marketplace? Estate sale? Did someone give you one.....or do you succumb to buying online @ ebay where you pay $35-50 USD for shipping?
I've had my Pentax Digital for long enough i can't remember where i got it. Is it the best? Does it matter? They're all pretty reliable unless you drop them, or runover them with your car.

 

[Craig]

They're all pretty reliable unless you drop them, or runover them with your car.

I have 3 hand held meters: Gossen LunaSix 3, Pentax spot and Minolta Autometer IIIF. Oddly, since it is the newest and has a digital readout, the Minolta reads about a stop higher than the other 2, or the in-camera meters in my Nikons. No idea why, and I don't know if it is calabratable.

I was disappointed, I bought the Minolta to be a modern, accurate meter that took widely available batteries, and it appears way out of calibration. Maybe it was dropped before I bought it?

The Gossen reads the same for incident and reflective off a grey card, the Minolta does not.