New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

[GregY]

Midnight last night I just returned from Europe. Munich has the most chill staff....there is none...of the bustle of N American security. Very polite and careful with the film...no issue getting hand check. Frankfurt is busier, but still very polite staff. Both airports using X-ray techno gear. YVR Vancouver BC has new CT machines...very obvious big round machines. Once again, no problem getting film hand checked.

 

[dokko]

I just got back from a longer trip to trip to japan with about 150 rolls of film (35mm and 120, a mix of Portra160, Portra400, Portra800, Provia100F, Tri-X and TMX) although I used baggage storage at certain points to travel lighter (and have less stress with airport checks). here the results:

Berlin Airport BER (international departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
The staff was nice but arguing that the film is safe up to 800 ISO, and that the radiation up in the air would be higher than in their scanner (which from what I've read in some NASA studies from film in outer space is not true at all), but when kindly asked again they checked with the Airport police and agreed to hand inspect the films.
They wiped all the boxes with the explosive detector collectors and didn't open sealed boxes.

Munich Airport (transit):
The airport is organised that I didn't have to go through security again.

Tokyo Haneda Airport (domestic departures):
CT Scanner
I showed them a AI translation of my worry of X-Ray damage and a request for hand inspection and they didn't hesitate a second and checked every single package very thoroughly by hand. Strange enough, no explosive detection swipes, and they kept sealed packages closed.

Naha Airport (domestic departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo.

Osaka Kansai Airport (domestic departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo.

Naha Airport (again, domestic departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo.

Tokyo Haneda Airport (international departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo before (like everywhere in Japan).

Frankfurt Airport (transit):
CT Scanner.
The staff was nice, but argued that the film is safe.
I mentioned that the CT scanners are more risky and they were ok with a hand inspection after some chatting. everybody was nice and relaxed and was telling stories that they used to have a lot of film when they were young.
One of the security persons was mentioning that it is safe up to 400 ISO, the other was claiming a minute later that they were instructed that film is safe up to 3600 ISO (no typo). They mentioned that there's another security line where they still have the conventional X-Ray machines.
They wiped all the boxes with the explosive detector collectors and insisted in opening all sealed boxes (but not the foil wrapping of the unexposed 120 film).

All in all it was a very good experience with the airport staff, but always quite a bit of a worry before hand how people would react.

I had some important films developed in Tokyo at National Photo because I didn't want to risk anything in case I got denied a hand inspection.

I had some films in the camera bag that I forgot to take out, and some film in the camera going through the CT, so I'll report back how they fared when i got them developed and scanned (will take a while with 140 exposed films .

 

[koraks]

Encouraging results, @dokko. It echoes my recent experience (n=1, mind you) at Bergamo airport in Italy. Staff argued the machines were film-safe, I tried to explain I have my doubts, staff escalated to local supervisor who ordered a manual check and said to me "sir, you did the right thing; we're just told by equipment manufacturers their machines are safe for film, but in reality, we have no way of knowing." I really appreciated that frankness, especially from on a rather busy security check area.

 

[loccdor]

When I traveled through Frankfurt during Covid times I got stopped by a group of 5 police. They did not know their own rules which were published on the airport's website as well as their government site. They made me wait for 10 minutes while one called his supervisor to ask about the rules they had not read. All of them were friendly except one that you could tell got a thrill from the power his job gave him, he kept giving small orders as if to see if I would comply. It encouraged me to fly direct to my destination in the future and not have a layover in an additional country just to save a couple hundred dollars.

 

[wiltw]

I finally ran into CT scanners for carry-on bags, but unfortunately had not brought any film for damage assessment. LIH, Lihue airport on island of Kauai in Hawaiian islands.
I watched the agent rotating the view of bag and contents in 3-D using it touch screen to control the orientation of the view.

 

[GregY]

I just got back from a longer trip to trip to japan with about 150 rolls of film (35mm and 120, a mix of Portra160, Portra400, Portra800, Provia100F, Tri-X and TMX) although I used baggage storage at certain points to travel lighter (and have less stress with airport checks). here the results:

Berlin Airport BER (international departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
The staff was nice but arguing that the film is safe up to 800 ISO, and that the radiation up in the air would be higher than in their scanner (which from what I've read in some NASA studies from film in outer space is not true at all), but when kindly asked again they checked with the Airport police and agreed to hand inspect the films.
They wiped all the boxes with the explosive detector collectors and didn't open sealed boxes.

Munich Airport (transit):
The airport is organised that I didn't have to go through security again.

