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New Policy: Leaving APUG 'Grand Exit' Announcements - Banned

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jd callow

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I would say give the guys and guys who want to leave a break and let them talk. If anyone wants to leave APUG let them have their say on the way out. In fact, I would favor creating a special forum for the departing to contain the discussion. If prominent members of APUG are leaving, for whatever reason, let's hear why. How can that hurt the forum?


Sandy King
Off the top of my head...
1) The site is not about one person;
2) the site has multiple feedback mechanisms;
3) by saying 'good by' and then hammering away at the site or a group of members the poster is simply retaliating -- not trying to improve the site or its membership;
4) the site does not force anyone to be here;
5) it is never photo related and always negative;
6) as the site has grown so has the number of contentious posts and posters. Moderators and especially Sean receive a fair amount of complaints about these people. This is an effort to minimize the damage they cause.


It has nothing to do with being prominent or not. Or if it does it is mostly tilted toward the not prominent -- the 17,000 plus people who don't post.

We've had a number of people quit by PM. Some very excellent people. When folks leave via pm 9 out of 10 times they give excellent constructive feedback. When people make their Grand Exit 10 out of 10 times it involves an attack or turns in to one or both.
 

Dinesh

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Well John,

I do have to say your one of the best comics I have ever read on an internet forum.

Dave

Am I missing something? I'm not sure I follow you.
 

sanking

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If people want to leave this forum voluntarily, whether prominent or not, there should be a thread where they can express why, IMO. Not for their benefit, but for the benefit of the folks who remain. This would be an appropriate mechanism for a site that is about many people, not the one, because the many want to be a part of the organization and understand the reason for major decisions.

Folks who are kicked off the list for violating policy should not have any right to further bother the list.

Sandy King




Off the top of my head...
1) The site is not about one person;
2) the site has multiple feedback mechanisms;
3) by saying 'good by' and then hammering away at the site or a group of members the poster is simply retaliating -- not trying to improve the site or its membership;
4) the site does not force anyone to be here;
5) it is never photo related and always negative;
6) as the site has grown so has the number of contentious posts and posters. Moderators and especially Sean receive a fair amount of complaints about these people. This is an effort to minimize the damage they cause.


It has nothing to do with being prominent or not. Or if it does it is mostly tilted toward the not prominent -- the 17,000 plus people who don't post.

We've had a number of people quit by PM. Some very excellent people. When folks leave via pm 9 out of 10 times they give excellent constructive feedback. When people make their Grand Exit 10 out of 10 times it involves an attack or turns in to one or both.
 

jd callow

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If people want to leave this forum voluntarily, whether prominent or not, there should be a thread where they can express why, IMO. Not for their benefit, but for the benefit of the folks who remain. This would be an appropriate mechanism for a site that is about many people, not the one, because the many want to be a part of the organization and understand the reason for major decisions.

Folks who are kicked off the list for violating policy should not have any right to further bother the list.

Sandy King

In the abstract I agree with you. In practice it hasn't worked out that way here or elsewhere. The people who have made intelligent, thoughtful comments upon their exits seem always to do them quietly, with class and often to the stakeholder(s) Sean and or the Mods.

They knew that the message held little value with a wider audience. Messages are often things like: I'm leaving because I personally can not accept or do not feel I should have to accept <fill-in the blank>.

When said in private to Sean or a moderator action may be able to be taken. When said in public every one who does accept <fill in the blank> goes ballistic or takes offence and nothing good comes of it.

Good examples on the value of the grand exit can be found on photo net. I lurked and posted there for years -- back when it was small and enjoyable. Although, I was entertained and often agreed with the grand exit posts I doubt there was one that was not an attack of some kind or that didn't degenerate into an ugly thread. The fact that I began to agree with more and more of them was an indication that it was time for me to leave the site.

If anyone wishes to leave the site, we, the moderators and Sean, want to know about it. If the membership wants to know why people have left I think we could consider building an area where the reasons can be listed, but where comments can not be left. We would need to edit it to the point where the information might be a bit thin. Many people leave because other people have been (in their mind and maybe in truth) given too much leeway. Many people leave because of the religious war (BTZS, Zone, Anti BTZS or Zone and a dozen other concepts and cameras) zealots. Many people leave because the rules are not followed, there are too many rules or that the place is a free for all with not nearly enough rules.

Sadly, seldom are there grand, intelligent, nuanced, differences between what the site is and what the poster wants.
 
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MattKing

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I think it useful and important to know when and why someone with, for example, more than 5500 posts here, decides that something about what is happening here makes it preferable or necessary for him/her to leave.

A "Grand Exit" announcement is one thing. An expression of carefully thought out concern, informed by much useful experience here, is a different thing indeed.

