New Reflex camera

[Bill Burk]

I wish them well.

I can guess one reason why a 1/4000 top speed is needed.

People will be using it stopped down, so the natural tendency will be to keep the aperture wide open.

 

[CropDusterMan]

I don't really understand the point. For those wanting to shoot film, there are a gazillion options out there, boatloads
of good used cameras and lenses. I love seeing the film processing tank re-designs and such, but this one...? Yawn.
On the other hand, anyone who's down to promote film photography will benefit us all.

 

[Agulliver]

I don't really understand the point. For those wanting to shoot film, there are a gazillion options out there, boatloads
of good used cameras and lenses. I love seeing the film processing tank re-designs and such, but this one...? Yawn.
On the other hand, anyone who's down to promote film photography will benefit us all.

Your argument is exactly what the super 8 film shooters said in the 90s, or the audio cassette crowd said in in the early 2000s...."there are so many working used (cameras, decks), we don't need a new one".....then came the time when the used machinery that actually worked dried up....the technicians to repair them retired or died....and no manufacturer still had the ability to make new equipment. Keeping some sort of 35mm SLR in production, keeping the skills and machinery needed to make them....is vital not necessarily for 2018/2019 but for 2025, 2030 and beyond.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Lately I think there's been a trend to make photos in bright sunlight with the lens wide open - the Quest for Bokeh, &c. So that aspect, coupled with people from the d-world used to ISO's around 3200, has conditioned some people to view 1/4000 as a speed quite ordinary for being able to produce the images they want. Perhaps these aspects are why the founders of REFLEX thought 1/4000 was a reasonable upper limit.

Then there are us old folk, for whom the 25 ASA of Kodachrome II or 32 ASA of Panatomic X was normal; we had to shoot nearly wide open on any cloudy day with "fast" (1/125) shutter speeds.

 

[Agulliver]

Lately I think there's been a trend to make photos in bright sunlight with the lens wide open - the Quest for Bokeh, &c. So that aspect, coupled with people from the d-world used to ISO's around 3200, has conditioned some people to view 1/4000 as a speed quite ordinary for being able to produce the images they want. Perhaps these aspects are why the founders of REFLEX thought 1/4000 was a reasonable upper limit.

Then there are us old folk, for whom the 25 ASA of Kodachrome II or 32 ASA of Panatomic X was normal; we had to shoot nearly wide open on any cloudy day with "fast" (1/125) shutter speeds.

You might be onto something. I've noticed recently, here and elsewhere, a lot of people who seem to have caught the photography bug in the last 15-20 years seem to think it's impossible to hand hold photos when using ISO under 800. I've seen people say/post thing like "It's impossible to shoot FP4+ without a tripod". I learned on Kodacolor 80ASA then 100ASA with no light meter in a country which rarely sees truly bright sunshine (UK). It certainly can be done with shutter speeds 1/500 or under.

 

[abruzzi]

You might be onto something. I've noticed recently, here and elsewhere, a lot of people who seem to have caught the photography bug in the last 15-20 years seem to think it's impossible to hand hold photos when using ISO under 800. I've seen people say/post thing like "It's impossible to shoot FP4+ without a tripod". I learned on Kodacolor 80ASA then 100ASA with no light meter in a country which rarely sees truly bright sunshine (UK). It certainly can be done with shutter speeds 1/500 or under.

Funny. I've handheld RPX 25 with an orange filter (EI 6). (ƒ4, 1/125 or ƒ2.8 1/250 on a bright sunny day IIRC.) Granted, we have almost nothing but bright sunny days here, and I'm shooting 6x4.5.

 

[pentaxuser]

Funny. I've handheld RPX 25 with an orange filter (EI 6).

This particular combo may be one thing in New Mex as in N. Mexico,U.S. in July but quite another in Old Mex as in Mexborough, England in say December

pentaxuser

 

[Agulliver]

Oh I've handheld Efke KB25 in cloudy weather at f4 at 1/15 second quite happily....but you'd think that was impossible to read some people's experiences. When I was learning I was told that 1/60 was the usual shutter speed to aim for without something steadying the camera, with 1/30 being marginal. Just imagine all those old box cameras with shutter speeds around 1/40.