Tokyo Haneda Airport (domestic departures):
CT Scanner
I showed them a AI translation of my worry of X-Ray damage and a request for hand inspection and they didn't hesitate a second and checked every single package very thoroughly by hand. Strange enough, no explosive detection swipes, and they kept sealed packages closed.

Naha Airport (domestic departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo.

Osaka Kansai Airport (domestic departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo.

Naha Airport (again, domestic departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo.

Tokyo Haneda Airport (international departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo before (like everywhere in Japan).

Frankfurt Airport (transit):
CT Scanner.
The staff was nice, but argued that the film is safe.
I mentioned that the CT scanners are more risky and they were ok with a hand inspection after some chatting. everybody was nice and relaxed and was telling stories that they used to have a lot of film when they were young.
One of the security persons was mentioning that it is safe up to 400 ISO, the other was claiming a minute later that they were instructed that film is safe up to 3600 ISO (no typo). They mentioned that there's another security line where they still have the conventional X-Ray machines.
They wiped all the boxes with the explosive detector collectors and insisted in opening all sealed boxes (but not the foil wrapping of the unexposed 120 film).

All in all it was a very good experience with the airport staff, but always quite a bit of a worry before hand how people would react.

I had some important films developed in Tokyo at National Photo because I didn't want to risk anything in case I got denied a hand inspection.

I had some films in the camera bag that I forgot to take out, and some film in the camera going through the CT, so I'll report back how they fared when i got them developed and scanned (will take a while with 140 exposed films .

Interestingly enough.... in Frankfurt the agent said 'film is ok in the Xray machine'....to which i casually replied, 'but better without...' & then he took the film to his colleague for the explosives swab test. All in all a very easy journey. Two years ago in Paris, the day of the air traffic controller strike it was mayhem and i was happy that i'd had Atelier Publimod process it all.

 

[Agulliver]

@dokko good news about the ease of hand inspection in Tokyo and Osaka as I am highly likely to be flying from/to both in April next year. I'll have a native Japanese speaker with me who will also be carrying film, so will rely on them for ease of communication. I'm also planning on travelling with nothing faster than 200ISO to lessen any risks.

 

[Agulliver]

So, here are the results. APX 400 - bulk loaded into plastic cartridge - went once through old x-ray machine and then through who-knows-what in checked luggage (Argentina to France).
I don't see anything beyond the usual light leaks at the beginning of the roll...do you informed eyes catch anything else? Is there a chance that I'll notice something once I get into the darkroom and enlarge?
View attachment 375759

Sometimes you just get lucky. I am sure many of us has accidentally packed a loaded camera or a film in checked baggage and got away with it. I know I have. The worst example I ever had was when I mixed up two 135 cassettes of Kodak Ultramax. One was fresh, and one was about 6 years expired and had been through two airport checked bag CT scanners (it was given to me by someone else after all this). I accidentally loaded the old one for photographing a walk in hills/countryside on a very foggy day. The photos were usable but did show signs of fog...possibly from both age and the CT scans.

It's not like CT scans are instant death for film. I am sure that back in film's heyday many people packed their annual roll of Kodak Gold in their checked bag, not realising it might be a problem. But they do substantially increase the risk.

 

[Angarian]

A very big thank you to all who are reporting their recent experiences !!
That is all extremely helpful!
I am looking forward to see more reports.

 

[MattKing]

This story indicates that the CT scanners are coming to YVR - Vancouver International Airport. I posted in the comments there about the concerns of film users.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canadian-airport-ct-scanners-1.7327189

 

[GregY]

This story indicates that the CT scanners are coming to YVR - Vancouver International Airport. I posted in the comments there about the concerns of film users.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canadian-airport-ct-scanners-1.7327189

They're there installed and easy to see. No problems getting a hand check as of 3 days ago....

 

[Daniela]

Sometimes you just get lucky. I am sure many of us has accidentally packed a loaded camera or a film in checked baggage and got away with it. I know I have. The worst example I ever had was when I mixed up two 135 cassettes of Kodak Ultramax. One was fresh, and one was about 6 years expired and had been through two airport checked bag CT scanners (it was given to me by someone else after all this). I accidentally loaded the old one for photographing a walk in hills/countryside on a very foggy day. The photos were usable but did show signs of fog...possibly from both age and the CT scans.

It's not like CT scans are instant death for film. I am sure that back in film's heyday many people packed their annual roll of Kodak Gold in their checked bag, not realising it might be a problem. But they do substantially increase the risk.

It certainly looks like I got lucky. I've printed a couple of those images and I didn't find any issues whatsoever

 

[Agulliver]

Flights to Osaka and Tokyo booked for April 2025....at least two of us on the trip will be taking film. I shall report my findings here when I get back.

