NEW FILM : BERGGER Pancro 400

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Dr Croubie

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At 69 Euros for 50 sheets that works out to $96.18 AUD at today's rates, starting to look better.

Too bad the 8x10" price is so high, €139 is €9 more than HP5 (and well above the $130 I last paid for FP4 at Total Photo, I'm assuming HP5 is the same price).

Definitely tempting in 4x5", the last Ilford that CheapShotsAu had was 25 sheets of FP4 for $60, so 50 sheets for $96 ain't bad. Not as cheap as foma (presumably not as grainy either), but sure beats TMX at $150/50.
Too bad I'm out of money and centrelink are dragging their heels about giving me money (and I've still got a box or two of HP5) or I'd consider it...
 

Mick Fagan

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For Australia and New Zealand, please contact Ellie Young at GoldStreet Studios, she is our distributor for this area.

I understand where you are coming from, but maybe you would like to understand where I am coming from.

I would like this film this year, preferably as soon as possible. I also don't mind paying a normal price for product, but I have been treated very badly in this country film wise, so much so I have not purchased film in this country for quite some years as it is priced way over the top.

Unless you can convince me that I can purchase your Bergger film at a reasonable world price in Australia, and in a reasonably quick time from it's release, as quoted in this thread, I will not purchase any Bergger film.

Mick.
 

Mick Fagan

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Maybe I have been a bit harsh, but really the price gouging in this country means it is almost impossible to purchase film in this country without feeling you are being taken for a ride.

Very recently I purchased 1,000 4x5 sheets of Ilford FP4+, but not in this country. I outsourced to another country and saved $1,846.00 AUD. That is, a reasonable difference, wouldn’t you say?

I cannot under any circumstances see how in Australia that film could be so much more expensive, other than price gouging. We call it the Australia tax, and, we are getting sick of it.

I do not have any problem with Ellie Young on-selling your products, but, unless they are being on-sold at a reasonable price compared to most other places in the world, and in a reasonable time frame to most other places in the world, I will not purchase your products.

As you are directing myself to Ellie Young, perhaps you could ask her to place this film onto her website with a price and/or an ETA of the arrival of this product, there is nothing there at the moment.

I was getting quite excited about trying this new film, pity.

Mick.
 

Yamaotoko

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I was getting quite excited about trying this new film, pity.

Mick.

I have to agree Mick, I'll be interested (yet most likely very offended) to see what the aussie street price ends up at...
 

Mick Fagan

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I'll probably be in France in September Mick - I'll grab some then ;-)

Marc!

Working on the basis that a weekend has just happened and maybe (hopefully really) Bergger are possibly talking to their OZ and NZ distributor, I'll await the outcome of their reply. If not, then I'll take you up on your offer.

Perhaps for the future though, purchasing this film from the USA may be the only way it is affordable in the long run for people in the lands of Oz and NZ.

Mick.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I was told my Beau Photo in Vancouver that they will not be carrying this film, due to weak Canuck looney. Oh well... why even bother when I've been quite happy with easily accessable/affordable films such as Ilford.
 

c6h6o3

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At the current exchange rate of $1.09 per Euro, the price for a 25 sheet 8x10 box on the preorder site is $152.50 + shipping. This works out to $6.10/sheet (not considering shipping). The price of a 25 sheet box of 8x10 HP5+ from B&H is 109.90, which is $4.40/sheet. I'll stick with HP5.
 

David Lindquist

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"...based on Kodak's XX Super emulsion."

I got an e mail from Linhof Studio this past Friday saying that they had just received for sale Bergger Panchro 400 sheet film, 4 X 5, 5 X 7 and 8 X 10. This e mail included the statement "...based on Kodak's XX Super emulsion." (Maybe " XX Super" rather than "Super XX" resulted in translating from the French?) I can't see anything on Linhof Studio's website about this new film being "based on" Super XX, just in the e mail I got from them. Perhaps this is already general knowledge but I was not aware of it so am reporting it here.