I think there's something in the notion that people who have learned on digital cameras with high ISO are not used to requiring a steady hand, or to shutter speeds below 1/250

 

[Anon Ymous]

Oh I've handheld Efke KB25 in cloudy weather at f4 at 1/15 second quite happily....but you'd think that was impossible to read some people's experiences. When I was learning I was told that 1/60 was the usual shutter speed to aim for without something steadying the camera, with 1/30 being marginal. Just imagine all those old box cameras with shutter speeds around 1/40.

I think there's something in the notion that people who have learned on digital cameras with high ISO are not used to requiring a steady hand, or to shutter speeds below 1/250

While the digital crowd may be a bit obsessed with high ISO sensitivity and/or shutter speeds, they likely do so because they can easily pixel peep, thus reveal even the slightest camera shake. Is it really that problematic? Well, not really, a reasonably sized print wouldn't show much camera shake, if any at all and it would be at least passable. In my experience, if I use the reciprocal rule, then I will likely have no problem, but realistically a 1 stop slower speed would be the absolute limit. I'd go as low as 1/25 with a 50mm lens, going any slower will show very obvious shake.

 

[AgX]

Lowest shutter speed very much depends on ergonomics of the camera. And respective training. Though some bad ergonomics is hard to counter by training.
I see these ergonomics all over the field and thus it would be hard to give a standard advice beyond that reciprocal rule.

 

[cmacd123]

one point is that in the 60s we were generally using an SLR with a f2.8 or brighter lens. DSLR folks are used to having a f3.5-5.6 variable aperture zoom. So ASA 1600 to them is almost what Tri-X was to us. I have run into this since I got an EOS film camera. A canon Rebel Ti (AKA 300V) is very light, very quick and very easy to use, but the standard lens is an f 4 to 5.6 zoom

 

[Berkeley Mike]

one point is that in the 60s we were generally using an SLR with a f2.8 or brighter lens. DSLR folks are used to having a f3.5-5.6 variable aperture zoom. So ASA 1600 to them is almost what Tri-X was to us. I have run into this since I got an EOS film camera. A canon Rebel Ti (AKA 300V) is very light, very quick and very easy to use, but the standard lens is an f 4 to 5.6 zoom

We train shooters on Rebels with a 3.5-5.6 18-55 zoom. When we are out shooting I have a Fuji X100T with an f2 23 mm. That stop and a half is valuable and really changes what one can do. ISO 200 for tons of light. 400 for mixed, twilight and less 800-6400 with these lenses.

 

[Agulliver]

It's nice to have all those shutter speeds but really, I very rarely feel that my Prakticas with their 1/1000s shutters are requiring anything faster. The only time in recent years I can remember thinking "I wish that shutter fired faster" was when using my Kiev 6 with a 90mm lens that begun to stick and refuse to stop down in the middle of a roll of HP5+ that I was shooting at 640ISO. I'd been deliberately taking photos wide open inside a church lit only by the stained glass windows. Once outside in the sunshine I wanted to photograph a lake nearby and had to rely on the latitude of HP5+ and tolerance to over exposure shooting wide open at 1/500. Thankfully the HP5+ did a great job.

I have tended to shoot on the conservative side with digital, higher ISO than strictly necessary and under expose by 1/3 stop to prevent highlights blowing out. I guess if one learns on one of these devices....using high ISO and high shutter speed may well become habit.

For me personally, if I were looking at a film SLR, 1500 or 1/1000 would be fine. But the Reflex probably isn't aimed at me.

 

[BMbikerider]

The production of a new film camera was announced about 2 years ago and still no sign of it actually appearing. I get the feeling that any arguments are completely without need untill there is a lot more positive news.

Top shutter speed of 1/4000 whats wrong with that? I use 2 minoltas (XE1 and XM) with top speeds of 1/1000 and 1/2000 respectively, without a problem, there are too many gimmicks and hype that are intended to impress that unless you have the widest apperture lens or the fastest shutter speed you are 'oh so yesterday' and your pictures will be rubbish. That hype is actually the rubbish!

Look at what Digital cameras have become. Apart from techie nuts, who actually uses all the gimmicks that come packaged with the latest models? I am quite happy with my Nikon D300s and D700 with 'only' 12mp and a processor that is out of the dark ages. I can still make a perfectly acceptable A3 print that is sharp and well exposed. Ask yourself why are so many new models produced at rapid intervals - simply for the manufacturers to make money out of the customer.