A big thank you to everyone detailing their experiences. It seems like most airports are trying at least to make our lives easier.

 

[MFstooges]

I just got back from a longer trip to trip to japan with about 150 rolls of film (35mm and 120, a mix of Portra160, Portra400, Portra800, Provia100F, Tri-X and TMX) although I used baggage storage at certain points to travel lighter (and have less stress with airport checks). here the results:

Berlin Airport BER (international departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
The staff was nice but arguing that the film is safe up to 800 ISO, and that the radiation up in the air would be higher than in their scanner (which from what I've read in some NASA studies from film in outer space is not true at all), but when kindly asked again they checked with the Airport police and agreed to hand inspect the films.
They wiped all the boxes with the explosive detector collectors and didn't open sealed boxes.

Munich Airport (transit):
The airport is organised that I didn't have to go through security again.

Tokyo Haneda Airport (domestic departures):
CT Scanner
I showed them a AI translation of my worry of X-Ray damage and a request for hand inspection and they didn't hesitate a second and checked every single package very thoroughly by hand. Strange enough, no explosive detection swipes, and they kept sealed packages closed.

Naha Airport (domestic departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo.

Osaka Kansai Airport (domestic departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo.

Naha Airport (again, domestic departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo.

Tokyo Haneda Airport (international departures):
Conventional X-Ray machine.
Same as in Tokyo before (like everywhere in Japan).

Frankfurt Airport (transit):
CT Scanner.
The staff was nice, but argued that the film is safe.
I mentioned that the CT scanners are more risky and they were ok with a hand inspection after some chatting. everybody was nice and relaxed and was telling stories that they used to have a lot of film when they were young.
One of the security persons was mentioning that it is safe up to 400 ISO, the other was claiming a minute later that they were instructed that film is safe up to 3600 ISO (no typo). They mentioned that there's another security line where they still have the conventional X-Ray machines.
They wiped all the boxes with the explosive detector collectors and insisted in opening all sealed boxes (but not the foil wrapping of the unexposed 120 film).

All in all it was a very good experience with the airport staff, but always quite a bit of a worry before hand how people would react.

I had some important films developed in Tokyo at National Photo because I didn't want to risk anything in case I got denied a hand inspection.

I had some films in the camera bag that I forgot to take out, and some film in the camera going through the CT, so I'll report back how they fared when i got them developed and scanned (will take a while with 140 exposed films .

I am not sure which one has more potential of getting hand checked by airport staff : 150 rolls or 15 rolls.
Maybe they're more cooperative knowing it's a large quantity? But the average staffs at any airport that I've seen so far have that look of not going to waste their time even for 2 rolls.

 

[Saganich]

I went went through Jet Blue in JFK and SFO last week, no CT's that I could see. There are signs informing travelers they can ask for hand inspection of film, but only in SFO did it seem like they actually would. My Double-X went through twice in SFO due to some equipment glitch (about 10 people had to have rescans). Negs look good, no obvious issues, I've had trix x-rayed up to 5 times on one trip without any obvious issues. Those CT scanners are another animal...1 CT is like 10 regular x-rays. They are easy to spot due to the circumference of the gantry creating a large bulbous profile whereas the regular x-ray is smaller and more even and boxy in its proportions.

 

[wiltw]

The reason that requests for hand check of film is often ignored is that film-manuacturing companies did testing decades ago, with proof that there was no damage due to X-ray inspection machines, https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtmlays
in multiple passes, unless film had very high ISO sensitivity. That was updated by Kodak in their statement in 2003. https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

However, with the more recent use of CT at gate Security checkpoints, first considered for use in about 2018, the 'film safe' carryover from X-ray ceased to be totally valid, as we know from Kodak examples of CT being used for checked baggage (see in https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml ). Even traditional 'hand-inspection refusal' locations like London Heathrow have started to honor requests for hand check when CT is used for gate Security of carry-on luggage. As is always true, it takes a while for word to get around properly...and it takes a while for CT to replace X-ray everywhere, which accounts for many Security personel still citing the old 'flm safe' axiom that applied only to X-ray.
Kodak Alaris did warn in 2022 that the new TSA CT scanners WILL damage unprocessed film. https://kodakprofessional.com/photographers/resources/ct-scanning-x-ray-technology-and-film

To republish information which I posted about 5 years ago, based upon information in an article: https://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q12361.html

