New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

[Ai Print]

And what are your intentions for getting photos back home?

Shipping them back as well. Fedex out, DHL back, will cost a pretty penny but that is business for ya.

 

[wiltw]

Shipping them back as well. Fedex out, DHL back, will cost a pretty penny but that is business for ya.

What are your airports leaving US, and leaving to return home?

 

[Ai Print]

What are your airports leaving US, and leaving to return home?

Denver to Newark, Copenhagen, Faroe Islands and then the reverse two months later.

 

[fdonadio]

and then the reverse two months later.

This is what I call a vacation!

 

[Helge]

For vacation use I'm leaning towards just putting the film in a led lined pipe with Kodak film warning stickers on, and put the thing in boarding luggage. Then it's out of your hair and for someone else to worry about.
No scanner will be able to shoot through it anyway, so it's up to the personnel if they want to check and heed the warning.

 

[wiltw]

For vacation use I'm leaning towards just putting the film in a led lined pipe with Kodak film warning stickers on, and put the thing in boarding luggage. Then it's out of your hair and for someone else to worry about.
No scanner will be able to shoot through it anyway, so it's up to the personnel if they want to check and heed the warning.

Do you really think a pipe inside your carry-on will arouse no suspicion?!
I think it's grounds for a body cavity search, looking for a detonator.
And if in checked luggage, they WILL spot it by the baggage CT and open your luggage with certainty.
Terrorists can use Kodak stickers too.

 

[foc]

For vacation use I'm leaning towards just putting the film in a led lined pipe with Kodak film warning stickers on, and put the thing in boarding luggage. Then it's out of your hair and for someone else to worry about.
No scanner will be able to shoot through it anyway, so it's up to the personnel if they want to check and heed the warning.

Please let us know how you get on.
If we don't hear from you....... then I take it wasn't successful and you aren't at liberty to reply.

 

[Helge]

There is load of “pipes” in checked luggage. Food containers, a metal roll of biscuits for instance, a roll tinfoil, an umbrella in a holder etc.
They are used to seeing anything and everything.

 

[Arthurwg]

Went to Vegas for July 4 week, Greenville Spantanburg has the new scanners, and were very friendly about hand inspection, quick and easy.

Return trip from Vegas was...the opposite. Very rude, lots of eye rolls, and held up the line. When they finally did take my bag of film, they simply set it on a table on the other side of the scanners, never checked it at all. When I got through the check and retrieved my items, the supervisor made a point of thanking me for holding up the process. It wasn't really all that busy, either, at the time.

May not bother with flying film anymore.

The supervisor was probably a ......... supporter.

 

[wiltw]

There is load of “pipes” in checked luggage. Food containers, a metal roll of biscuits for instance, a roll tinfoil, an umbrella in a holder etc.
They are used to seeing anything and everything.

But all of those 'pipes' can be penetrated by CT scan...they are not lead lined, as you annpounced your intention of doing! And when they open the bag with aluminum foil (how many people travel with that?!) the box makes is apparent what is inside. Your pipe looks like a pipe, and it could contain exposiives, not film. They have to open the pipe to see what is inside, fearing it may set off an explosion!

 

[Helge]

But all of those 'pipes' can be penetrated by CT scan...they are not lead lined, as you annpounced your intention of doing! And when they open the bag with aluminum foil (how many people travel with that?!) the box makes is apparent what is inside. Your pipe looks like a pipe, and it could contain exposiives, not film. They have to open the pipe to see what is inside, fearing it may set off an explosion!

That was exactly my point. No, they can not. Plenty of metal containers and holsters about.
Are there any rules concerning traveling with led plating? You might need tinfoil for anything. That is not the concern of airport security. And no, regular scanners will have a hard time looking through aluminium of a certain thickness.
I'd naturally try to not make it look like something nefarious.

Have any of you ever considered the possibility, that the airports treats it like a special case a nuisance and a surprise, to make us feel alienated and uncomfortable when asking for handcheck?
When traveling in the last years before lockdown, I saw a sufficient amount of film camera shooters (Medium format SLRs, TLRs and Rangefinders and obvious film 135 SLRs,) out and about in the EU for it to be a regular occurrence in any airport. At least daily.
I'm aware that 80 to 90 percent will probably just eat it, not know about the problem or think it's no big deal. But even with that number subtracted, it has to be a daily occurrence with the thousands of people going through a big airport in 24 hours.

 

[wiltw]

When traveling in the last years before lockdown, I saw a sufficient amount of film camera shooters (Medium format SLRs, TLRs and Rangefinders and obvious film 135 SLRs,) out and about in the EU for it to be a regular occurrence in any airport. At least daily.
I'm aware that 80 to 90 percent will probably just eat it, not know about the problem or think it's no big deal. But even with that number subtracted, it has to be a daily occurrence with the thousands of people going through a big airport in 24 hours.