Their price for 25 sheets of 4 X 5 is 34 GBP which converts to 52.66 USD. As of yesterday B&H in the US shows this film available from them only in 35 mm and Freestyle doesn't show it at all.

David
 
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BERGGER

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I got an e mail from Linhof Studio this past Friday saying that they had just received for sale Bergger Panchro 400 sheet film, 4 X 5, 5 X 7 and 8 X 10. This e mail included the statement "...based on Kodak's XX Super emulsion." (Maybe " XX Super" rather than "Super XX" resulted in translating from the French?) I can't see anything on Linhof Studio's website about this new film being "based on" Super XX, just in the e mail I got from them. Perhaps this is already general knowledge but I was not aware of it so am reporting it here.

Their price for 25 sheets of 4 X 5 is 34 GBP which converts to 52.66 USD. As of yesterday B&H in the US shows this film available from them only in 35 mm and Freestyle doesn't show it at all.

David

David,

It is a mistake from them since only the former BRF 200 and 400 were based on super XX emulsion.

We changed the name from BRF to Pancro because the film is really different from what you know from us.

Because Bergger is a small company, it take time for us to spread the new film worldwide. At the moment you can buy it in France, UK, Germany and Australia ... Soon, wolrdwide :wink:
 

David Lindquist

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David,

It is a mistake from them since only the former BRF 200 and 400 were based on super XX emulsion.

We changed the name from BRF to Pancro because the film is really different from what you know from us.

Because Bergger is a small company, it take time for us to spread the new film worldwide. At the moment you can buy it in France, UK, Germany and Australia ... Soon, wolrdwide :wink:

Thank you for this. I think it's very good to get this clarification out quickly. I'm sure I'm not the only one who got this e mail from Linhof Studio containing this description.
David
 

Peter Schrager

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after reading this entire thread has anyone actually tried this film??
best,peter
 

Dr Croubie

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Well, it's nearly June and Goldstreet Studios still aren't even listing it on their website.
All the worldwide places that have it have a comparable price with HP5 in 4x5", but in 8x10 the HP5 is well cheaper than the Bergger. So no, I haven't. Anyone else?
 

Mick Fagan

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Well, it's nearly June and Goldstreet Studios still aren't even listing it on their website.
All the worldwide places that have it have a comparable price with HP5 in 4x5", but in 8x10 the HP5 is well cheaper than the Bergger. So no, I haven't. Anyone else?

I telephoned them today, apparently they were informed that the film shipped 4 days ago, so, next week give them a telephone call.

Mick.
 

jacaquarie

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I would like to try,
Where to purchase?
When is this available in US?

Thanks Arthur
 

jacaquarie

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I am located in the state of Virginia in the United States.


Thanks
Arthur
 

TheToadMen

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TheToadMen

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Mick Fagan

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Picked up a couple of 50 sheet boxes of Bergger Panchro 400 yesterday. Today I checked it out with a primary look.

Firstly, the box has to be about the sexiest looking film box I can remember seeing. These were not my words, but I am in complete agreement with the woman who said that as she handed me a box of this film. Whether or not it makes a difference, the colour scheme is sublime and the feel of the covering is like a quality book.

It is a dark warm brown colour with the name Bergger in half positive and half reversed out of silver. Plus there is a picture reminiscent of Ilford and their paper boxes on the outside. I can see in the future, Bergger Pancho400 boxes holding all sorts of things, (long after their original film has been gone and developed) around photographer’s houses.

The box itself is quite big, almost as big as Ilford 4x5” 100 sheet film boxes in height, about 3mm less height. The length and width of the box, is bigger than Ilford 100 sheet boxes on both dimensions, certainly makes getting the film in and out easy.

Inside the triple layered box set, there are two plastic bags, with 25 sheets (presumably) in a side folded, wide opening bag. This certainly makes life easier to get your mitts in and pull the film out. Other manufacturers may consider this as it certainly makes it easier to get the film out and back into the plastic bag. I won’t be holding my breath though.

