New Layoffs at Eastman Kodak

RattyMouse · Oct 16, 2014

I didn't see this mentioned here. Two weeks ago Kodak laid off more people, with the reason given due to declining film sales. There has been a 90% drop in motion picture film sales this year alone. This is a staggering drop in demand. The article also reports that the much publicized effort by Hollywood directors to save Kodak is falling through, with only one studio signing on, not five.

http://rochester.twcnews.com/content/news/773736/kodak-layoffs--some-70-rochester-area-jobs-will-be-cut/

NB23 · Oct 16, 2014

Eastman still alive?

wildbill · Oct 16, 2014

Count on rattymouse for bringing us all the cheerful news.

RattyMouse · Oct 16, 2014

wildbill said:
Count on rattymouse for bringing us all the cheerful news.

Right, because ignorance about life's situations is always preferred to knowledge.

RattyMouse · Oct 16, 2014

wildbill said:
Count on rattymouse for bringing us all the cheerful news.

Did you launch a personal attack on PE when he posted the same news from other Kodak layoffs?

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Your comment fits right in with a very small select group here who "think" (and I use that term VERY generously) I have some agenda against Kodak, that I only post negative about Kodak. This is of course to the thinking person, abject nonsense.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I ENJOY discussions about the photochemistry industry. I come to a forum, DEVOTED to talk about said industry. This industry has good days and bad days, good news and not so good news. ALL news on this topic is valid for this forum.

A select few love to rant and slander people who discuss the trials and tribulations of Kodak. If my words are so harmful to you and others in this tiny group, then show that you have some credibility and PLACE ME ON IGNORE. Once done, PROBLEM SOLVED.

It is an irrefutable fact that Kodak layoffs within their film division is ON TOPIC to this forum. Deal with it like an adult.

Ektagraphic · Oct 17, 2014

Well, I'll just hope that by some act of the gods Kodak holds in the way that Fuji still is manufacturing film without having motion picture products. In the mean time, while Kodak is still selling film, I shall be buying it an enjoying it!

Xmas · Oct 17, 2014

The Greeks used to shoot the person who brought the message.
If they did not like it.
Maybe this will be off topic...

Im sorry about the Kodak workers.

RattyMouse · Oct 17, 2014

Ektagraphic said:
Well, I'll just hope that by some act of the gods Kodak holds in the way that Fuji still is manufacturing film without having motion picture products. In the mean time, while Kodak is still selling film, I shall be buying it an enjoying it!

I've always wondered how Fujifilm stays in the film business after shutting down their motion picture film line. That really is a mystery.

alanrockwood · Oct 17, 2014

Posing unpleasant or unfavorable news about the photo industry is considered bad form among a certain segment of APUG users. They would much prefer to put on their rose colored glasses and read only glowing accounts rather than a collection of more varied facts and opinions. Unfortunately, some of those same people also feel it is their task censure others who may take a different approach.

Whether that's a good or bad thing, I leave it to your to decide. I'm just commenting on the way it is.

PKM-25 · Oct 17, 2014

alanrockwood said:
Posing unpleasant or unfavorable news about the photo industry is considered bad form among a certain segment of APUG users. They would much prefer to put on their rose colored glasses and read only glowing accounts rather than a collection of more varied facts and opinions. Unfortunately, some of those same people also feel it is their task censure others who may take a different approach.

It's not even about that, this is news and this report kind of paints more the picture which is not good. Like it or not, if Kodak stops making film, it affects the public perception of *all* film and the result is likely that it affects *all* film makers. I can not do a damn thing about Kodak's overall coating operation falling below threshold, neither can anyone here. But in the meantime, the film is outstanding and so is the QC, so I see no reason to keep whipping out a 8" thick steel rod and constantly beating Kodak with it.

I mean -90% of projected in a single fiscal year? That sucks, I am not sure where to invest, Ilford 16x20 film or some more 4x5 Tmax which I feel are...kinda equal...

Maybe I have another few years to use it and stock up even more, maybe we all do but dude....the track record of the OP, AGX, Xmas and others to pounce on this stuff like a cat is just sickening man...that is not photography at all and it is not at all helping Ilford, Ferrania etc.