Prior to about 2019, CT scanners did NOT EXIST in Security for carry-on bags...and the machines were confirmed by Kodak and others to be safe for multiple passes thru Security X-ray machines. So little harm was done unless you used >ISO1600.
Then about 2 years ago, they started to install CT scanners in the Security area just outside the Gates to airplanes, The TSA announced that it was ordering 300 new CT scanners. So unless the local Security honors requrests for hand inspection (and we know they are deaf to such requests at certain airports) your film WILL BE RUINED by CT scanner. Bringing us to the creation of this thread.

A wise person will avoid presenting something that looks like a pipe bomb, unless you want to be detained, maybe anally probed (not by aliens) and miss your flight.

If you still think lead shielding is a way to go, this from the web:

"CT SCANNERS I(installed) N VEHICLES
Existing vehicles with new or replacement CT scanners: At least 1/16‑inch lead shielding or equivalent is required for the walls and doors of the CT enclosure, including the operator's barrier and lead-glass viewing window."
​

Simply for X-ray techs' and patient protection from X-ray (weaker than CT) and which are OBSOLETE per current guideline for current equipment:

"The most important of these is the lead apron. Aprons are generally available in 0.5- and 0.25-mm thicknesses. In optimal circumstances, the 0.5-mm thickness has the ability to attenuate 98% to 99.5% of the radiation dose, whereas the 0.25-mm thickness attenuates approximately 96% of the dose."​

Sheet Lead 1/16" 1' x 4' weighs 16 lbs., making it more difficult to stay under the 15lb. limit imposed by many airlines outside the US.

 

[Helge]

Prior to about 2019, CT scanners did NOT EXIST in Security for carry-on bags...and the machines were confirmed by Kodak and others to be safe for multiple passes thru Security X-ray machines. So little harm was done unless you used >ISO1600.
Then about 2 years ago, they started to install CT scanners in the Security area just outside the Gates to airplanes, The TSA announced that it was ordering 300 new CT scanners. So unless the local Security honors requrests for hand inspection (and we know they are deaf to such requests at certain airports) your film WILL BE RUINED by CT scanner. Bringing us to the creation of this thread.

A wise person will avoid presenting something that looks like a pipe bomb, unless you want to be detained, maybe anally probed (not by aliens) and miss your flight.

If you sill think lead shielding is a way to go, this from the web:

"CT SCANNERS I(installed) N VEHICLES
Existing vehicles with new or replacement CT scanners: At least 1/16‑inch lead shielding or equivalent is required for the walls and doors of the CT enclosure, including the operator's barrier and lead-glass viewing window."​

Sheet Lead 1/16" 1' x 4' weighs 16 lbs., making it more difficult to stay under the 15lb. limit imposed by many airlines outside the US.

If you are really desperate. 120 film and... ;-P

Maybe we should form a global union, for traveling film photographers? Demanding that you could at least hand in your film somewhere in every airport around the world, to have it checked within an hour and send to the other side of hand luggage for you to pick up.
Film shooters can't be the only people who'd appreciate such a service enormously.
And the airlines and airports are in a place right now where they would be wise in listening to even small customer groups.

 

[wiltw]

... in case someone wants to read it in context:

https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/futuristic-luggage-scanner

Despite Mark Laustra’s excellent credentials... let’s not forget that he’s a marketing manager trying to sell his company product in the face of competitors.

Independent testing and real data would be much more reassuring.

Mark Laustra does not appear in the list of 9 top executives of Analogic....he left Nov 2018, per LinkedIn

 

[BrianShaw]

Mark Laustra does not appear in the list of 9 top executives of Analogic....he left Nov 2018, per LinkedIn

Yes, the article was dated 2017. Do you think much has changed since then on this issue? I haven’t seen any real information or data… just a bit of chatter on photo forums.

 

[wiltw]

Yes, the article was dated 2017. Do you think much has changed since then on this issue?

Without being an 'insider' in that segment of the Security market, it is very hard to say what has changed...it is not as if anyone wants terrorists to be more knowledgeable.
Our TV newscasters already give away far too much information of value to those who should not know.

 

[BrianShaw]

Without being an 'insider' in that segment of the Security market, it is very hard to say what has changed...it is not as if anyone wants terrorists to be more knowledgeable.

Very true. The article was about his claim that the CT devices are safe for film. That does not appear to be substantiated. Who cares where he works today. His claim was likely neither true then or now.