Thankfully the Panchro 400 has a single V notch near the corner. As I use Ilford HP5+ as my fast 4x5 film, it will make things easier if I mix sheets up in a storage box when away on a trip.

I cannot say much more than that I exposed two sheets of film to a small array of Kodak step wedge grey scales, along with two Kodak colour charts. One at box speed 400 ASA the other at 200 ASA. I have no historical data on this new to me and new to the world film, so when in doubt, read the manual. The back of the film box gives a varied array of possibilities, one of which is D76 1+1 17 min at 20ºC.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I placed the film into my Jobo tank and with a temperature of 21.1ºC and 4 day old D76 at 1+1. I used 15 min 15 seconds as my time. I rotary process at the slow speed, which is 28 rpm, no pre-soak, straight into it.

Inspection of the negs on a light box with a good loupe was interesting. The negs from a normal naked eye inspection, really look good, including the one exposed at 400 ASA, which was a bit of a surprise. I half expected the 400 ASA neg to be a bit on the thin side, it wasn’t, but it wasn’t thick either.

The 200 ASA one was certainly better, something I expected. The grey scale was really good with all 19 steps clearly defined, whereas the 400 ASA neg lost the last couple of dark scales.

With what I now know, I would think one could pretty much use this film anywhere from 200 ASA to 400 ASA and use one developing time and get reasonably good results. My own gut feeling, which will be vindicated or not in the next couple of days, is that 320 ASA with 1/8 of stop less development is going to be close to the money for my particular requirements. Others will probably be happier with 250 ASA and either 1/8 or ¼ of a stop less development from the manufacturer suggested time.

One thing I did pick up, and I wasn’t looking for it, was the emulsion having a ragged edge where it had been slid into and out of the film holder. More careful looking after noticing this, revealed that one sheet that I had run a finger over trying to find a grip to pull the pack of sheets out of the bag, had some streaks where my finger slid on the emulsion. The very edge of the emulsion on the very edge of the film, has little and I mean little, tear marks right on the edge, you need a loupe to see them.

I wondered if I had been a bit hard with this film, so I placed the two 4x5 FP4+ sheets I developed straight after doing the Bergger film onto the light box. Nary a mark, scratch or rip of the emulsion on the Ilford film. The Ilford film certainly has had a slightly harder time than the Bergger film, it has been sitting in a box after being transferred in a changing tent for a day, meaning it was able to rattle around slightly.

I cannot show any results as I print all of my negatives using an enlarger, I don’t own a scanner. If anyone in Melbourne is able to scan 4x5 negatives and they wish to scan to have a look, then contact me, then either these or different Bergger negatives could be shown.

For the Australian audience, I picked this film up from Gold Street Studios, in Trentham East Victoria. http://www.goldstreetstudios.com.au/
Cost was $134.00 AUD for 50 sheets, making it $2.68 a sheet. Not cheap, but I do feel that the importer, who is a niche player in a niche market is doing well to keep it to this price. I would hate to see what the price would be if a big player was importing this product into Australia.

If you think this Bergger film is expensive, then you can always buy Ilford HP5+ in Australia for $68.92 for 25 sheets from Vanbar, making it $2.76 a sheet which works out to be more expensive. http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/index.php?item1=FILM&item2=B&W&item3=SHEET&brand=


So for Australians who purchase sheet film locally, you can purchase this Bergger film for less than Ilford like for like film, which is a pleasant surprise that hopefully lasts.

Mick.
 

jacaquarie

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For what it is worth I too have now tried this film. My efforts are not as technical as Mick Fagan, will say that the negatives looked good. I need to get to my dark space and do some printing. For now this may become my go to 4X5 film.
The feel of the film as I handle it in the package and load the film holders feels good. Do not know what Bergger is doing but just having the box of this to work with has been a pleasure.
On occasion have instructed other on large format photography, this will be my film I use to teach film loading, can not tell you how easy this was to use.

Arthur
 
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