Losing Kodak film WILL result in losing things beyond Kodak....

RattyMouse · Oct 17, 2014

APUGuser19 said:
Fujifilm stays in business the same way I do--they invest in the Chinese stock market. No secret.

LOL....The Shanghai stock market is in a veritable depression. Or at least it was. I havent checked in the last few months.....I watched my coworkers here in Shanghai lose their fortunes many times over as the stock market crashed and burned hard.

RattyMouse · Oct 17, 2014

PKM-25 said:
It's not even about that, this is news and this report kind of paints more the picture which is not good. Like it or not, if Kodak stops making film, it affects the public perception of *all* film and the result is likely that it affects *all* film makers. I can not do a damn thing about Kodak's overall coating operation falling below threshold, neither can anyone here. But in the meantime, the film is outstanding and so is the QC, so I see no reason to keep whipping out a 8" thick steel rod and constantly beating Kodak with it.

I mean -90% of projected in a single fiscal year? That sucks, I am not sure where to invest, Ilford 16x20 film or some more 4x5 Tmax which I feel are...kinda equal...

Maybe I have another few years to use it and stock up even more, maybe we all do but dude....the track record of the OP, AGX, Xmas and others to pounce on this stuff like a cat is just sickening man...that is not photography at all and it is not at all helping Ilford, Ferrania etc.

Losing Kodak film WILL result in losing things beyond Kodak....

Did you call up Rochester News and Studio Daily and rant to them to keep quiet about the state of film today? I trust you understand that THEY get the word out far more than APUG ever can. You constantly berate APUG as being utterly insignificant and then when you see a post YOU dont like, you rant on about how we are poisoning teh reputation of film. Which is it? You cant have it both ways.

I had NO IDEA that Kodak's film business was down 90% this year alone. That was NEWS to me and I wanted to discuss in a film industry forum. YOU, who does NOT want to hear this news.....browse a FILM INDUSTRY FORUM.

If you dont want to hear this news then stay out of the frick'en forum!

RattyMouse · Oct 17, 2014

alanrockwood said:
Posing unpleasant or unfavorable news about the photo industry is considered bad form among a certain segment of APUG users. They would much prefer to put on their rose colored glasses and read only glowing accounts rather than a collection of more varied facts and opinions. Unfortunately, some of those same people also feel it is their task censure others who may take a different approach.

Whether that's a good or bad thing, I leave it to your to decide. I'm just commenting on the way it is.

I personally feel that we should be free to discuss ON TOPIC subjects in the appropriate forum without worry of censure.

Thankfully, the moderators side firmly on the voice of reason (and logic).

PKM-25 · Oct 17, 2014

RattyMouse said:
Did you call up Rochester News and Studio Daily and rant to them to keep quiet about the state of film today? I trust you understand that THEY get the word out far more than APUG ever can. You constantly berate APUG as being utterly insignificant and then when you see a post YOU dont like, you rant on about how we are poisoning teh reputation of film. Which is it? You cant have it both ways.

I had NO IDEA that Kodak's film business was down 90% this year alone. That was NEWS to me and I wanted to discuss in a film industry forum. YOU, who does NOT want to hear this news.....browse a FILM INDUSTRY FORUM.

If you dont want to hear this news then stay out of the frick'en forum!

Ummm....LOL...I said above that this topic is *news*, not you or I will find a bucket of fine T-grained sand deep enough to hide from it. So for a moment....think of this: If you did not have the track record you do of adding a dollop of Kodak-doom-mascarpone to every industry dish on the APUG menu, I might have even thanked you for the update Broseph.

It is what it is and most every industry topic on here has the word "Code-Ack" shoehorned in it somewhere. Count your blessings sir, most folks are like Vinny and stay quiet until the WTF gland shakes violently out of control for a moment.

And here I thought I was on your ignore list, xoxoxo

RattyMouse · Oct 17, 2014

PKM-25 said:
Ummm....LOL...I said above that this topic is *news*, not you or I will find a bucket of fine T-grained sand deep enough to hide from it. So for a moment....think of this: If you did not have the track record you do of adding a dollop of Kodak-doom-mascarpone to every industry dish on the APUG menu, I might have even thanked you for the update Broseph.

