New Cinestill 400D film announced

[Steven Lee]

I finally finished my Kickstarter batch of 400D. In addition to what I've shared earlier, I also want to report minor scratch-like emulsion defects. Initially I blamed myself with the first few rolls, but then I started to notice the pattern: other films developed in the same tank did not have the problem. The scratches are trivial to patch post-scanning, aren't visible on web-sized scans, and probably won't be noticed on medium sized prints even if left intact. I get maybe 1-3 affected shots per roll. My theory is that I am looking at the aftermath of remjet stripping, but of course I don't know the real reason behind them. Could just be the softer emulsion.

 

[mshchem]

It appears that since Vision3 is cinematic film, it is outside the Alaris contract.

The fact that Cinestill appears to be able to buy the cine films without the remjet is significant, how significant to Alaris I don't know.

 

[cmacd123]

My ubnderstanding is that the folks in Alberta (Flic-Film) are just packaging the Vison films as they are received from Kodak, so any of the ones that are derived from Movie Film on their web site, I would expect to find Glorious REM-JET.

 

[MattKing]

My ubnderstanding is that the folks in Alberta (Flic-Film) are just packaging the Vison films as they are received from Kodak, so any of the ones that are derived from Movie Film on their web site, I would expect to find Glorious REM-JET.

What he said - from the Flic Film website:
"CineColor 500T

Developer: ECN-2. (Can be developed with C-41 but the film has a Remjet layer that must be removed with an ECN-2 Prebath before use with C-41 chemicals.)

This is Respooled KODAK VISION3 Color Negative Film 500T. Kodak and Vision are trademarks of Eastman Kodak Company."
Emphasis added by me.

The fact that Cinestill appears to be able to buy the cine films without the remjet is significant, how significant to Alaris I don't know.

I think it reflects the new, revised Eastman Kodak-Kodak Alaris agreement.

 

[mshchem]

What he said - from the Flic Film website:
"CineColor 500T

Developer: ECN-2. (Can be developed with C-41 but the film has a Remjet layer that must be removed with an ECN-2 Prebath before use with C-41 chemicals.)

This is Respooled KODAK VISION3 Color Negative Film 500T. Kodak and Vision are trademarks of Eastman Kodak Company."
Emphasis added by me.


I think it reflects the new, revised Eastman Kodak-Kodak Alaris agreement.

Yes Matt, I agree with your statement re revised EK- KA agreement. I mean the cine films (color negative) still don't offer the same look of the Kodak still films. It'll be hard to get me shooting anything other Kodak, Ilford, Fuji and to a lesser extent Foma still camera films. I still shoot mostly Kodak for roll film.

 

[AnselMortensen]

I'm still waiting for my 400D in 4x5...

 

[koraks]

I'm still waiting for my 400D in 4x5...

LOL - that's going to be a long wait. Don't think there's much market for a cine sheet film!

 

[AnselMortensen]

It is in the works...supposed to arrive last December, keeps getting pushed back.
Still waiting.

 

[koraks]

Oh alright, I didn't follow that. Well, any color sheet film stock is welcome. It's a barren landscape for the most part.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Oh alright, I didn't follow that. Well, any color sheet film stock is welcome. It's a barren landscape for the most part.

True...it is a crowdfunding effort worth supporting...and waiting for.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Aaaaand.....I contacted Cinestill (again), inquiring about any updates on the 400D in 4x5.
I received a response saying that the 'coated material' was shipped to their 'finishing partner' at the end of last year.
Their 'finishing partner' apparently is dealing with 'material shortages' and 'production plan adjustments'.
Latest estimate is that fulfillment will start in late June.
So it goes.

 

[film_man]

Well..anyone got their 4x5? I guess not...?

 

[AnselMortensen]

Nope.
Not yet.
I received a response to an email I sent a week or so ago, saying that they are on schedule to start fulfillment at the end of June.
We'll see.....

 

[Pekka Puusaha]

Yes, they mentioned that end of June to me also. Now thinking, which year.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Yes, they mentioned that end of June to me also. Now thinking, which year.

Well played, sir!

 

[faberryman]

What is the attraction of shooting Kodak cine films in still cameras? Is it the color palette, the contrast, the grain? What sort of projects are you shooting with them.