 

[Ste_S]

You might be onto something. I've noticed recently, here and elsewhere, a lot of people who seem to have caught the photography bug in the last 15-20 years seem to think it's impossible to hand hold photos when using ISO under 800. I've seen people say/post thing like "It's impossible to shoot FP4+ without a tripod". I learned on Kodacolor 80ASA then 100ASA with no light meter in a country which rarely sees truly bright sunshine (UK). It certainly can be done with shutter speeds 1/500 or under.

Hyperbole much ? Depends on the season and what you're shooting.
Quite happily shoot FP4 handheld in the UK summer for street photography, in the UK winter it's HP5 or Tri-X pushed to 1600 all day long.

 

[BMbikerider]

Hyperbole much ? Depends on the season and what you're shooting.
Quite happily shoot FP4 handheld in the UK summer for street photography, in the UK winter it's HP5 or Tri-X pushed to 1600 all day long.

Exactly! (although I don't use any film apart from FP4+)

 

[R.Gould]

I can't see any need for shutter speeds above 1/1000 sec, In fact I only have 2 cameras with 1/1000 or above, one is my Leica IIIf, the other my newly bought Kiev, which has 1/1250, I have one other camera with a FP shutter, my Fed 2, top speed 1/500, every other camera that I use has either a Compur shutter, or a Peontor shutter (top speed on Prontor 1/300 and Compur 1/5000) and I have yet to yearn for faster shutters, I use either Fomapan 400 or 200, as far as handholding goes, no problem down to 1/2 second, I do a fair amount of low light work in the summer, for landscape/seascape photos I always have an orange filter attached, I can't remember the last time I used a faster speed than 1/500.

 

[Ste_S]

I can't see any need for shutter speeds above 1/1000 sec

*Shrugs* I use the 1/8000s on my Nikon F4 or F801 from time to time. Coupled with a fast lens and film it gives me a near digital flexibility in what I can shoot.

 

[Agulliver]

Not hyperbole, in that I do frequently come across people online and offline who are very sceptical about the possibility of using anything slower than 400ISO without a tripod.... The idea that this could be because they're used to the luxury of being able to shoot at higher ISO's with high shutter speeds on digital cameras is worthy of examination.

Hyperbole? Where?

 

[AgX]

I too got only one camera model which goes beyond the 1/1000sec. But a lot that only go to 1/500sec or below.

 

[Meyer Trioplan]

Though only a few of my film cameras offer the 4000 (or 8000) speeds, I definitely see their usefulness, such as shooting shallow depth of field images in a dew laden meadow awash with sun on 100 speed transparency film. Having a 1000 top speed would limit you to around f/5.6 while 4000 can let you open up to 2.8 without any compensating ND filter, making a pretty vast difference in how the shot is rendered.

 

[AgX]

Back to the main topic:
How long in the past big manufacturers have needed to raise up shutter speed?
Not even to yield a short exposure time as such, but more important to yield a shorter exposure time in flash mode with focal plane shutters.

For the less technical minded:
The AE-1 was the first digitally controlled camera, but still had a cloth shutter with 1/1000sec and a sync of 1/60. And the whole A-series kept this shutter for 11 years.
In focal plane shutters shorter exposure times cannot be achieved by endlessly narrowing the slit, but it is necesary to speed up shutter movements and controls.


The question now is, can the achieved technology advance be implemented by lay people in a from-scratch design and manufacture?
And even within few months, or to be more precise in more than a half a year.

 

[Richard Man]

Actually, back to the OP: what's the realistic chance of someone with no camera/shutter experience design and manufacture a production-quality unit?

That has always been my question, when they emphasis how cool it is that they can run the software with an Arduino.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Another area of inexperience was in procurement. For a 35mm film camera, they needed a shutter large enough to accommodate the 24x36mm image size. Yet, if I read their website correctly, the price quote given to them on shutters was for a large volume of the type of shutters used with digital APS-C sized sensors. When they realized their volume was lower and needed full frame coverage, the price was naturally much higher.

Rookie mistake.

 

[AgX]

Well, in this case I actuallly have to come to the defence of these people:
In no way they stated they the had inquired about an APS shutter module. They only stated that today full frame shutters are only applied at high-end cameras.

You understand they had inqired on bulk sales. From their statement however it seems they did not inquire on bulk sales at all, or not seriously enough.