New Group: Photrio Photographic Arts Standards

Discussion in 'Photographic Aesthetics and Composition' started by markjwyatt, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    Photrio Photographic Arts Standards

    This group proposes the creation of a set of standards that can be used by Photrio members and encourage other to use to convey the nature of the photographic work they are presenting. An example of such standards are the f/64 group; though I am not proposing rigid standards of this type (there could be a class as such within the standards).

    The initial objective is to create a series of descriptions that can be used as tags on images on the internet, printed work, or wherever users want to use them. The purpose of the tags wold be to lead back to standards related to how images were created and post processed. The tags would indicate to the viewer in a non-judgemental way to what degree the image has fidelity to the original moment in time and space. It would help people decide for themselves whether the image meets their expectations for a photograph, a work of graphic arts, a composite image, etc.

    The idea would be to use the tags ourselves (on Flickr, photo-sharing sites, social media, print, what ever); have links to pages where the tags and the standards they represent are defined; to encourage other people to use the tags, and to lead them to the descriptions.

    The standards are not intended to define "real photography", rather give the public the information they need to understand how modified an image may be (analogous to food labeling).

    The tags could describe general classes of modification (say "Photrio Level1"). They could indicate specific features, e.g., "Photrio: Content added subtle", "Photrio Content added significant", "Photrio: Clouds added", etc. People with special interests could create standards for their own classes, e.g., "Photrio: f/64 digital equivalent".

    Clearly this is most useful for images ultimately distributed digitally, but could also be used for gallery prints etc. (say in the description).

    The proposal would be to create a committee/committees to start defining things, then create standards and tags. If such adequate standards already exist, we could adopt them.
     
  2. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    This will be interesting..

    Giclee means something to everyone, to the French is quite specific.
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    Sounds like a tag or two (and standards):

    "Photrio: Giclee"

    "Photrio: Giclee [ Giclee Printers Association (GPA)]"
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    Just to show I am serious, I just obtained the domain name: "Standards.Photography". If Photrio wants to take the lead on this, they could get a suitable domain, or make pages available to the group.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I'll join to disagree if needs be :D

    Just for the record I have a fine arts Masters Degree in Photography.

    Ian
     
  6. nmp

    nmp Member

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    How are you going to enforce these standards?
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    I would rather have you assist and lead :smile:
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    They will be strictly voluntary. I would suggest going to FLickr or other sites and comment on images you are curious and ask "which of these standards may apply to your image" along with a link to their descriptions. Subtle pressure but not coercion. We could even offer a tag "Photrio: Proprietary Methods" for those who do not want to reveal much.
     
  9. eddie

    eddie Subscriber

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    Why are standards important?
     
  10. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Voluntary, then why bother?

    Lets form a select committee to look into forming a feasibility study to consider thinking about investigating the idea to cogitate on scheduling a group to plan looking into to this idea!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  11. eddie

    eddie Subscriber

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    Ah.... government work...
     
  12. Billy Axeman

    Billy Axeman Subscriber

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    Good luck with it.
    I avoid standards all the time, they are hampering spontaneity and creativity.
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    Ask any of these guys: ASME, SAE, ASTM, NIST, SPIE, ... need I go on? Why is food ingredients labeling important (I agree it is not done well)?

    Maybe it is not to some people. To me, often I wonder about an image 'is it real'? Were the clouds added in PS? No one would (or could) be forced to use or even recognize the standards.
     
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  15. Willyekerslike

    Willyekerslike Member

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    I vote for this, with the proviso that they report in the next millennium.
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    We could create a tag for you "Photrio: Standards Averse"

    The idea is not to hamper creativity nor force anyone into any mold. The idea is to be more open to whatever degree the photographer/artist/etc. wants to be, and to make it easy to do so, as well as to get others interested in the photographic arts to ask artists to be more open.
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    Would you want to force an artist to adopt these or any standards? No one in the arts world is forced into a standard. Some artists may not be invited to participate in certain events/exhibitions/etc. without committing to meet standards, but this is still voluntary.
     
  18. Willyekerslike

    Willyekerslike Member

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    Standards in the food industries are important because peoples lives can depend on them......art is subjective......think anout it.
     
  19. nmp

    nmp Member

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    It can get intrusive and people do not like to submit to these kind of questioning unless they are entering a competition or sending the image to a newspaper for photojournalistic use. Probably Getty has such standards that you can look up.

    On the other hand, you can use a trademark to designate a methodology and allow people to subscribe to it or certify to it like USDA Organic or Grade A Large eggs, etc. For example "All Analog" "Digital but Natural" "No Clone Tool Used" or something like that....:smile:
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    Ok. There are standards in the arts also (e.g., Giclee Printers Association (GPA)). Safety is an important reason for standards, but not the only one. There are standards everywhere, not all formalized. Standards of dress, standards for tipping, standards for greeting people, etc. Formalizing standards only indicates there is a group of people who have some interest in doing so, and not only for the purposes of promoting health and safety.
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    That may be closer to what I see happening. To me it is about tagging, but then there are descriptions (like trademarks or certifications) that give the tags meat (i.e., standards).
     
  22. eddie

    eddie Subscriber

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    Standards are important to me when I buy film ( I want Ilford to be consistent in manufacturing standards), not in what I do with the film.
     
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    markjwyatt

    markjwyatt Subscriber

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    Did you use film for that image? Or is it digital? (I would like to think I could tell, but not everyone could). Were those clouds there in the original scene? Maybe none of my business, but if you want to tell me I would be curious and it may make me appreciate your work more (or reject it). If you do not want me to appreciate the work, that is fine, too. Sorry for wasting your time. :smile:
     
  24. Nodda Duma

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    I like the idea, but doesn’t EXIF accomplish most of this? I think what you are wanting could be accomplished with the addition of a tagline or two to the EXIF datalist.

    ANSI, NIST, etc standards are in place so that no communication barriers exist to the accurate exchange of technical information and data, primarily for manufacturing and specification of components/features. So probably not the best analogy. :smile:
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  25. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    As time goes on "photrio" seems increasingly strange to me.
     
  26. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    You do know that Giclee translates to Ejaculation.... t
     
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