Matt
 

jd callow

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Matt,
If it happens that a person of any post amount is leaving and has written a thoughtful constructive exit post they can contact Sean or a Mod. We are shutting the door on Grand Exits.
 

removed account4

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"grand exits" seem like are going to happen whether they are here on apug, or somewhere else where people mention apug by name ... several months ago there was a discussion on photo.net regarding elitism, harshness and "the star chamber" where several people who left "here" added their 2¢ as to why they left and strangely enough that thread was removed from photo.net, and references to it were removed from here.

i understand they will not be tolerated here ( and it doesn't really bother me ), but are they going to be searched for on other sites, and removed from there too?

john
 

jd callow

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"grand exits" seem like are going to happen whether they are here on apug, or somewhere else where people mention apug by name ... several months ago there was a discussion on photo.net regarding elitism, harshness and "the star chamber" where several people who left "here" added their 2¢ as to why they left and strangely enough that thread was removed from photo.net, and references to it were removed from here.

i understand they will not be tolerated here ( and it doesn't really bother me ), but are they going to be searched for on other sites, and removed from there too?

john

John,
We don't have any control over what other people say on other sites.
 
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Sean

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Some in this thread seem to think we are out to get the minority, this is not the case. I often work hard to compromise for the wishes of the minority and the minority have always had a voice here. Those dozen or so who are never happy with and never will be happy with apug are not the "minority" on apug.
 

bjorke

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The Grand Exit is common all over the web.

Here's the funny part that I've come to realize: they always come back.

Often quietly, under a different name, but... yeah.
 

jd callow

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The Grand Exit is common all over the web.

Here's the funny part that I've come to realize: they always come back.

Often quietly, under a different name, but... yeah.

Yes they do...
 

severian

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blansky is a better read even when he is whining

Yeah, I'd much rather read a Blansky colon cleansing story than an "Im offended" diatribe

Severian, Autarch of Urth, Journeyman in the Society of the Seekers of Truth and Penitence
 

Robert Brummitt

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ell I'm not leaving and you are stuck with me forever! HA!

I love reading and sharing what you all have to say about photography. We, all my not agree with one and another but that is life. As the lead of a photography group here in Portland. I have to deal with a micro version of what Sean deals with and I tip my hat to him and to the moderators.
Apug is a wonderful tool for me. A great source of information and I always tell people that I meet to check out the site. Join if they can and spread the word out. If they are into digital? I tell them of Apugs sister site, Hybridphoto.
So let those folks just drop off. I never read why. I'm always not in the "Know" anyways.
Its their decision and their lost as I see it. I haven't stopped enjoying the gallery, the chat room and the classifieds. I love photography and I will never lose that love. I'll never leave it.
Thank you.
Robert Brummitt
robert8x10
PPF:smile:
 

Robert Brummitt

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Well I'm not leaving and you are stuck with me forever! HA!

I love reading and sharing what you all have to say about photography. We, all may not agree with one and another but that is life. As the lead of a photography group here in Portland. I have to deal with a micro version of what Sean deals with and I tip my hat to him and to the moderators.
Apug is a wonderful tool for me. A great source of information and I always tell people that I meet to check out the site. Join if they can and spread the word out. If they are into digital? I tell them of Apugs sister site, Hybridphoto.
So let those folks just drop off. I never read why. I'm always not in the "Know" anyways.
Its their decision and their lost as I see it. I haven't stopped enjoying the gallery, the chat room and the classifieds. I love photography and I will never lose that love. I'll never leave it.
Thank you.
Robert Brummitt
robert8x10
PPF:smile:
 

BruceN

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Hear, hear!

I love reading and sharing what you all have to say about photography. We, all may not agree with one and another but that is life. As the lead of a photography group here in Portland. I have to deal with a micro version of what Sean deals with and I tip my hat to him and to the moderators.
Apug is a wonderful tool for me. A great source of information and I always tell people that I meet to check out the site. Join if they can and spread the word out. If they are into digital? I tell them of Apugs sister site, Hybridphoto.
So let those folks just drop off. I never read why. I'm always not in the "Know" anyways.
Its their decision and their lost as I see it. I haven't stopped enjoying the gallery, the chat room and the classifieds. I love photography and I will never lose that love. I'll never leave it.
Thank you.
Robert Brummitt
robert8x10
PPF:smile:
 
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Sean

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whew!

for a second there i thought there was some sort of a multi-site conspiracy! :wink:
Well I figure photo.net probably delete quite a lot of content daily, it's in their terms of use:

"We reserve the right to delete anything that has been uploaded to the site. A sufficient reason for a moderator to delete a posting is "didn't think it was interesting." A moderator may be replaced, but never second-guessed or argued with."
 

David Brown

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Is it just me?

Surely I'm not the only one who sees the irony that this thread about no more certain threads is up to 13 pages. :surprised:

We have got to get lives, people! :D
 

jd callow

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Well I figure photo.net probably delete quite a lot of content daily, it's in their terms of use:

"We reserve the right to delete anything that has been uploaded to the site. A sufficient reason for a moderator to delete a posting is "didn't think it was interesting." A moderator may be replaced, but never second-guessed or argued with."

Sean,
With on slight change can we have the samething:
A sufficient reason for a moderator to delete a posting is "didn't think it was interesting." A moderator will never be replaced, and never second-guessed or argued with.​
 

Dave Parker

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Sean,
With on slight change can we have the samething:
A sufficient reason for a moderator to delete a posting is "didn't think it was interesting." A moderator will never be replaced, and never second-guessed or argued with.​

There ya go, Democracy in action! Kind of goes along the lines of why the reason I deleted my messages last night and "Someone" changed my reason......?

I have come to the conclusion, it is like arguing with a Police Officer, you may be right, but your never going to win..

:surprised:
 
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