 

[wiltw]

Very true. The article was about his claim that the CT devices are safe for film. That does not appear to be substantiated. Who cares where he works today. His claim was likely neither true then or now.

Maybe what he said was not endorsed by Analogic management.

 

[BrianShaw]

Maybe what he said was not endorsed by Analogic management.

I think you’r really reaching on that one. But who knows.

 

[reddesert]

You can't take film through in your pocket. In the old days, this might have worked with the metal detectors. But in the US, at least, the mm-wave detectors (the "raise your hands and stand on the footprints" machines) will detect any small object, even a wad of paper or the zipper in a pants cargo pocket, and get you a pat down.

Sending a metal container that is near opaque to x-rays through in your checked bag will get your bag pulled apart and inspected, with (in the US) a little note left inside about how the TSA had to open it up. Hopefully they'll get it closed back up. Don't expect the film to get through without being x-rayed.

I may have previously told the story about how in China the checked-bag x-ray detected a spare lithium battery for a digital camera, that was smaller than the size of a 35mm film can - small enough that I had forgotten it, and had to dig through a lot of the bag to find and extract it. (This was a rule about no lithium batteries in checked bags, carrying it on was ok).

I recently flew though an airport (Philly) that is listed as having CT scanners, and took a roll of film through as a test, but the terminal I was at didn't have them yet.

 

[Agulliver]

Do let us know how your films come out.

As restrictions lift and people travel more it will be interesting to gather data on this. For the first time I am concerned about airport scanners.

In the distant past when I didn't know the damage checked bag scanners could do, I did pack films in my hold baggage....and maybe I got lucky. Maybe being a tourist with 100ASA film helped. But the more data we can collectively gather on this, the better.

 

[wiltw]

Do let us know how your films come out.

As restrictions lift and people travel more it will be interesting to gather data on this. For the first time I am concerned about airport scanners.

In the distant past when I didn't know the damage checked bag scanners could do, I did pack films in my hold baggage....and maybe I got lucky. Maybe being a tourist with 100ASA film helped. But the more data we can collectively gather on this, the better.

Speculation here...if your film got thru checked bag CT scanners in the past without harm, it is because there is not scanning of 100% of bags, but some randomized selection of which bags to scan, at the airport you went thru.

 

[fdonadio]

Speculation here...if your film got thru checked bag CT scanners in the past without harm, it is because there is not scanning of 100% of bags, but some randomized selection of which bags to scan, at the airport you went thru.

You’re probably right. But I have anecdotal evidence to the contrary — or that I have been one of the lucky ones that got a bag scanned: some years ago (2014, I guess) my wife decided to bring a food processor from the USA. I carefully packed it, right in the center of one of our bags, surrounded by layers of clothes, to protect it from impacts. When I got my bag, there was a red label on it, stating that it had been opened by TSA or Customs (I’m not sure which one).

As a side note: I strongly recommend Cuisinart food processors. The one we got is still in use, works like new and indeed survived the trip from the USA to Brazil.

 

[wiltw]

You’re probably right. But I have anecdotal evidence to the contrary — or that I have been one of the lucky ones that got a bag scanned: some years ago (2014, I guess) my wife decided to bring a food processor from the USA. I carefully packed it, right in the center of one of our bags, surrounded by layers of clothes, to protect it from impacts. When I got my bag, there was a red label on it, stating that it had been opened by TSA or Customs (I’m not sure which one).

As a side note: I strongly recommend Cuisinart food processors. The one we got is still in use, works like new and indeed survived the trip from the USA to Brazil.

Since Kodak and others have always warned photographers to NEVER put film in checked bags, the fact that some have experienced no CT damage, and others like you know it went thru CT, simply reflects the RANDOM SELECTION for CT inspection. One post from UK resident with no CT damage a few posts ago in this thread...while it was also known and proven about a UK baggage theft ring decades ago who had a CT operator flag the rest of the team about goodies inside...both sides of same coin.

 

[MattKing]

You’re probably right. But I have anecdotal evidence to the contrary — or that I have been one of the lucky ones that got a bag scanned: some years ago (2014, I guess) my wife decided to bring a food processor from the USA. I carefully packed it, right in the center of one of our bags, surrounded by layers of clothes, to protect it from impacts. When I got my bag, there was a red label on it, stating that it had been opened by TSA or Customs (I’m not sure which one).

As a side note: I strongly recommend Cuisinart food processors. The one we got is still in use, works like new and indeed survived the trip from the USA to Brazil.

Your bag may have been manually inspected even if they didn't scan it.
Some customs officer probably picked it up and said something like "This thing feels like someone packed a food processor in it?!!"