It is what it is and most every industry topic on here has the word "Koh-Dak" shoehorned in it somewhere. Count your blessings sir, most folks are like Vinny and stay quiet until the WTF gland shakes violently out of control for a moment.

And here I thought I was on your ignore list, xoxoxo

Nope, don't use it.

Track record? LOL....hilarious.

Xmas · Oct 17, 2014

PKM-25 said:
Maybe I have another few years to use it and stock up even more, maybe we all do but dude....the track record of the OP, AGX, Xmas and others to pounce on this stuff like a cat is just sickening man...that is not photography at all and it is not at all helping Ilford, Ferrania etc.

Losing Kodak film WILL result in losing things beyond Kodak....

There is an ignore button somewhere.

You are not helping Ilford, Foma, Adox, by buying Kodak. Normally I don't buy (or use) Kodak... Bought 800 foot of 5222 last year very poor QC won't buy again.

You are indeed correct that Kodaks announcements will have a knock on effect in the rest of the industry eg some c41 labs needing a new part will just stop instead, people invest on confidence, misplaced or not.

I will chide Ratty about you getting in on 'negative vibes' before him (and using capital lock). Who can you trust nowadays, or maybe some one has hacked your account?

PKM-25 · Oct 17, 2014

Ahhh phooey, I am just a photographer who uses the tools and materials I need to realize my vision and its resulting income, I am not worthy of you Ivy League industry types. I think I will have a tail sewn on my ass so I can put it between my legs...

I am looking forward to buying 100 sheets of FP4 in 16x20 though, yay me.

Xmas · Oct 17, 2014

RattyMouse said:
I had NO IDEA that Kodak's film business was down 90% this year alone. That was NEWS to me and I wanted to discuss in a film industry forum. YOU, who does NOT want to hear this news.....browse a FILM INDUSTRY FORUM.

You should not feed trolls.

Kodak as an large incorporated company are obliged to publish profit and loss account abstracts quarterly, audited independently... They are on the web for share holders.

I stopped reading them too depressive.

And I think you are incorrect cine is down at1st Oct from full years projection so it won't be 90% at year end necessarily, stills should be a lot better against projections though not too good. Kodak grew by being optimistic, I doubt they factored in Fugi dumping C41 or killing mono cept for Acros properly, the price of 30m bulk is indicative of carelessness.

Some of the reduction in cine may be attributed to the 15% hike across the cine (clapper) board 1st Jan14. Stopped me buying more. Would have killed all the lower budget people as well, they do trades film $ v ******* $.

Kodak were 90:10 cine:stills at peak (unlike Fuji) so stills was subsidized a lot in past.

The pay 'freeze' did not apply to all executives...

The 15% hike in cine just risible, for insiders...

railwayman3 · Oct 17, 2014

RattyMouse said:
I've always wondered how Fujifilm stays in the film business after shutting down their motion picture film line. That really is a mystery.

Fuji seem to play their cards close-to-their-chest........it may just be that their coating lines and supporting equipment is more suitable for smaller scale production,
without the need for costly conversions.

AgX · Oct 17, 2014

PKM-25 said:
...OP, AGX, Xmas and others to pounce on this stuff like a cat is just sickening man...that is not photography at all and it is not at all helping Ilford, Ferrania etc.

Here at Apug are a few people with a career in the photochemical industry. People who have put their effort in the scientific or economic part of the industry.

Partly even directly resulting in recently many jobs being created and millions in revenues.

Their assessments might turn out completely wrong, but still should be considered here.

MDR · Oct 17, 2014

Fuji is not and never was a pure film company they survive because they are part of a large conglomerate and because they now have a much more diversified portofolio than Kodak. Kodak is now mostly film and the graphic industry, Fuji on the other hand digitalcameras, very much in the medical market not only making x-ray film but also building medical instruments, etc, etc...

Film isn't that important to Fuji it's more of tradition that's it.

Xmas · Oct 17, 2014

MDR said:
Fuji is not and never was a pure film company they survive because they are part of a large conglomerate and because they now have a much more diversified portofolio than Kodak. Kodak is now mostly film and the graphic industry, Fuji on the other hand digitalcameras, very much in the medical market not only making x-ray film but also building medical instruments, etc, etc...

Film isn't that important to Fuji it's more of tradition that's it.

Too abstract e.g.

i) The famous quote at the start of the Somme offensive from the WWI forward observation officer as he looked at the Tommies advancing through smoke screen as the barrage crept in front was

'My god they have even brought their Kodak's with them'

he did not recognize their 'power buzzers'.

ii) Sir E Hillary and Tensing Norgay carried a Kodak Retina to the summit of Everest with them in '53.

Kodak were diversified into everything photographic from 19th century, buying out any competition, they failed on digital development whereas Fuji are nibbling Canon and Nikons %.

They also failed on film e.g. with Polaroid and Fuji paying dear in film market share at home and abroad, and legal dues. Lots of people use(d) Fuji mono in UK...

They needed to have bought Canon or Nikon in '59, when they were still cottage 'industries'.

MDR · Oct 17, 2014

Xmas Kodak was diversified but they killed off everything to concentrate on their core business, which under Perez was supposed to be printers before Perez the Motion Picture Industry. Digital Kodak invented the first digital camera and they did not fail on development sorry but on sales whereas Fuji hasn't really developed anything in the digital camera business except for a filter they put over their bought sensors and now call it X-trans. Fuji nibbling at Canon or Nikon sales I seriously doubt it Samsung and Apple are killing digital camera makers profits but Fuj not really. As for Nikon cottage industry they weren't they just didn't really build cameras but scientific and military optics.

Xmas · Oct 17, 2014

MDR said:
Xmas Kodak was diversified but they killed off everything to concentrate on their core business, which under Perez was supposed to be printers before Perez the Motion Picture Industry. Digital Kodak invented the first digital camera and they did not fail on development sorry but on sales whereas Fuji hasn't really developed anything in the digital camera business except for a filter they put over their bought sensors and now call it X-trans. Fuji nibbling at Canon or Nikon sales I seriously doubt it Samsung and Apple are killing digital camera makers profits but Fuj not really. As for Nikon cottage industry they weren't they just didn't really build cameras but scientific and military optics.

As a inc company their core business was making a profit, any way legal?
Yes I had one of their digital cameras it worked very well but it was the basic P&S Retinaette model, they never produced the Retina model, like a x100?
The motion picture industry went to digital Kodak did not lead or follow. They could have bought Arri?
They now account their basic printers 'legacy' products in their Inc accounts, bundled with film, as reducing turnover items hurting their bottom line.
The X100 and other X models are selling real well here. Yes every one has a mobile with two cameras, for selfies and hot news, but lots of people also have a DSLR or mirrorless, like a X100, for street or landscapes.
Before '59 neither Nikon nor Canon made high volume cameras they only just competed on sales with Leitz, post '59 they made volume cameras the F sold 750,000 or so, Canonets millions. Leitz never really made the transition to volume production whereas the Ja embraced Deming post WWII. The volume production made them big companies, numbers of staff numbers of factories, repair centres all over the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
Verichrome pan was a Wratten and Wainwright product, they bought the company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_discontinued_photographic_films#Kodak_Verichrome_Safety_Film
Land offered Kodak Polaroid they decided to ignore his patents instead, they payed 935 million USD to Land, see first sentence, they were lucky not to have to pay more.

PKM-25 · Oct 17, 2014

AgX said:
Here at Apug are a few people with a career in the photochemical industry. People who have put their effort in the scientific or economic part of the industry.

Partly even directly resulting in recently many jobs being created and millions in revenues.

Their assessments might turn out completely wrong, but still should be considered here.

Of course it is considered, but the level it is presented here....my god it is exhausting to see it just swallow up every industry topic, and it does. Some of you just don't let up...it's like you never even take a vacation, just constant doom and gloom mortar rounds, "Boom, Boom, BOOM!"

But you don't see how it wears people down, drives them away and worst of all, it's in a public part of the forum and the site admin just does not seem to give a flying film canister about. I have a thread going on doing some form of ULF reversal output and it is hardly of any interest compared to this kind of battleground crap.....I mean, how sad is that?

New Layoffs at Eastman Kodak

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