 

[koraks]

Is it the color palette, the contrast, the grain?

Surely, it's the cost, for many people. Although that is much less of an advantage with products like Cinestill's films, since most of the potential savings are 'eaten up' by Cinestill. For optimal savings, it's better to just get a 400ft roll of real Kodak Vision3 and learn to live with the remjet.

When I started experimenting with the Kodak Vision stills, it's because I was looking for a more muted/natural color palette, given the high saturation of contemporary RA4 papers. There's no such thing anymore as a 'portrait color paper', for instance. But for some images, I wanted a more muted color palette than what I could get with e.g. Portra films printed onto Crystal Archive papers. Initially it was a struggle and I ran into massive crossover problems, but as of late, I've been shooting a lot of Vision3 250D (= Cinestill 400D, but with the remjet backing) and printing it onto Crystal Archive, and I get pretty much what I was looking for - neutral, not too saturated colors.

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

Initially it was a struggle and I ran into massive crossover problems, but as of late, I've been shooting a lot of Vision3 250D (= Cinestill 400D, but with the remjet backing) and printing it onto Crystal Archive, and I get pretty much what I was looking for - neutral, not too saturated colors.

Is this with the Vision film processed in ECN-2 chemicals or C-41 chemicals? I've heard that, if it is processed in ECN-2, the contrast is too low for optical printing on RA-4 paper. I would like to try some, but want to retain the option of having it optically printed. As I am sure you can tell, I have zero experience, with this film.

 

[koraks]

ECN2 developer. I overdevelop a bit to get the right contrast. This turns out to work quite well indeed. Overdevelopment by extending the development time about 30% is a good starting point. Adjust to taste!
I got wonky colors with C41 developer.

 

[AnselMortensen]

What is the attraction of shooting Kodak cine films in still cameras? Is it the color palette, the contrast, the grain? What sort of projects are you shooting with them.

I, personally, am just trying out a new film:
1) To see if I like the results...for portraiture/landscape/general photography.
2) To support a new supplier's efforts to bring alternative products to the market.
(It's nice to have options).
Cinestill are supplying processing chemical kits and other items as well.
3) I supported the 220 and 4x5 Cinestill 400D programs because I feel we need more options in those film sizes...particularly ANY option in 220. Unfortunately, the 220 400D did not happen. The 4x5 400D has taken 6+ months longer than initially expected...still waiting to try it out.

I've also tried out some repackaged Aerocolor and Aviphot, as well as Svema and Ferrania P30 for reasons 1) and 2) above...and for economic reasons, too.

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

ECN2 developer. I overdevelop a bit to get the right contrast. This turns out to work quite well indeed. Overdevelopment by extending the development time about 30% is a good starting point. Adjust to taste!
I got wonky colors with C41 developer.

Thanks! So, basically, expose it a box-speed, and tell the lab (a cine lab that will accept single rolls of 35mm still film) to push it one stop?

 

[AnselMortensen]

To prevent further thread drift....

Cinestill 400D has NO remjet
and is intended for regular C-41 processing.

Please start another thread about Vision films, ECN processing, etc.

 

[koraks]

Thanks! So, basically, expose it a box-speed, and tell the lab (a cine lab that will accept single rolls of 35mm still film) to push it one stop?

I guess; I never talked to a lab about this.

Please start another thread about Vision films, ECN processing, etc.

Hmmmmyes. But threads meander, and discussing Vision3 films in a context of a Cinestill thread isn't too outrageous. If you're concerned about this, don't hesitate to report the thread and we'll look into it.

 

[MattKing]

To prevent further thread drift....

Cinestill 400D has NO remjet
and is intended for regular C-41 processing.

Please start another thread about Vision films, ECN processing, etc.

Well, it will work with C-41 processing, and the expected use of the film is, for most customers, processing with C-41..
But the emulsion is/was optimized for ECN-2 processing, with a lower target contrast - the motion picture contrast, rather than the still film contrast.
All of which is complicated by the fact that the remjet that forms part of the original package affects the contrast behavior of that package, and is therefore changed as a result of not including it.

 

[AnselMortensen]

I'm just going to leave this here.
From Cinestill's website FAQ: