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Yeah I don't see where they state that they accidentally asked for APS-C size shutters. They do state that the high speed shutter they want is more available in that size than full frame....but not that they made a mistake and asked about APS-C.
 
I never said they mistakenly inquired about an APS-C shutter. Rather, they misunderstood the nature, or conditions, of the price quote given to them.

Here is the statement from REFLEX:

The issue lies in the fact that, unlike not very long ago when the industry standard was 35mm over digital and full frame shutter units were common and mass-produced, today these units are reserved for mostly high-end models. So with production at only a fraction of what it once was, this means that demand and supply also dropped, leaving only one or two manufacturers worldwide. Our main mistake was made at the pre-Kickstarter stage; To get a realistic idea for off-the-shelf component costing, we went down the route of requesting quotes from sellers that supply parts for repair and service centers, as they can be bought in bulk and often come straight from the manufacturer. While in this case we don’t suspect bad intentions on the seller's part (since we had used once of their samples in the prototype), the shutter units became unavailable to us in large quantity once we were ready to order after DFM was finished. While at first sight many other sellers seemed to have access to service parts, and we felt reassured by our quotes, it turned out the supply chain has become so extremely limited, that no-one was able to help us with a substantial order.
Click to expand...
 
You said:
"Yet, if I read their website correctly, the price quote given to them on shutters was for a large volume of the type of shutters used with digital APS-C sized sensors."
And they did not even say the quote they have been given was on APS. You thought so.
 
Yes, I did infer that. I will accept being mistaken in my interpretation of what they wrote. However, their "rookie mistake" was in not obtaining a definitive price quote for exactly what they needed and in the projected quantities.

As an engineer, I have had to work with the procurement department in my company on many millions of units (parts) - a mistake such as made by REFLEX would've been extremely serious.
 
Actually, they needed more than a quote. They needed a contract.
 
But you were an expert hired to do decent work.

With the Reflex team so far we do not know whether this was planned as fake or was something like "Guys why not make a new SLR, in times of Kickstarter that should be viable, in any case without risk for us". Though whether this all is without risk for the entrepeneurs is still to show.
 
If it seems I am upset with the REFLEX team, I'm really not. I hope it does not appear that I'm saying to them, "you should have known better", because I don't mean that. I think they truly wanted to produce something new for the photo community and have fun doing it. Unfortunately, they needed someone working with them that had experience in manufacturing some sort of product from start to finish; someone who had been through the types of issues they've encountered. Ultimately, I do wish them success - though perhaps this project has been very stressful for them.
 
Theo Sulphate said:
If it seems I am upset with the REFLEX team, I'm really not. I hope it does not appear that I'm saying to them, "you should have known better", because I don't mean that. I think they truly wanted to produce something new for the photo community and have fun doing it. Unfortunately, they needed someone working with them that had experience in manufacturing some sort of product from start to finish; someone who had been through the types of issues they've encountered. Ultimately, I do wish them success - though perhaps this project has been very stressful for them.
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No doubt.
I do not think any of them are "Scammers".....unfortunately it seems neither were they manufactures.
They seem to have no experience in this type of endeavor. Just a bunch of photo-enthusiasts that got caught up in the whole Film Thing.....wishing there was a new camera to buy, etc etc
Tucker got his cars built faster than these guys are producing a camera. :smile:
 
I don't think they are scammers per se. They are at the minimum naive and I will just leave it as that. I think this is a sad case of users not doing their diligence. Just because someone has a KickStarter, it does not mean that the plan is sound. There will be angry people for sure.
 
Hey, after almost 3 years they got a PCB made. How long until they go bankrupt (if they haven't by now) and blame ''the difficult times we are all going through''?.
 
Thank you for the update. I already forgot about that whole project.
 
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If I remember this thread right(!), then so far there only are some design ideas, some mock-ups of the cameras and of their own lenses and now that circuit board.
 
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AgX said:
If I remember right (!) this thread right, then so far there only are some design ideas, some mock-ups of the cameras and of their own lenses and now that circuit board.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they had issues with pretty much everything. They also bought the wrong size of shutters (how do they even operate them if they didn't even have PCBs) and kept talking instead about a pancake 40mm, that went quiet too. I regularly check to see how long they plan on continuing with the joke.
 
Kickstarter Project closed - Money gone


One of the Project founders now stated that they collected 154,000€. But that they spent all this money without yielding a functioning camera.
 
AgX said:
Kickstarter Project closed - Money gone


One of the Project founders now stated that they collected 154,000€. But that they spent all this money without yielding a functioning camera.
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I forgot about this.
They sure talked it up a lot.
C'est La Vie
 
mshchem said:
Bulls*it artists. Future politicians. :smile:
Click to expand...
:smile:I certainly do not know if that is the situation. It may very well feel that way to the people that gave them money on faith.
I remember watching some of their videos, and they "projected" confidence that the team of people they had assembled would be able to make a new 35mm SLR.
Not sure if they ever produced a prototype or not.

I also remember them fielding questions like...........
where are you getting a shutter from
have you guys ever built a camera, or worked in the camera industry
how much will this cost
will it meter naturally with any brand of lens

As i recall, their biggest Doubts/Problems were
sourcing a reliable shutter
and having Stop-Down metering with every lens

Even if they had produced them, i do not think Stop-down metering would have been of much benefit.
They might have been better off to simply exclude a meter.

Perhaps their passion got the better of them.? :wondering:
 
They where inexcusably naive about the whole thing. Or they committed an elaborate scam.
Anyone with half an eye and even just a cursory knowledge of manufacturing and the mechanics of SLRs could have told you that from day one.

That is however exactly what you write up for with kickstarters. You should never ever see it as anything more than a small lark.
Don’t even hope. Fully expect it to be an amusing crash and burn that you are sponsoring.

A simple, modern 120 folder would have made sense though.
 
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Helge said:
They where inexcusably naive about the whole thing. Or they committed and elaborate scam.
Anyone with half an eye and even just a cursory knowledge of manufacturing and the mechanics of SLRs could have told you that from day one.

That is however exactly what you write up for with kickstarters. You should never ever see it as anything more than a small lark.
Don’t even hope. Fully expect it to be an amusing crash and burn that you are sponsoring.

A simple, modern 120 folder would have made sense though.
Click to expand...
Do you think that would have been easier than a 35mm SLR.?
I am NOT a camera Tech or Manufacturer.
I was wondering if an electronic shutter would have made more sense than a mechanical one.
Actually.....i cannot remember for sure.....i do not know if they ever Specified or talked about what type shutter they planned on using :wondering:
 
CMoore said:
Do you think that would have been easier than a 35mm SLR.?
Click to expand...
A tonne. Folders are quite simple.

Bladed shutters can be made simply and reliably, doubling as aperture driven by magnetic actuators. No complex mechanism and timing.

Needn’t even have been a folder. A wide angle solid bodied flat camera would have been even simpler.
 
Copal were still making leaf shutters until 2013, so one must assume the ability is there somewhere. I would hazard a guess that a 120 folder might be easier than a 35mm SLR but that's going to be a very small market, surely? Most of the photography students and people aspiring to do something other than lomography are looking for an SLR.

Thinking of Lomography, does any of their cameras have decent shutters with multiple speeds and apertures? I guess Seagull are still making TLRs. So a leaf shutter camera is not impossible.
 
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