"(para 5 "Dosimeters that were passed through the "checked baggage" system that randomly activates the x ray had highly variable doses. If the dosimeters were near the area randomly selected by the software to activate the x-ray source, a higher dose would be measured. The average dose, after 10 passes through this type of system was about 28 mrem per scan (0.28 mSv per scan)."​

​

(para 6 "Dosimeters that were passed through the type of "checked baggage" system that stayed active for the entire screening process had an average dose of 156 mrem per scan (1.56 mSv) per scan. The newer carry-on screening systems are expected to deliver similar doses."​

​

IOW, the old Check baggage CT systems, which Kodak (decades ago) had warned WOULD FOG film have lower dose than the newer Hand Luggage 3-D CT systems! So unless the nature of the beam is much improved we have something to worry about, until another impartial and knowledgeable body (equivalent to the struggling remains of Kodak) publishes their own results! On face value, the new 1.5mSv CT machines should fog film, if 0.28 mSv CT checked baggage CT systems used to fog film!"​

​

The jury is out on whether gate Security CT has a 'low dose' used 'mostly' vs 'full dose' mode which is used selectively to improve throughput thru gate Security, which might explain why some folks have reported no damage while others have illustrated true damage to film. For example, at the same airport (Schipol) a traveller reported no damage from CT at gate Security while another traveller reported visible damage!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

YVR now has CT scanners.

 

[GregY]

You can't miss 'em. They were very accommodating hand checking my film

 

[abruzzi]

I've never had difficulty getting a hand check at any US airport--and that includes JFK where security is a bit of a mob scene. I've had issues outside the US, and for that reason I always go with a workaround.

One is to never make connections outside the US. My experience is that that if you are making a connection and your inbound flight is from a different country, they will make you go back through security, and you're captive so you're stuck with whatever the policy or security person says.

My last international trip I flew out with my film, but boxed it up and shipped it back via DHL with a "Do Not Xray" label on the box. I read that most shippers randomly Xray some packages. It was obvious my package had been manually opened and inspected (presumably because it said no-xray) so I'm guessing it wasn't x-rayed, and the film, even the Delta 3200 and Portra 800 (way underexposed) had zero issues.

 

[Agulliver]

The TSA in the US have long been instructed to action hand inspections. I gather that some Americans simply object to having their bags X-rayed. Most other countries have never had this agreement...hence hand inspection in the states is usually OK but elsewhere it might be difficult or impossible.

HOnestly I wouldn't worry about X-rays in the mail. I don't think anyone has ever reported unexposed film being damaged in the mail by X-rays. It's more likely to be crushed by a careless worker or malfunctioning sorting machinery.

 

[GregY]

I've never had difficulty getting a hand check at any US airport--and that includes JFK where security is a bit of a mob scene. I've had issues outside the US, and for that reason I always go with a workaround.

One is to never make connections outside the US. My experience is that that if you are making a connection and your inbound flight is from a different country, they will make you go back through security, and you're captive so you're stuck with whatever the policy or security person says.

My last international trip I flew out with my film, but boxed it up and shipped it back via DHL with a "Do Not Xray" label on the box. I read that most shippers randomly Xray some packages. It was obvious my package had been manually opened and inspected (presumably because it said no-xray) so I'm guessing it wasn't x-rayed, and the film, even the Delta 3200 and Portra 800 (way underexposed) had zero issues.

"One is to never make connections outside the US." For most travellers that's pretty unrealistic...London, Reyjkavik, Amsterdam, Frankfurt are big hubs for transfer to other cities...& connections are common.

 

[stevenjeong99]

I always ask for a handcheck even if the officer looks grumpy haha. They can't refuse it according to regulations from what I heard.

 

[abruzzi]

"One is to never make connections outside the US." For most travellers that's pretty unrealistic...London, Reyjkavik, Amsterdam, Frankfurt are big hubs for transfer to other cities...& connections are common.

Then your alternative is to not bring the film to the airport. Buy it in the destination country, and ship it back. Maybe I’ve had bad luck, maybe things are changing, but I’ve never successfully got film hand checked outside the USA.

 

[GregY]

Then your alternative is to not bring the film to the airport. Buy it in the destination country, and ship it back. Maybe I’ve had bad luck, maybe things are changing, but I’ve never successfully got film hand checked outside the USA.

I have.....in Tokyo, Frankfurt & Munich (in the last few weeks). #1026 & #1031

 

[abruzzi]

Well, you’ve had more success than me—Leon Mexico, Moscow, Madrid, London, Rome, and others. If you’re just doing a connection, you have nothing you can do if they say no. You can’t turn around and fly back. You can’t cancel your trip.

So if I have to have a connection outside the US I don’t bring film. I find another way.